Philosophy Unbound: Schopenhauer vs. Steiner (Round One)

[Soul_of_Shu]

I think I'm gonna cop-out and go with the lesser known Schroomenbäcker

[AshvinP]

So I am still on the BLUE team, and will add this consideration for others to contemplate - it dawned on me while listening to BK that Steiner's remark, "Schopenhauer wants to avoid making 'abstract thinking' the bearer of Unity in the world", is exactly right, because it is essentially a means of attacking Kant's emphasis on spiritual faith - as long as the noumenon is kept behind an impenetrable veil, one must allow for spiritual faith as the bearer of life meaning. And, if knowledge of the noumenon only comes through Thinking, then it is inescapable that a Spirit (in Western theistic sense) exists which is shared by all, now reaffirming spiritual reality based on knowledge (as Hegel did). The only way around that is to find the noumenon in the "blind" Will, which then undermines spiritual faith and spiritual knowledge in one fell swoop - a rather ingenious move, even if an extremely destructive one for Western civilization.

There is no "impenetrable veil" because the "Will" (in Schopenhauer-BK terms, even though I don't like this term because it is misleading), or Existence-Awareness in Advaitic terms, by nature IS Awareness and it is therefore directly Aware of itself, it always directly consciously experiences itself. So it is not based on faith, but on a direct experience. Now, it is called a "mystical" experience simply because most people are not aware of it (including most Western thinkers and philosophers), but realizing such experience has always been the goal and the key aspect of the Eastern spiritual traditions. This experience experientially reveals the fundamental unity of Reality in its existential and experiential aspects. There is no way to describe such experience in words or ideas, it has to be experienced directly in order to be realized. And it is exactly this Awareness-Beingness which is the bearer of unity. However, the thinking and its ideal content is also a bearer of unity simultaneously with and in addition to the unity in Existence-Awareness. We are not opposing one unity to the other and not excluding one of them, but uniting them together.

This firmly puts you in RED team. We will have time for more argument in next round. Right now giving everyone a chance to catch up and comment of they like. Thanks.

[AshvinP]

I think I'm gonna cop-out and go with the lesser known Schroomenbäcker

No shame in bowing out but we need your reasoning for any other names. I actually think Steiner talks about Schermacher (sp?) In that same passage lol, if thats who you are referring to.

[Soul_of_Shu]

I think I'm gonna cop-out and go with the lesser known Schroomenbäcker

No shame in bowing out but we need your reasoning for any other names. I actually think Steiner talks about Schermacher (sp?) In that same passage lol, if thats who you are referring to.

The 'oral' teaching of Schroomenbäcker can only be received in the presence of that wondrous mind. You may want to make a trip to Denver.

[Eugene I]

Seems like I'm the only one from the "Red team" who is not ignoring the Steiner's "Metamorphic Monstrosity"

[Soul_of_Shu]

Shu, in Egyptian mythos, is god of the air and supporter of the sky, and the sky is blue, and that rhymes with Shu, so to blue I remain poetically true ... and apparently better dead than red

[AshvinP]

Seems like I'm the only one from the "Red team" who is not ignoring the Steiner's "Metamorphic Monstrosity"

And you definitely get props for that!

To be fair, it's not the easiest philosophical topic to understand. I still have faith a few others join in once they get a chance. And you always have BK with you in Spirit.

[findingblanks]

In the following two comments by Steiner -- "As far as the will is concerned, it can be regarded only as the expression of the activity of our finite personality” and “Against these arguments it must be said that the activities of our body come to our consciousness only through percepts of the self, and that, as such, they are in no way superior to other percepts” we see that Steiner is applying false presuppositions to Schopenhauer's terms, thereby unintentionally creating a strawman of Schopenhauer that certainly can be easily burned to the ground.

[Starbuck]

[AshvinP]

In the following two comments by Steiner -- "As far as the will is concerned, it can be regarded only as the expression of the activity of our finite personality” and “Against these arguments it must be said that the activities of our body come to our consciousness only through percepts of the self, and that, as such, they are in no way superior to other percepts” we see that Steiner is applying false presuppositions to Schopenhauer's terms, thereby unintentionally creating a strawman of Schopenhauer that certainly can be easily burned to the ground.

There you go, Eugene, you picked up finding "the BK hater" blanks against all odds!