Eugene I wrote: ↑Mon May 03, 2021 1:49 pm
Soul_of_Shu wrote: ↑Mon May 03, 2021 1:29 pm
C'mon Eugene, have you not shared quotes from 'original' Sutras purported to be conceived by the Buddha, as opposed to say the later Heart Sutra, as the unadulterated offering on how to best dispel the spell of duality? I suggest that you can also write an eloquent essay with more of such quotes, or be more secular if so inclined, with a view toward giving an alternative perspective on this inquiry, so as to allow other forum participants to go with whichever resonates best with their own sensibilities. Being eclectically inclined, I for one find value, meaning and efficacy in both/and, or indeed with quite a few other approaches, e.g. Sufi, Shaivism, Shambhala shamanhood, Spira-esque Avaita, etc, without worrying that those who are inclined to lean one way or the other are not also valid. I suppose this is your claim, that Ashvin is claiming that other approaches must be relegated to being somehow inferior, or less efficacious, as opposed to the possibility of them all integrally supplementing and subsuming each other. However, I trust that Ashvin, in appreciating Gebser's model ~ with Gebser himself taking a highly eclectic approach, and why I feel deep affinity with his ideas ~ would understand the folly in this. If not, I'd surely be interested in hearing from him as to why such trust is unwarranted.
OK, fair enough
Regarding me writing an essay,
I already did and there is not much I can add to it.
To be honest, I also tend to be eclectic and open to a variety of approaches. Yet, I have a deep psychological trauma from living under a dictatorship, and any views promoting any dictatorship, be it political, social, philosophical or spiritual one, immediately raise a rejection response in me. But I admit that this is my personality issue and personal opinion/bias. I saw many people living in the same dictatorships with me who were very happy with it, and who am I to tell them not to be happy.
IMO there is no perfect solution. Free, libertarian and pluralistic social system is chaotic, uncontrollable, lacking common direction and common shared values. Freedom is a burden. Many people feel uncomfortable with it. Dictatorship solves (or claims to solve) those problems, but has problems of its own, and from the experiential point of living there, I can say that it feels very suffocating, even when the dictator is a good guy. Oops, I'm drifting into politics, but I'm also talking about spiritual dictatorships here.
I appreciate this disclosure, Eugene. And I do not for a second think I am immune from the same sorts of temperamental and experiential biases. That is why I believe it so important to approach these things from many different angles of thinking, i.e. psychology, philosophy, science, theology, etc., and see for ourselves what remains after being tested. Perfection should not be the enemy of the Good, but eventually some things must be settled
within ourselves to move forward productively. Spiritual
freedom is also paramount - not the ability to do whatever we want, but to
want what we actually do.
Eugene wrote:I would not think that democratic societies and dictatorships are part of the same stream and are nested with each other. They are clearly incompatible and mutually exclusive social systems, whether they exist in human or in spiritual realms. There is definitely some overlap, democratic systems always have some elements of freedom restriction, and dictatorships have some degree of freedom, and so the demarcation line is often fuzzy. Yet, this does not mean that they are "nested".
There are no spiritual "dictatorships" being referenced here. That is simply your opinion, which you of course are entitled to. Western spirituality is entirely based on the notion of the sovereign individual who must be guaranteed certain basic freedoms by virtue of being made in the
image of God. That is not always reflected well by religious sects and political parties, but nevertheless it is a fact which is clear from Biblical scripture.