Study : Psychedelics can alter your beliefs about the nature of reality, away from physicalism to dualism/panpsychism

[Papanca]

What do you guys think about this ?

Abstract

"Are psychedelics able to induce lasting changes in metaphysical beliefs? While it is popularly believed that they can, this has never been systematically tested. Here we exploited a large sample derived from prospective online surveying to determine whether and how beliefs concerning the nature of reality, consciousness, and free-will, change after psychedelic use. Results revealed significant shifts away from ‘physicalist’ or ‘materialist’ views, and towards panpsychism and fatalism, post use. These changes remained detectable at 6 months, and were associated with the extent of past use and improved mental-health outcomes. Path modelling suggested that the belief-shifts were moderated by impressionability at baseline and mediated by perceived emotional synchrony with others during the psychedelic experience. The observed belief-shifts post psychedelic use were confirmed by data from an independent controlled clinical trial. Together, these findings imply that psychedelic use has a causal influence on metaphysical beliefs – shifting them away from ‘hard materialism’."

https://psyarxiv.com/f6sjk

[DandelionSoul]

I can only speak to my own experience, but, yeah that tracks. During my materialist phase, I knew about the Hard Problem and the arguments for consciousness as fundamental (I've always been a philosophy nerd) but I didn't grok it. And then I took DMT. And then I got it: nondualism, death, consciousness, all at once.

[DandelionSoul]

(Incidentally, for what it's worth, while I've tripped many times both before and after that experience, and have found them profoundly helpful for healing some deep-seated emotional difficulties, that particular experience has left DMT as the only psych that I'm scared to do again.)

[Jim Cross]

What do you guys think about this ?

Abstract

"Are psychedelics able to induce lasting changes in metaphysical beliefs? While it is popularly believed that they can, this has never been systematically tested. Here we exploited a large sample derived from prospective online surveying to determine whether and how beliefs concerning the nature of reality, consciousness, and free-will, change after psychedelic use. Results revealed significant shifts away from ‘physicalist’ or ‘materialist’ views, and towards panpsychism and fatalism, post use. These changes remained detectable at 6 months, and were associated with the extent of past use and improved mental-health outcomes. Path modelling suggested that the belief-shifts were moderated by impressionability at baseline and mediated by perceived emotional synchrony with others during the psychedelic experience. The observed belief-shifts post psychedelic use were confirmed by data from an independent controlled clinical trial. Together, these findings imply that psychedelic use has a causal influence on metaphysical beliefs – shifting them away from ‘hard materialism’."

https://psyarxiv.com/f6sjk

Online survey? Nope. Self-selection bias is high. Useless results.

To demonstrate this, you need a randomly selected group of people that would ideally have measurable variation in metaphysical beliefs. You then remeasure after the experience. Ideally the experience would take place in some sort of neutral setting - one with no connotations of religion or spirituality. Possibly something like an ordinary home.

With all of variations in set and setting, plus the self-selection bias of an online survey, this research contributes little or nothing.

[DandelionSoul]

Online survey? Nope. Self-selection bias is high. Useless results.

To demonstrate this, you need a randomly selected group of people that would ideally have measurable variation in metaphysical beliefs. You then remeasure after the experience. Ideally the experience would take place in some sort of neutral setting - one with no connotations of religion or spirituality. Possibly something like an ordinary home.

With all of variations in set and setting, plus the self-selection bias of an online survey, this research contributes little or nothing.

I'm not sure it's quite as bad as it sounds at first blush. From the paper:

For this purpose, we developed a prospective survey requiring respondents answer questions pertaining to a range of metaphysical beliefs before and after attending a ceremonial retreat in which a psychedelic compound was taken. The external validity of these findings was subsequently examined via comparison with data derived from a randomized, controlled clinical trial in major depressive disorder, in which changes in beliefs were measured following psilocybin-therapy vs. a 6-week course of the selective serotonin-reuptake-inhibitor, escitalopram.

The study isn't great -- there's no information about the nature of the retreat, for instance, to determine what effect the ceremonial setting might have had on the impact of the experience. But I don't think it's totally useless either. It's promising preliminary research, but shouldn't be taken as more than that.

[Jim Cross]

Online survey? Nope. Self-selection bias is high. Useless results.

To demonstrate this, you need a randomly selected group of people that would ideally have measurable variation in metaphysical beliefs. You then remeasure after the experience. Ideally the experience would take place in some sort of neutral setting - one with no connotations of religion or spirituality. Possibly something like an ordinary home.

With all of variations in set and setting, plus the self-selection bias of an online survey, this research contributes little or nothing.

I'm not sure it's quite as bad as it sounds at first blush. From the paper:

For this purpose, we developed a prospective survey requiring respondents answer questions pertaining to a range of metaphysical beliefs before and after attending a ceremonial retreat in which a psychedelic compound was taken. The external validity of these findings was subsequently examined via comparison with data derived from a randomized, controlled clinical trial in major depressive disorder, in which changes in beliefs were measured following psilocybin-therapy vs. a 6-week course of the selective serotonin-reuptake-inhibitor, escitalopram.

The study isn't great -- there's no information about the nature of the retreat, for instance, to determine what effect the ceremonial setting might have had on the impact of the experience. But I don't think it's totally useless either. It's promising preliminary research, but shouldn't be taken as more than that.

Actually that makes it even worse. They are not only self-selected to take the survey they were also self-selected to attend a "ceremonial retreat". They not only had the experience in a non-neutral setting, they also self-selected to attend a ceremony . I don't know what kind of comparison they made to the other study but, in any case, the comparison group was composed of mentally ill people.

You need to start with randomly selected people with varying metaphysical beliefs and put them in a neutral setting, then measure before and after.

The problem in almost all psychedelic research is distinguishing the effects of substances from the preconceptions and prior biases of the people taking the substance.

[SanteriSatama]

You need to start with randomly selected people with varying metaphysical beliefs and put them in a neutral setting, then measure before and after.

Why? That would be highly unethical. There's deeply sacred aspect to psychadelics as well as long long traditions of responsible medicinal use.

Enough of the "quantitative methodology beats ethics"! Tens of thousands of years of empirical and ethical scientific research and application beats silly metaphysical quantification.

[Jim Cross]

You need to start with randomly selected people with varying metaphysical beliefs and put them in a neutral setting, then measure before and after.

Why? That would be highly unethical. There's deeply sacred aspect to psychadelics as well as long long traditions of responsible medicinal use.

Enough of the "quantitative methodology beats ethics"! Tens of thousands of years of empirical and ethical scientific research and application beats silly metaphysical quantification.

That's ridiculous. I'm not suggesting experimenting on unwilling or uninformed people.

If you want to experiment only with people of a religious or idealistic mindset, then don't make any claims about psychedelics altering belief away from physicalism.

By the way, it is "psychedelics" not "psychadelics" unless you are trying to make a point with the misspelling.

[Jim Cross]

Here's an even better design.

Find a group of several hundred people who have never taken psychedelics and recruit them to take part in an experiment that involves LSD, psilocybin, whatever. Inform them of the possible effects.

Give them a test to determine their degree of belief in physicalism.

Divide the group into three roughly equal parts:

1- Strongly physicalist
2- Strongly idealist
3- Those in-between

Give each individual the experience in a neutral setting.

Retest for changed belief.

The results would give some degree of confidence about whether psychedelics alter beliefs or mainly reinforce them.

[Jim Cross]

Aldous Huxley wrote in a letter to Humphry Osmond:

“To make this mundane world sublime,
Take half a gram of phanerothyme”

Osmond responded to Huxley with:

“To fathom Hell or soar angelic,
Just take a pinch of psychedelic”