Philosophical Speculations

Hi all,

Something that I haven't been able to figure out after reading (and absolutely loving) quite some of Bernardo's work is why alters need food in order to stay dissociated from mind at large. Consciousness obviously does not need 'fuel' in order to exist, and it also seems strange that an alter needs to consume certain endogenous experiences that are happing in mind at large(what to us looks like food) in order to continue to exist. Couldn't mind at large just as easy have resulted in alters that just exist and don't need food? Why does it cost energy to maintain an alter? Isn't energy just an appearance within in consciousness? If mind at large could also created alters that don't need food, then it is strange that all organisms need food.

I hope someone can enlighten me!

Hi Paul, I hear a lot of people make this sharp distinction between a dissociated alter in the 'material' realm and completely non dissociated Mind at large which we seemingly dissolve into at death. I still think the jury is out on that. For instance in eastern religion there is a subtle realm between lives (semi dissociated if you like). It makes sense to me that we could be there at some point, but need to incarnate (either because of desire or to balance previous actions) into a more 'dense' form of mentation which looks like the 'material' realm. In that sense, we need to play by its rules while we are here, which include consuming food etc. You can type that key board and I can read this screen because we are using the same building block rules that go with sharing this realm. Like in the matrix you can probably break those rules but they are very entrenched.

PaulSmid wrote: ↑Sun Aug 22, 2021 3:48 pm Hi all,

Something that I haven't been able to figure out after reading (and absolutely loving) quite some of Bernardo's work is why alters need food in order to stay dissociated from mind at large. Consciousness obviously does not need 'fuel' in order to exist, and it also seems strange that an alter needs to consume certain endogenous experiences that are happing in mind at large(what to us looks like food) in order to continue to exist. Couldn't mind at large just as easy have resulted in alters that just exist and don't need food? Why does it cost energy to maintain an alter? Isn't energy just an appearance within in consciousness? If mind at large could also created alters that don't need food, then it is strange that all organisms need food.

Under idealism the entire shebang is Mind-conceived idea construction. And part of the corporeal idea construct is the metabolic process that sustains the corporeal form. Could Mind have conceived of another way? I really don't know. I suspect BK would have his own answer, as he would for your other topic question, but alas he participates only rarely in this forum's Q&A.

PaulSmid wrote: ↑Sun Aug 22, 2021 3:48 pm Hi all,

Something that I haven't been able to figure out after reading (and absolutely loving) quite some of Bernardo's work is why alters need food in order to stay dissociated from mind at large. Consciousness obviously does not need 'fuel' in order to exist, and it also seems strange that an alter needs to consume certain endogenous experiences that are happing in mind at large(what to us looks like food) in order to continue to exist. Couldn't mind at large just as easy have resulted in alters that just exist and don't need food? Why does it cost energy to maintain an alter? Isn't energy just an appearance within in consciousness? If mind at large could also created alters that don't need food, then it is strange that all organisms need food.

I hope someone can enlighten me!

Do you want an answer from an erroneously fragmented world-conception like on the other thread, or one where idealism is taken consistently? I can't conjure up the former, but may have some thoughts on the latter.

Not just food...what about sex? Most unnecessary.

Ben Iscatus wrote: ↑Sun Aug 22, 2021 8:11 pm Not just food...what about sex? Most unnecessary.

I suppose M@L had to conceive of some carnal pleasures to keep its alter-mode expressions committed and engaged in the corporeal construct, and whatever integral function it serves, otherwise they'd be opting out in droves given the suffering prone ramifications

Hi Paul, I hear a lot of people make this sharp distinction between a dissociated alter in the 'material' realm and completely non dissociated Mind at large which we seemingly dissolve into at death. I still think the jury is out on that. For instance in eastern religion there is a subtle realm between lives (semi dissociated if you like). It makes sense to me that we could be there at some point, but need to incarnate (either because of desire or to balance previous actions) into a more 'dense' form of mentation which looks like the 'material' realm. In that sense, we need to play by its rules while we are here, which include consuming food etc. You can type that key board and I can read this screen because we are using the same building block rules that go with sharing this realm. Like in the matrix you can probably break those rules but they are very entrenched.

This rings pretty true to me. But, this kind of structure to reality does not sound like something that a instinctive, non-metacognitively aware mind at large would naturally evolve into. This kind of structure to reality would seem more like a conscious design by a true creator god. I'm pretty open to this possibility, but I don't think Bernardo is.

But if god basically wants to have an experience in a dense plain of mentation, and decides that needing to eat food would be part of that, then that does explain it. Problem is that now you have a conscious, almighty creator god on your hands.

Not just food...what about sex? Most unnecessary.

The main reason that mind at large created alters is so that it could finally have some hot sex with itself ofc.

One thing worth noticing is that the essence of what we consume/ eat / need, is Enthalpy, not energy.
(We, as metabolizing entities radiate the same amount of energy as we ingest; but the entropy content is different; low entropy IN; high entropy OUT.)

So, one might say that there's a transfer of order from the sun to metabolizing entities.

order -> structure -> disassociation?

just brainstorming.

Martin_ wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 1:27 am One thing worth noticing is that the essence of what we consume/ eat / need, is Enthalpy, not energy.
(We, as metabolizing entities radiate the same amount of energy as we ingest; but the entropy content is different; low entropy IN; high entropy OUT.)

So, one might say that there's a transfer of order from the sun to metabolizing entities.

order -> structure -> disassociation?

just brainstorming.

That is exactly the premise of one of my favorite books.


Into the Cool: Energy Flow, Thermodynamics, and Life by Eric Schneider and Dorion Sagan