Gabor Maté on Jordan Peterson

[Lou Gold]

I would agree with Gabor. What strikes me about Peterson is not what he is saying, but how he is saying it, his psychological and spiritual/energetic state. He speaks about meaning, faith, love and peace, but the spiritual "wavelength" of this message is so toxic, it's full of rage and anger and that is why I just cannot listen to him. But that's only my personal opinion

Well, this sentiment baffles my mind. It cannot be reasonably inferred from any of his full-length lectures or interviews. Even when he started to 'fly off the handle' a bit in those, he quickly regained composure. And that seems to be the consensus by everyone who speaks with him, such as Dr. Gad Saad (who, for my money, is a much more insightful psychologist than Dr. Mate, but that's a separate issue).

"Repressed anger", storing and channeling energy of cold rage (instead of constantly blowing your fuse in 'outrage culture', which is very toxic especially as mass culture) is very deep and interesting dynamic, deep source of creativity. So I don't take Mate's view on JP as negative and hostile, on the contrary this brings to mind this version of the story of two wolves:



JP has been on a fascinating spiritual journey, with wonderful ability to share some fruits of his journey with millions of people in a positive way.

There are many versions of this story in quite disparate traditions. In the Haudenosaunee story the most feared and most brutal chief of among the warring tribes is given the status of chief-among-chiefs under the new pact of peace. In the "love thy enemy" Christian version of Saint Francis and the Wolf of Gubbio the wolf who had terrorized the margins of the town is tamed with the promise of being loved, brought to live in the town and adored by the people who feed him. But it's never without contradictions. As the Eskimos say, "Gifts turn wolves into dogs." Bottom line: the search for balance between domesticated and wild, responsible and free is an ongoing aspect of creation, which is both constructive and destructive.

[SanteriSatama]

"Repressed anger", storing and channeling energy of cold rage (instead of constantly blowing your fuse in 'outrage culture', which is very toxic especially as mass culture) is very deep and interesting dynamic, deep source of creativity. So I don't take Mate's view on JP as negative and hostile, on the contrary this brings to mind this version of the story of two wolves:

There are still other not so damaging ways (in addition to repressing or "blowing your fuse in 'outrage culture'"), such as is facing, embracing and healing the shadow by finding other ways to release their energies without damaging actions or "blowing our fuses". For example, non-dual practices of releasing and getting insights into the depths of our shadows while maintaining the state of lucid awareness, or letting them to express themselves in art or creativity, or there may be other ways.

JP is high tension, which we hear in his voice and he's open and honest about that himself. "Anger" is very generic and simplifying term for that tension, but not necessarily untrue. It's also true that JP has been criticized by other Jungian therapists for not being in therapy himself, as is the custom. Shadow is not only a simple mechanism, but an endless layering of worlds to explore in art, shamanic journeys etc. to balance light and darkness. JP has tripped bipolar "spiritual alchemy" in epic big way, after the height of his speaking tour around the world, speaking from the flow zone to hooked audience almost every day, to the low of his benzo addiction and his horrible withdrawal struggle. Benzo addiction was not personal level but collective level shadow stuff of western psychotherapy, which JP professionally represents in his own way.

There is important difference between worrying and caring, but either case, the source of "anger" is often the perceived injustice and unnecessary suffering in the world and underlying empathy and compassion. Healer's obsession is in tension with advaita full acceptance of 'as is'; which needs to accept also the tension and obsession to heal, accept our caring and the various dualisms etc. relations of care.

[Lou Gold]

There is important difference between worrying and caring, but either case, the source of "anger" is often the perceived injustice and unnecessary suffering in the world and underlying empathy and compassion. Healer's obsession is in tension with advaita full acceptance of 'as is'; which needs to accept also the tension and obsession to heal, accept our caring and the various dualisms etc. relations of care.

It is said that "expectations are the formulae for resentments."

[Peter Jones]

Hi Peter ... Nice to see you checking in to the new venue. Not sure what you're referring to that JP 'doesn't get', since there are others here who clearly feel that he 'gets' quite a bit. Perhaps you could be more specific.

Thanks for the welcome.

I meant that JP doesn't 'get' philosophy, mysticism or truth. From your quote it seems that Gabor does.

[AshvinP]

Hi Peter ... Nice to see you checking in to the new venue. Not sure what you're referring to that JP 'doesn't get', since there are others here who clearly feel that he 'gets' quite a bit. Perhaps you could be more specific.

Thanks for the welcome.

I meant that JP doesn't 'get' philosophy, mysticism or truth. From your quote it seems that Gabor does.

And you're basing that on what, your extensive review of all his lectures or the fact that his philosophy doesn't agree with yours?

[Peter Jones]

Hi Peter ... Nice to see you checking in to the new venue. Not sure what you're referring to that JP 'doesn't get', since there are others here who clearly feel that he 'gets' quite a bit. Perhaps you could be more specific.

Thanks for the welcome.

I meant that JP doesn't 'get' philosophy, mysticism or truth. From your quote it seems that Gabor does.

And you're basing that on what, your extensive review of all his lectures or the fact that his philosophy doesn't agree with yours?

Is it not obvious that JP doesn't understand philosophy or mysticism? It doesn't take much expertise to spot this. I'm basing my view on what seems perfectly obvious.

That little extract from Gabor reveals his much better understanding.

[Soul_of_Shu]

Peter ... so what is your take then on the latest JP topic thread, wherein it seems your claim is not so obvious ... viewtopic.php?f=5&t=203

[AshvinP]

Thanks for the welcome.

I meant that JP doesn't 'get' philosophy, mysticism or truth. From your quote it seems that Gabor does.

And you're basing that on what, your extensive review of all his lectures or the fact that his philosophy doesn't agree with yours?

Is it not obvious that JP doesn't understand philosophy or mysticism? It doesn't take much expertise to spot this. I'm basing my view on what seems perfectly obvious.

That little extract from Gabor reveals his much better understanding.

Not only is not obvious, it's the exact opposite conclusion I reach when considering his body of work. With regards to philosophy at least, who knows or cares about "mysticism", whatever that means.

[Peter Jones]

Not only is not obvious, it's the exact opposite conclusion I reach when considering his body of work. With regards to philosophy at least, who knows or cares about "mysticism", whatever that means.

Ah. If this is your approach I wouldn't expect you to understand what I;m talking about.

I wonder what brings you to this forum, Speaking roughly, mysticism is non-dualism, which is what BK is selling.



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[Peter Jones]

Peter ... so what is your take then on the latest JP topic thread, wherein it seems your claim is not so obvious ... viewtopic.php?f=5&t=203

Not my thing, I'm afraid, since I don't want read his book. I agree with much of what he says about politics and psychology, but he is not a philosopher and doesn't appear to understand the subject. I find his views on religion shallow and naive. I do I admire his willingness to stand up and be counted on some difficult issues. .