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Re: What constitutes “observation” (/“measurement”)
Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:19 pm
by SanteriSatama
Simon Adams wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:54 pm
SanteriSatama wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:12 pm
Well, if someone feels that he/she is not being felt by any sentient being, that kind of existentially deep loneliness can often lead to withering away from biological existence. That is the difference between feeling lonely, and being socially alone without feeling unfelt, feeling felt in some field of sentience. The latter we can endure fine and enjoy, the former not so well.
Also metacognitive layer seems profoundly social network of discoursive durations.
Yes I get the first part, and this is why I feel a bit frustrated with having to admit I disagree with so much of what Ashvin says about base reality, the beautiful and slightly illusional stage of the universe on which we act this life. At a higher level of meaning, yes some types of people do wither away when not being a observed. I have someone in my close family who really struggles without company for more than a couple of days. Whereas I am just as happy by myself.
On the last sentence I don’t really follow.
I don't mean only interpersonal layer, but also the loneliness where a feeling feels unfelt in and by the Spirit. Or god, as might prefer to say. Hamartia-error as such deep loneliness by imagining and creating such separation.
Metacognition I observe and speak as linguistic narration. Language is social. Also in the form of internal dialogue. Such that has the ability to create also the structure and feel of existential separation and loneliness.
Re: What constitutes “observation” (/“measurement”)
Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:00 pm
by Simon Adams
SanteriSatama wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:19 pm
I don't mean only interpersonal layer, but also the loneliness where a feeling feels unfelt in and by the Spirit. Or god, as might prefer to say. Hamartia-error as such deep loneliness by imagining and creating such separation.
Metacognition I observe and speak as linguistic narration. Language is social. Also in the form of internal dialogue. Such that has the ability to create also the structure and feel of existential separation and loneliness.
Ahh yes, I see. I do also think there is emotion without meta-cognition. There is a vast different between one of my cats especially when it's happy and when it's down, and when it's annoyed. Of course we anthropomorphise the nature of that emotion, but nonetheless, it's clearly a felt emotion. I talk to her about her feelings often, but I should probably keep that to myself....
Re: What constitutes “observation” (/“measurement”)
Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:21 pm
by SanteriSatama
Simon Adams wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:00 pm
I talk to her about her feelings often, but I should probably keep that to myself....
We too vocalize the feelings and thoughts and meanings of the dog member of our family in human language. Often just to tease and jest. I can imagine your cat talking through your mouth: "You should propably keep that to yourself..."
Re: What constitutes “observation” (/“measurement”)
Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:59 pm
by Timbgray
Yes, see also the situation of hydraencephalitic children (hydra, not hydro) who persuasively exhibit emotion but were born with no cortex.
Re: What constitutes “observation” (/“measurement”)
Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:43 pm
by Simon Adams
SanteriSatama wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:21 pm
We too vocalize the feelings and thoughts and meanings of the dog member of our family in human language. Often just to tease and jest. I can imagine your cat talking through your mouth: "You should propably keep that to yourself..."
Ventriloquism is mere child's play to the cats. The one eyed kitten has taught me to buy ping pong balls and throw them up the stairs, for her to practice various acrobatics including catching, dribbling, and throwing back. Very impressive, the football skills as well as the influence.