Re: Christianity and Metaphysics - Jordan Peterson interviews Jonathan Pageau
Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 5:26 pm
by SanteriSatama
AshvinP wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 5:16 pm
I would say the most significant difference is what BK makes a compelling case for in his new book, which is that Jung was a metaphysical idealist for all intents and purposes. All kinds of implications for the psychic possibilities of humanity flow downstream from that.
Water flows down stream, rains upstream. Metaphysical positions can be derived and denied also from ethical axioms. It's often a matter of character whether we consider the practical or the theoretical aspect more significant.
Re: Christianity and Metaphysics - Jordan Peterson interviews Jonathan Pageau
AshvinP wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 5:16 pm
I would say the most significant difference is what BK makes a compelling case for in his new book, which is that Jung was a metaphysical idealist for all intents and purposes. All kinds of implications for the psychic possibilities of humanity flow downstream from that.
Water flows down stream, rains upstream. Metaphysical positions can be derived and denied also from ethical axioms. It's often a matter of character whether we consider the practical or the theoretical aspect more significant.
There is plenty practical about metaphysical positions. They provide the context for assessing our experience of states such as 'anxiety', sometimes suggesting questions we never would have otherwise thought of asking. As JP often remarks, the question is not "why are we anxious animals?", but rather, "how is it that we are not anxious all the time"? A materialist scarcely knows to even ask that question, let alone provide a reasonably convincing answer.
Re: Christianity and Metaphysics - Jordan Peterson interviews Jonathan Pageau
AshvinP wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 5:16 pm
I would say the most significant difference is what BK makes a compelling case for in his new book, which is that Jung was a metaphysical idealist for all intents and purposes. All kinds of implications for the psychic possibilities of humanity flow downstream from that.
Water flows down stream, rains upstream. Metaphysical positions can be derived and denied also from ethical axioms. It's often a matter of character whether we consider the practical or the theoretical aspect more significant.
There is plenty practical about metaphysical positions. They provide the context for assessing our experience of states such as 'anxiety', sometimes suggesting questions we never would have otherwise thought of asking. As JP often remarks, the question is not "why are we anxious animals?", but rather, "how is it that we are not anxious all the time"? A materialist scarcely knows to even ask that question, let alone provide a reasonably convincing answer.
As JP often remarks, the question is not "why are we anxious animals?", but rather, "how is it that we are not anxious all the time"?
And GM compassionately inquires, not about why we are anxious but instead about why the pain about which we are justifiably anxious?
Re: Christianity and Metaphysics - Jordan Peterson interviews Jonathan Pageau
Water flows down stream, rains upstream. Metaphysical positions can be derived and denied also from ethical axioms. It's often a matter of character whether we consider the practical or the theoretical aspect more significant.
There is plenty practical about metaphysical positions. They provide the context for assessing our experience of states such as 'anxiety', sometimes suggesting questions we never would have otherwise thought of asking. As JP often remarks, the question is not "why are we anxious animals?", but rather, "how is it that we are not anxious all the time"? A materialist scarcely knows to even ask that question, let alone provide a reasonably convincing answer.
As JP often remarks, the question is not "why are we anxious animals?", but rather, "how is it that we are not anxious all the time"?
And GM compassionately inquires, not about why we are anxious but instead about why the pain about which we are justifiably anxious?
Exactly, and I would find it impractical to respond, "the Universe is a painful place and that's just the way it is, but don't worry...your pain and anxiety will end when you die". That's a good example of where the metaphysical can become very practical.
Re: Christianity and Metaphysics - Jordan Peterson interviews Jonathan Pageau
There is plenty practical about metaphysical positions. They provide the context for assessing our experience of states such as 'anxiety', sometimes suggesting questions we never would have otherwise thought of asking. As JP often remarks, the question is not "why are we anxious animals?", but rather, "how is it that we are not anxious all the time"? A materialist scarcely knows to even ask that question, let alone provide a reasonably convincing answer.
As JP often remarks, the question is not "why are we anxious animals?", but rather, "how is it that we are not anxious all the time"?
And GM compassionately inquires, not about why we are anxious but instead about why the pain about which we are justifiably anxious?
Exactly, and I would find it impractical to respond, "the Universe is a painful place and that's just the way it is, but don't worry...your pain and anxiety will end when you die". That's a good example of where the metaphysical can become very practical.
That's a good example of where the metaphysical can become very practical.
Please elaborate. I don't follow your drift. As a lawyer, would you say that when seeing that a pain is caused by an injustice?
Re: Christianity and Metaphysics - Jordan Peterson interviews Jonathan Pageau
And GM compassionately inquires, not about why we are anxious but instead about why the pain about which we are justifiably anxious?
Exactly, and I would find it impractical to respond, "the Universe is a painful place and that's just the way it is, but don't worry...your pain and anxiety will end when you die". That's a good example of where the metaphysical can become very practical.
That's a good example of where the metaphysical can become very practical.
Please elaborate. I don't follow your drift. As a lawyer, would you say that when seeing that a pain is caused by an injustice?
I don't really follow your drift either. I was just continuing the topic of whether theoretical metaphysical issues can also have practical benefits in our lives. When a person is in chronic pain, depression, anxiety, etc., I would say most definitely.
Re: Christianity and Metaphysics - Jordan Peterson interviews Jonathan Pageau
Exactly, and I would find it impractical to respond, "the Universe is a painful place and that's just the way it is, but don't worry...your pain and anxiety will end when you die". That's a good example of where the metaphysical can become very practical.
That's a good example of where the metaphysical can become very practical.
Please elaborate. I don't follow your drift. As a lawyer, would you say that when seeing that a pain is caused by an injustice?
I don't really follow your drift either. I was just continuing the topic of whether theoretical metaphysical issues can also have practical benefits in our lives. When a person is in chronic pain, depression, anxiety, etc., I would say most definitely.
Oh, yes! Metaphysics can be practical and helpful. I was adding that identifying and doing something about the pain that is rationally causing anxiety is equally important.
Re: Christianity and Metaphysics - Jordan Peterson interviews Jonathan Pageau
Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:28 pm
by Soul_of_Shu
Yet another recent conversation between Tim Ferriss and JP may also be of pertinent interest here. In this one covering rules for life, psychedelics, the Bible, and much more, at around the 40 minute mark they get into the idea of psychedelic-induced ontological shock, wherein the fundamental nature of reality comes into question ...
Re: Christianity and Metaphysics - Jordan Peterson interviews Jonathan Pageau
Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:08 pm
by AshvinP
Soul_of_Shu wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:28 pm
Yet another recent conversation between Tim Ferriss and JP may also be of pertinent interest here. In this one covering rules for life, psychedelics, the Bible, and much more, at around the 40 minute mark they get into the idea of psychedelic-induced ontological shock, wherein the fundamental nature of reality comes into question ..
Nice. I love that phrase, "ontological shock". And this quote - "everyone is an unconscious proponent of some dead philosopher". So true. It sounds like Nietzsche, but JP said it may be Whitehead.
Also, it looks like BK is game for a discussion with Pageau, and Mark Vernon may be able to mix it up in there too.
Re: Christianity and Metaphysics - Jordan Peterson interviews Jonathan Pageau
Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:40 pm
by Soul_of_Shu
That conversation with Pageau would be most welcome, and down the road perhaps others with Vervaeke, Vernon, Jordan Hall, the Thoughts on Thinking channel, and the list goes on, where we would get BK imaginatively engaging in the same way as he did with his 'Inception Dialogues' in the early days of his YT channel, going beyond a strict focus on explaining analytical idealism.
