More/Less Mathematics

Any topics primarily focused on metaphysics can be discussed here, in a generally casual way, where conversations may take unexpected turns.
SanteriSatama
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Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:07 pm

Re: More/Less Mathematics

Post by SanteriSatama »

ScottRoberts wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:55 am Sorry, but the idea that you can get to the conventional meaning of e from "more-more" is completely confounding to me.
Well, "more than more" and "less than less" is a very simple way of expressing the difference between lines and curves, don't you think?

As for i as the half-circle image, Relop does not start from imagining something in the frame of Cartesian coordinate system. And neither does a Turing machine.

Relop is as simple as can be. The main difficulty is learning away from unnecessarily complex conditioning of thought patterns.

Can't promise a text-book, but as you wish and no problems. :)
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Martin_
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Re: More/Less Mathematics

Post by Martin_ »

Mabne my excessive training in classical mathematics makes it harder to grasp this.
I'm trying, but no success...

Anyway, Santeri; you have me intrigued, but i still don't get it.

On another (old) note
What about some randomly picked binary ZFC real numbers, can your divine omniscience also tell does the sum of 0,000... + 0,000... start with 1 or 0?
Let me try, and I'd expect you to tell me where I went wrong, because this is too simple ...
0.001 > 0.000...
thus 0.1 > 0.01 = 0.001+0.001 > 0.000... + 0.000..

thus. the sum starts with 0.

QED.

or were you talking about the first digit to the right ?
"I don't understand." /Unknown
SanteriSatama
Posts: 1030
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:07 pm

Re: More/Less Mathematics

Post by SanteriSatama »

Martin_ wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 2:46 am Mabne my excessive training in classical mathematics makes it harder to grasp this.
I'm trying, but no success...

Anyway, Santeri; you have me intrigued, but i still don't get it.

On another (old) note
What about some randomly picked binary ZFC real numbers, can your divine omniscience also tell does the sum of 0,000... + 0,000... start with 1 or 0?
Let me try, and I'd expect you to tell me where I went wrong, because this is too simple ...
0.001 > 0.000...
thus 0.1 > 0.01 = 0.001+0.001 > 0.000... + 0.000..

thus. the sum starts with 0.

QED.

or were you talking about the first digit to the right ?

I was talking about even more simple school math addition and carry rule from the right, when the numerical strings are not constructible (Axiom of Choice as a kind of random generator of numerals) and we don't know whether a 1 pops up in a binary string or not.

0,000...
0.000...(1?)

This is a very simpleminded example, but goes to the heart of the ZFC consistency problem that was discussed. For a better demonstration of carry rule problems or real numbers, and how the situation is different on the p-adic/revercimal side, see:



Euler's doubly infinite identity is quite a thing! :)

Thanks for your comment, I had forgotten this old Youtube comment to the video above with a link to a very baby idea:
https://steemit.com/programming/@id-ent ... currencies

As for the pi, e, i discussion, Relop intuition of Eagle as a landscape of pi approaching the deep relation from idea of sphere. I've made some progress on how various Stern-Brocot -type generators of 'Polyrationals' could relate to structure of sphere/ball. Perhaps more about those later.
SanteriSatama
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Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:07 pm

Re: More/Less Mathematics

Post by SanteriSatama »

This clarifies quite a lot, also why "Turing-machine i-dentity element", ie. Empty space between characters and words, has natural interpretation as i-maginary in the complex plane, when Empty is also the i-nverse operation between a palindromic expression.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambert_W_function

SanteriSatama
Posts: 1030
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:07 pm

Re: More/Less Mathematics

Post by SanteriSatama »

The polar axis of the Pillar, starting from above, can be defined as evolution of identity elements:
< >
<0>
<0>
<0>
<<1>>
This can be identified as the Gabriel's Horn, with volume defined as π.



The outer surface of the horn grows both less and more, as it is being painted with polyrationals. "Paradox" solved. :)
SanteriSatama
Posts: 1030
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:07 pm

Re: More/Less Mathematics

Post by SanteriSatama »

ScottRoberts wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 1:20 am e^(iπ) + 1 = 0
Let's try another round to talk you and other people over.


Wallis' product

:::16*16*14*14*12*12*10*10*8*8*6*6*4*4*2*2
:::17*15*15*13*13*11* 11* 9* 9*7*7*5*5*3*3*1

converges towards π/2, ie. τ. The numerical relation in question is much better described by symbol τ (Greek tau, 2τ =π), as suggested by mathematically inclined Youtube artist Vihart (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iUh_CSjaSw).

Let's rewrite the product in the following form, by multiplying consecutive pairs of fractions:
:::324/323*/256/255*196/195*144/143*100/99*64/63*36/35*16/15*8/7*4/3 : τ

Corollary: The product contains also interesting sequence of Egyptian fractions:
:::(1+1/323)*(1+1/255)*(1+1/195)*(1+1/143)*(1+1/99)*(1+1/63)*(1+1/35)*(1+1/15)*(1+1/7)*(1+1/3) : τ

4 8 16 36 64 100 144 196 256 324
3 7 15 35 63 99 143 195 255 323

4 8 16 36 64 100 144 196 256 324 minus
.. 4 8 16 36 64 100 144 196 256
...4 8 20 28 36 44 52 60 68 minus
......]4 8 20 28 36 44 52 60
.......4 12 8 8 8 8 8 8 divided by 4
........1 3 2 2 2 2 2 2

4 8 16 36 64 100 144 196 256 324 minus
...3 7 15 35 63 99 143 195 255
...5 9 21 29 37 45 53 61 69 minus
........5 9 21 29 37 45 53 61
........4 12 8 8 8 8 8 8 divided by 4
.........1 3 2 2 2 2 2 2

which is https://oeis.org/A104435 (Number of ways to split 1, 2, 3, ..., 2n into 2 arithmetic progressions each with n terms.)

In order to measure a circle, a natural way is to draw a circle between equilateral triangles so that it touches both internal external triangle thrice. Hence we can define the size of a circle in relation to triangles as the meet where size the of the external triangle Te halts decreasing and the size of internal triangle Ti halts increasing, ie. where Te is neither more nore less than Ti. In relop we can write this double measurement operation in the following way:
> > < <

four operators in measuring process, insert metric of natural numbers.

>1>2<3<

The chosen metric does not act well with the basic semantics of the operators, so rewrite

<1<2<3<
>2<
>2<
>2<
etc. inpanding for more and more measurement values of nested square roots of 2 in the chosen metric, ie. Viète's formula.

Wittgenstein: ”Mathematics as such is always a measure, not the thing measured”. What is most fascinating, the pattern (4) 1 3 2 2 2 contains here in itself the general structure of measuring the relation in question with metric of natular numbers. As numerical metric for a measurement is a matter of choice and definition, we can try out the same Relop measurement also with other metric, say integers instead of natural numbers. But as this time the measurement is centered, instead of chiral, we can use the centered Relop form > > < <:
>1>0<1<

giving positive integer value 1 for τ.

For radius with numerical value 1 it takes 1 measurement turn to draw the unit circle, relation of integers 1:1. What this demonstration shows is that irrationality of π is only a relative phenomenon, depending on the choice of metric and what actual relation is being measured with what metric. Relational approach can more easily reveal and remind that measuring with centered n><n form is not necessarily very conmeasurable with measuring chirally only with L or R side of a numerical metric, and can produce fascinating and wonderful phenomena such as appearance of a transcendental π.
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