Eugene I wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:11 am
Not necessarily. The 3-person perspective is only an abstraction, do not take it literally. Of course what is implied here is some actual 1-st person
existing perspective, but just a perspective of a person
non-involved in the functioning of the system under study, an observer "external" with respect to system's boundaries, so that such perspective can be theoretically abstracted and took out of the system equations provisionally. But of course if you take it literally, then your conclusion would be correct.
Abstractions can be useful, but in this instance the abstraction of a 3rd-person perspective doesn’t modulate the underlying logic that 1st-person consciousness is indestructible and everlasting,
AshvinP wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:01 am
What about the 1st person experience of becoming aware of an experience we had which we were not aware of at the time it happened, i.e. when previously 'unconscious' contents of experience are made conscious?
That would be an example of
relative unconsciousness rather than absolute unconsciousness. The point of the thread is to demonstrate that 1st-person unconsciousness is impossible in
absolute terms, and therefore is indestructible and everlasting. Also, usage of “time” as a dominant superstructure is axiomatic. Time exists
within 1st-person consciousness, not the inverse. Or at least, that should be the assumption given that 1st-person consciousness has the capacity to defeat the Cartesian evil demon in a way that "time" cannot.
Simon Adams wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:58 pm
Even within an idealist framework, I'm not sure this is an argument for phenomenal consciousness being eternal. You may have an opinion that the big bang was the start of forms being created within a pre-existing formless realm, but I don't see how your argument proves that.
The original argument has no interest in pandering to the various unsubstantiated theories of the physicalists, but merely to lay down the foundations of what we know for certain:-
1st-person consciousness is possible.
1st-person unconsciousness is impossible.
Therefore, 1st-person consciousness is inevitable, and by extension everlasting.
Understanding this is a useful basis for exploring what the further implications of an eternal existence might be.