Eugene I wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:36 pm
Cleric K wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:44 pm
It does make perfect sense but the flat view has to be overcome. As an engineer you should be quite comfortable with the idea that the movement of thoughts, sympathies and antipathies, etc. are only the
surface expression of deeper spiritual 'machinery'. This is the 'behind'. It's not behind your monitor, it's more appropriate to think of it as behind your face/front part of the brain, in what is subconscious. To know about the subconscious as simple shapes on the screen is the psychoanalytical, Freudian approach, which is completely intellectual. We build intellectual picture of what might be living in the subconscious. Higher cognition moves the eye of the spirit 'behind our face' (similar to the Guardian Angel's perspective in the Alex Grey's painting), so that the physical, soul and spirit processes that make our ordinary ego 'tick' are now 'in front' of us. We live and weave completely into the normally subconscious layers of soul and spirit that constitute our Earthly character. Of course, if one assumes that his spirit eye is already at the outer periphery of the One Consciousness, naturally they'll allow themselves to have direct experiences
only on the sensory screen (which includes normal sensory-like imagination, dreams, visions, etc.) confronted and thought about with rigid intellectual concepts. That is, they'll allow themselves to think about their ego only in external psychoanalytical way, or better still, simply push away any thoughts about an ego, which leaves what lies behind the face completely in the shadows.
That's true, and the insights into the "machinery behind" the mundane human thoughts and perception and studying/observing the mechanics of the ego structures have always been part of many spiritual traditions of the past (including Buddhist: there is a reason they called their meditation technique "Vipassana" which means "insight meditation"). But what I'm saying is: once you penetrate into the deeper levels of the "machinery", everything you can ever perceive, experience or directly know
still always appear on the "screen" (in the "space") of your awareness, so you simply expand the space into the layers that have been previously unconscious. But you still can not "penetrate" beyond the screen/space of your awareness (because it is not possible to experience anything that you would not be aware of, anything "beyond" the space of your direct awareness).
So we are back to corner 1: many meditative and spiritual practices of many traditions have been doing exactly the same: they expand the limits of our awareness into higher/lower realms of our consciousness machinery. Yet, you claim that your level of cognition is by far higher than that of others, that you are far ahead of all other traditions and are able to penetrate into much higher/deeper levels of cognition and attain the knowledge of higher-level truths not available to practitioners of other paths. Most content of your posts is targeted do demean the practices and spiritual experiences of other traditions (Eastern in particular) or NDE experiencers, and demonstrate that the level of "high-cognition" that you attained following the path of Anthroposophy is far superior to those. And this superiority claim this the real problem of your spiritual science.
Eugene - everyting written above is either incoherent (1st paragraph) or downright falsehoods (2nd paragraph). I don't think you are lying intentionally, rather I think your subconscious prejudices have clouded your judgment so badly that you cannot remember anything either Cleric,
or yourself, have written on this topic. Sometimes you say you have experienced the same higher cognition as Cleric, other times you say you have not, other times you say it doesn't exist, other times you say it is all delusional cult-like indoctrination, other times you said "
I agree with all of that but... Godel's candy shop!" (that is the actual extent of your argument), and now you are asserting blatant falsehoods about Cleric and our position - "
demean the practices and spiritual experiences of other traditions (Eastern in particular)" and "
not available to practitioners of other paths". We have both clearly expressed dozens of times that all other spritual traditions are integral developments in the overall process which will continue to produce fruit as we progress into future epochs (
in fact the Western cultural traditions are now in decline). Cleric has also shown how the path to higher cognition is available to everyone. Each person on this forum, with a bit of good will, effort, patience, and attentive thought, can begin on that path and a few here already have in good faith, with absolutely nothing to lose if the exercises do not produce fruit. So, please, spare us this routine and start doing some of your own memory exercises so we don't remain forever in this nightmarish rendition of Groundhog's Day.
In the meantime, let's take another trip down memory lane so everyone is clear about Cleric's and my own position:
viewtopic.php?p=6210#p6210
Cleric wrote:Bhagavad Gita portrays in a magnificent way the culmination of an epoch of evolution. The basic mood can be expressed as something like: "The soul is sinking deeper and deeper towards the sensory dream-pictures. Unless this is counteracted, the soul runs the real danger to be dissipated in the fragments. The impulse of Krishna gives the soul force that counterbalances this descent. Yes, the soul is sinking deeper and deeper into decoherence but it must keep the image of the Divinity within itself if it is to survive and keep its wholeness."
...
These are very deep topics and it's perfectly normal if very little of the above is immediately understood. The important thing is to realize that everything is moving, evolving, unfolding. The Divinity that spoke through Krishna is not exactly the same as the one that went through the gate of Golgotha, nor it is exactly the same as the Divinity that speaks today within our souls. The Sun-Spirit is itself going through metamorphic development. "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do;" Nothing stays static or ever repeats in the exactly same form. This is precisely what the Christ impulse should lead us to experience. Through the event of Golgotha a Cosmic process was triggered that begins to redeem the world of Maya. Not simply to cast it away as useless dream picture, but to infuse if with the forces of the Word. In other words, we only know the world of Maya when we attain to the perspectives from which that world is spoken forth. This is what it means to spiritualize matter - to experience how the Spirit works into the forms and take on from there our own creative work. This work begins from our own substance. Physical matter is the last thing we'll master. We begin from the more immediate and malleable towards the more resisting and opaque. We begin through our thinking substance which must first and foremost transform the astral substance - our desires and passions - and make it a docile instrument of the Spirit.
As far as the Bodhisattvas, these are the most advanced members of the human evolution. Every time a Bodhisattva becomes a Buddha an important impulse is added to human development. The important thing is that in the Buddha impulses humanity works as if from below upwards. Something is transformed within human nature in order to accommodate the Divine. As I've said several times, the deed of Gautama Buddha hasn't even reached its real significance yet. The perfection of perceiving, thinking, feeling, willing - which is at the heart of this impulse - is yet to be unfolded in its true grandeur. Similarly, in the future Bodhisattva Maitreya, through his attainment of Buddhahood, will unfold the impulse of Love in ways unfathomable today. Love is to become a real creative force.
All of this happens in the context of the unfoldment of the Christ impulse - the Spiritualization of reality through Love. This is the master blueprint. What happened through the event of Golgotha is only the seed for something that will unfold in all future time "and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.". Just as our ordinary life can be very diverse, yet it all starts with the birth event, within the context of which everything unfolds, so the birth of the Spirit within the physical realm marks a starting point within the context of which the Cosmic unfoldment will proceed. There'll be many more impulses that will concretize the details of this process but nevertheless everything is within the same context - that the Divine should grow more and more from the seed that physical man is. This is a twofold process. Physical man is the soil that is being refined below but the true Man comes from above and transfigures it. The accommodation of this higher Man is something that we can initiate only in complete freedom, out of Love.
As long as we understand things in their evolutionary context everything fits into place. The whole Cosmic development is an organic process, rhythmically unfolding.