Peterson dialogos with Vervaeke

[Soul_of_Shu]

Perchance as a precursor to Peterson/Kastrup, with BK getting a mention early on ...

[Ben Iscatus]

I've watched the first 45 minutes, but Peterson seems absolutely manic in this one - he constantly interrupts. Hot flow not cool flow! -John is never allowed to finish his point. He must have the patience of a saint.

[Soul_of_Shu]

I've watched the first 45 minutes, but Peterson seems absolutely manic in this one - he constantly interrupts. Hot flow not cool flow! -John is never allowed to finish his point. He must have the patience of a saint.

Yes, and even JP confesses he keeps interrupting JV because he can't, in his own words, 'shut up'—yet seems Daimon-driven to constantly interject. Still, I feel it warrants some forbearance given that these ideas are like gems worth the struggle of mining them ... not to mention that JV keeps referencing BK, albeit if not in agreement with the premise of idealism.

[AshvinP]

I've watched the first 45 minutes, but Peterson seems absolutely manic in this one - he constantly interrupts. Hot flow not cool flow! -John is never allowed to finish his point. He must have the patience of a saint.

Yes, and even JP confesses he keeps interrupting JV because he can't, in his own words, 'shut up'—yet seems Daimon-driven to constantly interject. Still, I feel it warrants some forbearance given that these ideas are like gems worth the struggle of mining them ... not to mention that JV keeps referencing BK, albeit if not in agreement with the premise of idealism.

I have only seen first minute and he is making me feel manic with the speed of his intro...

But if BK and idealism are referenced that should be very interesting.

[AshvinP]

I've watched the first 45 minutes, but Peterson seems absolutely manic in this one - he constantly interrupts. Hot flow not cool flow! -John is never allowed to finish his point. He must have the patience of a saint.

Yes, and even JP confesses he keeps interrupting JV because he can't, in his own words, 'shut up'—yet seems Daimon-driven to constantly interject. Still, I feel it warrants some forbearance given that these ideas are like gems worth the struggle of mining them ... not to mention that JV keeps referencing BK, albeit if not in agreement with the premise of idealism.

I have only seen first minute and he is making me feel manic with the speed of his intro...

But if BK and idealism are referenced that should be very interesting.

Amazing. This first topic on the "nature of insight" is exactly what we have been discussing on the other thread re: Steiner and The Philosophy of Spiritual Activity. JP refers to Jung quote and says, "most people encounter thoughts like they find a table when they walk into a room... it's just there." Steiner discusses those things at length in PoSA. And then JV goes into why comparing thinking to prayer is only "radical" for people who presuppose we are passively observing things and thinking about them, rather than participating in the co-creation of the world. Great start!

[AshvinP]

This is the most amazing conversation. JV is operating on a deep metaphysical-philosophical level and discerning the entire thread of Western history from ancient Greece to where we have arrived now through the Cartesian and Kantian divides. Most will probably listen JP and just hear bumbling and confusion (and his interruptions are definitely annoying), but he is operating on the deep mythological level. He is trying to relate what JV is speaking of into the spiritual mythology of Judeo-Christian tradition and what exactly is happening in modern Western society in spiritual-mythological terms. At one point he is almost attributing these things to "Satanic" spirits operating in the modern world, which is probably not the best way to put it.

All in all, I hear them both asking the fundamental question of what it means to Think since the time of pre-Socratics and Incarnation of Christ. Everything mentioned above is nested within that one question. The same goes for JV-BK conversation. I know that sounds overly simplistic, or even a bit crazy, but that's what it is all about. And if either of them were to just read Steiner's PoF, so many weights would be lifted from their shoulders by the simple elegance of his philosophy of Thinking. Unfortunately I doubt they will pay attention to my tweets to that effect. Sometimes people just want to stay in conversation about these things forever (including myself), and I think that's the biggest hurdle that many of us need to get over right now.

[SanteriSatama]

Most will probably listen JP and just hear bumbling and confusion (and his interruptions are definitely annoying), but he is operating on the deep mythological level. He is trying to relate what JV is speaking of into the spiritual mythology of Judeo-Christian tradition and what exactly is happening in modern Western society in spiritual-mythological terms. At one point he is almost attributing these things to "Satanic" spirits operating in the modern world, which is probably not the best way to put it.

By his behaviour in the discussion, the interruptions, the talking over instead of listening, the nervous laughter... it looks as if JP himself is partially possessed by a "Satanic spirit". But not very strong such, more like spirit of deep self-doubt which manifests as badly communicating over-reacting and self-important "me, me me" -meme.

JP was much, much better in his talk with the young anarchist.

[Ben Iscatus]

By his behaviour in the discussion, the interruptions, the talking over instead of listening, the nervous laughter... it looks as if JP himself is partially possessed by a "Satanic spirit". But not very strong such, more like spirit of deep self-doubt which manifests as badly communicating over-reacting and self-important "me, me me" -meme.

Yes, I agree. It's as if he wished to prove that he is intellectually quicker than John. Ego in control!

[Soul_of_Shu]

Keeping in mind that these guys are long time colleagues and friends at U of T, I get the feeling that JP was being far more jocular and inclined toward brotherly banter and casual interjection than he would otherwise be with an interlocutor, knowing that JV would go along with the mood, since he's not inclined to engage in that kind of mood with someone he's not so casually familiar with. So I expect he'll return to his usual style if he were to chat with BK.

[AshvinP]

Keeping in mind that these guys are long time colleagues and friends at U of T, I get the feeling that JP was being far more jocular and inclined toward brotherly banter and casual interjection than he would otherwise be with an interlocutor, knowing that JV would go along with the mood, since he's not inclined to engage in that kind of mood with someone he's not so casually familiar with. So I expect he'll return to his usual style if he were to chat with BK.

It may be related to the physical pain he has been in since returning home. He needs to keep talking for some relief.