How Many 'Alters' Per 'Organism'?

[Lou Gold]

What is missing is that by focusing on any spectrum where the extremes become more apparent (higher, lower, left, right, whatever) the obvious sweet spot of integration is often missed. It is at the intersection of vertical and the horizontal where child-of-God and child-of-man and self and other all meet that the conflicts, tensions and extremes vanish into a peace that passeth understanding and one is launched off the cross. All else is commentary,

PS: Why is death lower?

These are the Great Poles of existence. The whole and the many. Clearly life manifests alternating between these. What I said in the other thread refers to this archetypal axis. Up is integration, harmony. Down is dissipation, ultimately leading to unconsciousness. I assume you ask this question because you are thinking about the Gate of Death, which is something different. It is being born in the spiritual world - as a butterfly casts down the chrysalis, so does man casts down the mineral shell. We've spoken many times that things are not monotonic - everything is rhythms within rhythms. After death we move up the vertical then we dive down again. Going into incarnation is actually submerging towards the realm of death, where our physical being is constantly threatened by dissolution. This is being constantly balanced by the life (etheric) forces. Actually, what we perceive with our senses is only the mineral realm. Without spiritual training we don't perceive the etheric, astral, mental, etc. forces. We are preoccupied with what represent death. That's why science, naturally, sees everything as dead and tries to explain life as the patterns which what is dead makes on its tumbling downhill. We admire the beauty of Nature, of plants, animals and humans but interestingly, what we see with our eyes is actually the part of life that has already become dead. The processes and forms in the etheric realm are infinitely more beautiful and vibrant. In comparison, the mineral forms are only their rigid, sclerotized versions.

So as you see, things are not simple. It's not only talking about multi-aspect, multi-direction processes. We need to recognize all these processes at their proper place. And this is not that easy. We have to constantly make effort to see things from many different angles. There's no convenient intellectual point of view that captures all at once, just as there's no 3D perspective that shows all sides of an object at the same time. The sweet spot you mention sounds more like finding the 'center of mass' of all that exists and observe life unfolding from there. But this center of mass is itself moving and its of the utmost importance to be aware of its direction. Otherwise it'll be impossible to conceive that the existence of disease is only a temporary stage. To say that too much health is dangerous implies that the Earth was created once and for all, with both noble and vicious beasts and things won't ever change, so it's in our best interest to learn and live with them. But things are always transforming. What is now our immune system won't be needed in the same form in the future. Then this task will be taken on by the aura. It's our spiritual skin that doesn't allow anything harmful (ideas, desires, beings, etc.) to enter. As said last time, man today suffers from disease because he is intermingled with the spiritual beings of disease. This is what makes it possible for the physical pathogens to take foot in the human body. When the soul becomes a Spring of Divine Life, it constantly purges all that is dark and harmful and becomes filled with what is beneficial for all Life. Then the immune system evolves into a spiritual immune system - our fully conscious discernment of what is beneficial and what is harmful for Life. Obviously we have a long way to go in that direction but if we don't recognize the direction we'll never reach there. It is this direction that is envisioned when it's said:

Mark 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
Luke 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

OK. I'm not interested in running more laps around the circles. You say, "As said last time, man today suffers from disease because he is intermingled with the spiritual beings of disease." And I say "... man today suffers from disease to the extent he is unresolved or not integrated with the spiritual beings of disease." I very much like the Rainer Maria Rilke quote, “Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love.” that Ashvin uses as a signature.

BTW, I don't see death as something lower. Like birth, I see it as a passage. You say, We are preoccupied with what represent death. That's why science, naturally, sees everything as dead and tries to explain life as the patterns which what is dead makes on its tumbling downhill. We admire the beauty of Nature, of plants, animals and humans but interestingly, what we see with our eyes is actually the part of life that has already become dead. The processes and forms in the etheric realm are infinitely more beautiful and vibrant. In comparison, the mineral forms are only their rigid, sclerotized versions. I presume you mean that 'you' rather than 'we' have had the direct experience of seeing things this way. If you have, then I understand why you speak as you do. I do not. I see the tree as a tree and do not see true science as obligated to focus on dead objects. I further see that on either side of the incarnate/disincarnate line, my mission is to see with as much appreciation as possible in an ongoing process. I'm happy with this.

[Cleric K]

The simple fact of physical light is that it comes from the past, all you see that way is already history.

Yes.
Interestingly, if we take GR seriously, light doesn't experience time. From the point of view of the photon it is at the source and destination at the same time This is another aspect of the metaphor - what we experience in light is 'phase relationships' between states of being. This is true as for physical light, so for spiritual.

Beauty is in the eye / eyes of the beholder.

This is a relative truth
There's a Russian saying: "на вкус и на цвет товарищей нет" (na vkús i na cvet továriščej net), literally: "In tastes and colors there are no friends". This reflects the basic truth that human beings are very different and if one is predisposed to like blue and another - red - they'll never come to common opinion.
Yet things are different when we enter the spiritual realm. As we undress our lower nature, with it we also undress the filtering mechanism that makes us like one thing and dislike another. Beauty is a living essence in the spiritual domain. It's pure being. What is different in ordinary life is that within the labyrinth of the bodily sheaths, this essence is being filtered differently for different persons, based on their predispositions. Divine Life is permeated with this essence of beauty through and through and this is an objective fact for spiritual perception. Anywhere we can perceive harmonious and prolific relationships between beings, we find there also the essence of beauty as a kind of 'glue'. And the contrary - anywhere we see beings clashing and devouring each other, the essence is missing. The void in the place of the missing beauty is experienced as something real and we call it ugliness. Please don't take this in any judgmental way. What I said above should have already made clear that. As incarnated beings we are biased based on our subconscious sympathies and antipathies. But, as all genuine spiritual traditions advise, we should search for the beautiful in everything, even if currently it is only in very germinal form (Andersen's "The ugly duckling").

OK. I'm not interested in running more laps around the circles. You say, "As said last time, man today suffers from disease because he is intermingled with the spiritual beings of disease." And I say "... man today suffers from disease to the extent he is unresolved or not integrated with the spiritual beings of disease." I very much like the Rainer Maria Rilke quote, “Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love.” that Ashvin uses as a signature.

What you are missing above is that there's a transformation of the dragon into princess. They may share common essential nature but in their manifest state they are not the same thing. If you try to integrate the dragon it will simply devour you. If you invite thieves and murderers in your home they'll say "what a fool!", they'll beat you up to death, take all your possessions and go look for their next victim. On the other hand if we are united with the Sun, as they approach they'll say "This light is burning! This one has powerful allies, we're no match for them." Then they step back, look around and as they don't see anyone else to jump onto, they say "Things are looking grim for us, we'll soon starve to death. Maybe it's time to change our profession". And that's how these beings cast down their dragon nature and resurrect in their princess nature. We acted with courage and Love, not in order to destroy them but to help them transform on the path of their own evolution in the same way they acted as motivating factor for ours. If we simply allow them to feast on our flesh and soul, in the act of 'loving integration', neither we will improve our situation, nor they'll feel the least motivation to change.

I'm not interested in running circles either. Now I think it's beyond any reasonable doubt that we simply have different views on the nature of evolution, evil and the method of its transformation (transformation, not destruction). And that's fine by me. If you have questions I'll gladly answer but I don't think I'll be able to make thing more clear than this. So as you say, may all be good and everyone keep Loving in the way they feel most natural With much respect and Love <3

[Lou Gold]

I'm not interested in running circles either. Now I think it's beyond any reasonable doubt that we simply have different views on the nature of evolution, evil and the method of its transformation (transformation, not destruction). And that's fine by me. If you have questions I'll gladly answer but I don't think I'll be able to make thing more clear than this. So as you say, may all be good and everyone keep Loving in the way they feel most natural With much respect and Love <3

Yup. The difference is really about who or what is to be transformed. In your formulation, the battle is with badness out there whereas, in my view, the whole transformation takes place within myself. Different views for sure. With much respect, so be it. God loves God and there is nothing outside of God. If you don't wanna be as God, keep fighting. If you wanna be, then start loving.

[Eugene I]

Beauty is a living essence in the spiritual domain. It's pure being. What is different in ordinary life is that within the labyrinth of the bodily sheaths, this essence is being filtered differently for different persons, based on their predispositions. Divine Life is permeated with this essence of beauty through and through and this is an objective fact for spiritual perception. Anywhere we can perceive harmonious and prolific relationships between beings, we find there also the essence of beauty as a kind of 'glue'. And the contrary - anywhere we see beings clashing and devouring each other, the essence is missing. The void in the place of the missing beauty is experienced as something real and we call it ugliness. Please don't take this in any judgmental way. What I said above should have already made clear that. As incarnated beings we are biased based on our subconscious sympathies and antipathies. But, as all genuine spiritual traditions advise, we should search for the beautiful in everything, even if currently it is only in very germinal form (Andersen's "The ugly duckling").

WOW, I absolutely agree Cleric. I usually don't talk about it in philosophical discussions, but personally for me my life is about searching for beauty and creating beauty, in music specifically, but also everywhere else. Beauty escapes any rational descriptions so it is futile to try to rationalize and dissect it, but there is definitely something absolute about its nature.

[Lou Gold]

Beauty is a living essence in the spiritual domain. It's pure being. What is different in ordinary life is that within the labyrinth of the bodily sheaths, this essence is being filtered differently for different persons, based on their predispositions. Divine Life is permeated with this essence of beauty through and through and this is an objective fact for spiritual perception. Anywhere we can perceive harmonious and prolific relationships between beings, we find there also the essence of beauty as a kind of 'glue'. And the contrary - anywhere we see beings clashing and devouring each other, the essence is missing. The void in the place of the missing beauty is experienced as something real and we call it ugliness. Please don't take this in any judgmental way. What I said above should have already made clear that. As incarnated beings we are biased based on our subconscious sympathies and antipathies. But, as all genuine spiritual traditions advise, we should search for the beautiful in everything, even if currently it is only in very germinal form (Andersen's "The ugly duckling").

WOW, I absolutely agree Cleric. I usually don't talk about it in philosophical discussions, but personally for me my life is about searching for beauty and creating beauty, in music specifically, but also everywhere else. Beauty escapes any rational descriptions so it is futile to try to rationalize and dissect it, but there is definitely something absolute about its nature.

Add me to the agreement. May all walk in beauty.

[AshvinP]

What you are missing above is that there's a transformation of the dragon into princess. They may share common essential nature but in their manifest state they are not the same thing. If you try to integrate the dragon it will simply devour you. If you invite thieves and murderers in your home they'll say "what a fool!", they'll beat you up to death, take all your possessions and go look for their next victim. On the other hand if we are united with the Sun, as they approach they'll say "This light is burning! This one has powerful allies, we're no match for them." Then they step back, look around and as they don't see anyone else to jump onto, they say "Things are looking grim for us, we'll soon starve to death. Maybe it's time to change our profession". And that's how these beings cast down their dragon nature and resurrect in their princess nature. We acted with courage and Love, not in order to destroy them but to help them transform on the path of their own evolution in the same way they acted as motivating factor for ours. If we simply allow them to feast on our flesh and soul, in the act of 'loving integration', neither we will improve our situation, nor they'll feel the least motivation to change.

What you write here made me think about Imagine Dragons and this song "zero", which is now stuck in my head, so maybe I can get it stuck in yours too

Imagine Dragons - Zero

"I find it hard to say the things I want to say the most
Find a little bit of steady as I get close
Find a balance in the middle of the chaos
Send me low, send me high, send me never demigod
I remember walking in the cold of November
Hoping that I make it to the end of December
Twenty-seven years and the end of my mind, but
Holding to the thought of another time, but
Looking to the ways of the ones before me
Looking for the path of the young and lonely
I don't want to hear about what to do
I don't want to do it just to do it for you

Hello, hello
Let me tell you what it's like to be a zero, zero
Let me show you what it's like to always feel, feel
Like I'm empty and there's nothing really real, real
I'm looking for a way out"

[Lou Gold]

Beauty is a living essence in the spiritual domain. It's pure being. What is different in ordinary life is that within the labyrinth of the bodily sheaths, this essence is being filtered differently for different persons, based on their predispositions. Divine Life is permeated with this essence of beauty through and through and this is an objective fact for spiritual perception. Anywhere we can perceive harmonious and prolific relationships between beings, we find there also the essence of beauty as a kind of 'glue'. And the contrary - anywhere we see beings clashing and devouring each other, the essence is missing. The void in the place of the missing beauty is experienced as something real and we call it ugliness. Please don't take this in any judgmental way. What I said above should have already made clear that. As incarnated beings we are biased based on our subconscious sympathies and antipathies. But, as all genuine spiritual traditions advise, we should search for the beautiful in everything, even if currently it is only in very germinal form (Andersen's "The ugly duckling").

WOW, I absolutely agree Cleric. I usually don't talk about it in philosophical discussions, but personally for me my life is about searching for beauty and creating beauty, in music specifically, but also everywhere else. Beauty escapes any rational descriptions so it is futile to try to rationalize and dissect it, but there is definitely something absolute about its nature.

Add me to the agreement. May all walk in beauty.

Strangely or synchronously, not long after adding myself to the agreement I wondered about "anywhere we see beings clashing and devouring each other, the essence is missing. The void in the place of the missing beauty is experienced as something real and we call it ugliness." Is this really an ugliness or might it actually be intimately linked to the beauty we call life itself, which may be already dead? Consider this video, which makes the mysteriousness of quantum physics seem comparatively simple. It seems to me that the search for beauty in everything, really means in everything. Bottom line: I suspect that the so-called void or gap in beauty exists in our own obfuscated awareness rather than in reality.

[Lou Gold]

Eugene,

This one made me think of you...

[Cleric K]

Stating the following with no intent to retrigger a circle Just as opinion.

Near the Cosmic Singularity all oscillations are unfoldment of creative potential. We can imagine (this is slightly metaphorical) that the beings around the Singularity are of such character that what one does, immediately reverberates through everything else. It's like making a move in fluid - you can't move just one particle, if you move one, everything moves in turn. Imagine this as a creative arena of pure Idea (no planets, no bodies), where whatever you do, always turns out as beautiful music. The reason is that when you play a note, all other beings immediately accommodate it in fluid like manner. And vice versa - when other beings play a note, it reverberates in you and inspires in you everything that is in accord with it.

As we move away from the Singularity it can be said that the time delay between acts and perceived effects increases. This gives the the possibility for much more complex experiences because what the beings do, has effect with different amounts of 'delay' and as a result we have superimposed effects of different origins (as a very crude analogy imagine loop based musical performance). The effect of this is that the being's consciousness 'shrinks' in respect to the overall world. It experiences a complex superimposed interplay of rhythmic processes but this comes at the price that it is now becoming impossible to perceive the whole cosmic process as something holistic, as unitary harmony. If the complex superimposed rhythms get even more out-of-phase, the feeling for any wholeness can be lost altogether. Now beings can experience themselves as isolated chords and they no longer feel their resonant relationships with the Harmony of the Spheres. From this moment on the conditions for evil are present. Not because the beings are inherently evil but because they lose their context and now they are working on their own chord without awareness how it fits within the overall Harmony.

When the mineralization of life began, this process was already quite advanced. Actually the very process of mineralization is a consequence of it - small chords of elemental consciousness who experience themselves as private singularities. What we can find in DNA bears imprints of life even before the mineralization process, while it was still purely etheric. But even at that time there were already beings out of touch with the Harmony and were already becoming parasitic to other life. As the mineralization process continued, these different etheric life forms become the different biological species - including viruses, bacteria, etc.

So you are correct - beauty is concealed in everything. All life originates as moving away from the Singularity into exploration of the complex superimposed rhythms. As explained in the beginning, at the vicinity of the Singularity the primal beings are so tightly interrelated that whatever they do it always results in harmony and beauty. As other beings move away to experience more complex superimposed combinations of the primordial rhythms, their life and consciousness become respectively more diversified and complex but it still inherits the primordial Harmony - thus this life is fully symbiotic. It is still a fact that whatever one being does, even though it reverberates in much more manifold way with everything else, it still is beneficial for all, it still results in overall harmony. Only when the beings become so disconnected from the Harmony that they no longer experience it within themselves, they find it possible to explore chords that even though they benefit them, may turn out to be harmful to other beings.

So in this sense all pathological and predatory organisms proceed from earlier etheric and astral symbiotic life. On day all life will return to its symbiotic roots, as chords within the Great Harmony. So that's why there's a princess hidden even in covid but it will take time to awaken that princess to the Cosmic Harmony. Meanwhile we have to start working from ourselves because if we can't reconnect to the Harmony ourselves - the only thing that we more or less have control over - how can we expect to reconnect anything else.

[Lou Gold]

Stating the following with no intent to retrigger a circle Just as opinion.

Near the Cosmic Singularity all oscillations are unfoldment of creative potential. We can imagine (this is slightly metaphorical) that the beings around the Singularity are of such character that what one does, immediately reverberates through everything else. It's like making a move in fluid - you can't move just one particle, if you move one, everything moves in turn. Imagine this as a creative arena of pure Idea (no planets, no bodies), where whatever you do, always turns out as beautiful music. The reason is that when you play a note, all other beings immediately accommodate it in fluid like manner. And vice versa - when other beings play a note, it reverberates in you and inspires in you everything that is in accord with it.

As we move away from the Singularity it can be said that the time delay between acts and perceived effects increases. This gives the the possibility for much more complex experiences because what the beings do, has effect with different amounts of 'delay' and as a result we have superimposed effects of different origins (as a very crude analogy imagine loop based musical performance). The effect of this is that the being's consciousness 'shrinks' in respect to the overall world. It experiences a complex superimposed interplay of rhythmic processes but this comes at the price that it is now becoming impossible to perceive the whole cosmic process as something holistic, as unitary harmony. If the complex superimposed rhythms get even more out-of-phase, the feeling for any wholeness can be lost altogether. Now beings can experience themselves as isolated chords and they no longer feel their resonant relationships with the Harmony of the Spheres. From this moment on the conditions for evil are present. Not because the beings are inherently evil but because they lose their context and now they are working on their own chord without awareness how it fits within the overall Harmony.

When the mineralization of life began, this process was already quite advanced. Actually the very process of mineralization is a consequence of it - small chords of elemental consciousness who experience themselves as private singularities. What we can find in DNA bears imprints of life even before the mineralization process, while it was still purely etheric. But even at that time there were already beings out of touch with the Harmony and were already becoming parasitic to other life. As the mineralization process continued, these different etheric life forms become the different biological species - including viruses, bacteria, etc.

So you are correct - beauty is concealed in everything. All life originates as moving away from the Singularity into exploration of the complex superimposed rhythms. As explained in the beginning, at the vicinity of the Singularity the primal beings are so tightly interrelated that whatever they do it always results in harmony and beauty. As other beings move away to experience more complex superimposed combinations of the primordial rhythms, their life and consciousness become respectively more diversified and complex but it still inherits the primordial Harmony - thus this life is fully symbiotic. It is still a fact that whatever one being does, even though it reverberates in much more manifold way with everything else, it still is beneficial for all, it still results in overall harmony. Only when the beings become so disconnected from the Harmony that they no longer experience it within themselves, they find it possible to explore chords that even though they benefit them, may turn out to be harmful to other beings.

So in this sense all pathological and predatory organisms proceed from earlier etheric and astral symbiotic life. On day all life will return to its symbiotic roots, as chords within the Great Harmony. So that's why there's a princess hidden even in covid but it will take time to awaken that princess to the Cosmic Harmony. Meanwhile we have to start working from ourselves because if we can't reconnect to the Harmony ourselves - the only thing that we more or less have control over - how can we expect to reconnect anything else.

OK, no re-circling. I actually do see much similarity between the Great Mysteriousness and the Great Harmony and, yes indeed, it does function in musical loops as this harmonic tour de force reveals:



On balance, I'm grateful to Bernardo Kastrup for analogizing Dissociated Identity Disorder as an apt description of the problem and to Jacob Collier for performing the potentials of Divinely Integrated Diversity. My spirit advisor often tells me, "it's a choice." However, Karma and Grace surely are part of the play.