(Essay) A Phenomenology of Mechanism: The Liminal Spaces of Perception

[Lou Gold]

Thank you, Federica, for connecting me with it again. So loving and lovely. Indeed, I was so happy with it that I played the devotional Namo Avalokiteshvara chant as I drifted off to sleep (yeah, I know one is supposed to do this to wake up but it was quite late for me ).

Listening to it I was thinking that, interestingly, every word in this journal would pass the sifting of a spiritual-scientific validity test.

I can't affirm this as an insider but I hope so and want to agree with you. This is what I meant in saying Thay is a "real deal that vibrates the universal more than sectarian."

Still, in this journal, it’s not about seeing (others') suffering, as in your personal take on it - as far as I understand it.

That would not be my take. The first noble truth is that everyone is suffering (self and others). About the larger truth revealed to him in his great vision he says:

My true nature, I realized, was much more real,
both uglier and more beautiful than
I ever could have imagined.
(2:37)

It’s more about the necessary inner tear that knowing the truth brings forth, which could extend to the responsibility that knowing the truth brings forth. What do you think?

I totally agree. The "inner tear" is what motivates the Bodhisattva to compassionately remain here to reduce the suffering. Connecting to the post theme, it seems to me as a most liminal perspective.

I would like to continue this conversational line but I don't want to to distract from the good discussion of meditations you are having with Ashvin and Cleric. What do you think of splitting off a new thread?

Lou, I had that curiosity about Thich Nhat Hanh' quote, but I am neither particularly well-versed in his vision, nor, to be honest, I feel inclined to ‘work’ in that direction. Time is already tight on various fronts. Also I don’t see the value in considering suffering as such, as a starting point, or as an initial truth. Its reasons and consequences are better understood by assuming a more encompassing approach ‘from the ground up’. So I wouldn’t be a very appropriate or inspired contributor to a new thread on Buddhism, or on Thich Nhat Hanh, and I cannot commit to such a conversation.

OOPS. Not what I was proposing. I am not a Buddhist or a meditator or do I worship suffering. I guess my devotional path is more likened to a Christian contemplative but I really don't want get stuck in such a label. I do understand your time-management issue. Same for me, which is a reason why I don't join with you and Ashvin in meditative exercises. My earthly time is limited. I'm a storyteller and I need conversation to hone my language. If not for you, no problem.

So far, my best attempts have been with image making. I'll resist sharing my most recent attempt to portray a liminal perspective, lest it might be interpreted as the kid putting forth yet another "rolling stone" with "no direction home."

[Federica]

Thank you, Federica, for connecting me with it again. So loving and lovely. Indeed, I was so happy with it that I played the devotional Namo Avalokiteshvara chant as I drifted off to sleep (yeah, I know one is supposed to do this to wake up but it was quite late for me ).





I can't affirm this as an insider but I hope so and want to agree with you. This is what I meant in saying Thay is a "real deal that vibrates the universal more than sectarian."



That would not be my take. The first noble truth is that everyone is suffering (self and others). About the larger truth revealed to him in his great vision he says:

My true nature, I realized, was much more real,
both uglier and more beautiful than
I ever could have imagined.
(2:37)



I totally agree. The "inner tear" is what motivates the Bodhisattva to compassionately remain here to reduce the suffering. Connecting to the post theme, it seems to me as a most liminal perspective.

I would like to continue this conversational line but I don't want to to distract from the good discussion of meditations you are having with Ashvin and Cleric. What do you think of splitting off a new thread?

Lou, I had that curiosity about Thich Nhat Hanh' quote, but I am neither particularly well-versed in his vision, nor, to be honest, I feel inclined to ‘work’ in that direction. Time is already tight on various fronts. Also I don’t see the value in considering suffering as such, as a starting point, or as an initial truth. Its reasons and consequences are better understood by assuming a more encompassing approach ‘from the ground up’. So I wouldn’t be a very appropriate or inspired contributor to a new thread on Buddhism, or on Thich Nhat Hanh, and I cannot commit to such a conversation.

OOPS. Not what I was proposing. I am not a Buddhist or a meditator or do I worship suffering. I guess my devotional path is more likened to a Christian contemplative but I really don't want get stuck in such a label. I do understand your time-management issue. Same for me, which is a reason why I don't join with you and Ashvin in meditative exercises. My earthly time is limited. I'm a storyteller and I need conversation to hone my language. If not for you, no problem.

So far, my best attempts have been with image making. I'll resist sharing my most recent attempt to portray a liminal perspective, lest it might be interpreted as the kid putting forth yet another "rolling stone" with "no direction home."

Sorry, Lou, I misinterpreted. You're an artist, working with storytelling and images, looking for inspiration in the form of conversations to feed your creativity. Would that be a better description of what you propose?
If so, I think you should start your new threads regardless of my acquiescence, so that everyone can possibly become your muse, even if only for one post. For myself, I doubt I have particularly solid skills or inclinations as muse, and I doubt I have much inspirational material at my disposal to pour in creative threads either. Of course, I am not going to forbid myself to comment but yes, I can't say this really is for me.
By the way, I don’t get your take on time management. Time is relative, and I don't see how the way we decide to employ our days should depend on a statistical forecast of life expectancy / earthly time left. Everyone's earthly time is limited, in ways that we can hardly master. We reclaim freedom for ourselves by learning how to make a difference in every moment, instead of trying to rope off abstract islands of future time we know nothing about, in an attempt to secure them as open storage space for collections we hope we will bring together. You make it sound like future is a staking of empty cargo containers we have to wisely plan how to rent out.

[Lou Gold]

Lou, I had that curiosity about Thich Nhat Hanh' quote, but I am neither particularly well-versed in his vision, nor, to be honest, I feel inclined to ‘work’ in that direction. Time is already tight on various fronts. Also I don’t see the value in considering suffering as such, as a starting point, or as an initial truth. Its reasons and consequences are better understood by assuming a more encompassing approach ‘from the ground up’. So I wouldn’t be a very appropriate or inspired contributor to a new thread on Buddhism, or on Thich Nhat Hanh, and I cannot commit to such a conversation.

OOPS. Not what I was proposing. I am not a Buddhist or a meditator or do I worship suffering. I guess my devotional path is more likened to a Christian contemplative but I really don't want get stuck in such a label. I do understand your time-management issue. Same for me, which is a reason why I don't join with you and Ashvin in meditative exercises. My earthly time is limited. I'm a storyteller and I need conversation to hone my language. If not for you, no problem.

So far, my best attempts have been with image making. I'll resist sharing my most recent attempt to portray a liminal perspective, lest it might be interpreted as the kid putting forth yet another "rolling stone" with "no direction home."

Sorry, Lou, I misinterpreted. You're an artist, working with storytelling and images, looking for inspiration in the form of conversations to feed your creativity. Would that be a better description of what you propose?
If so, I think you should start your new threads regardless of my acquiescence, so that everyone can possibly become your muse, even if only for one post. For myself, I doubt I have particularly solid skills or inclinations as muse, and I doubt I have much inspirational material at my disposal to pour in creative threads either. Of course, I am not going to forbid myself to comment but yes, I can't say this really is for me.
By the way, I don’t get your take on time management. Time is relative, and I don't see how the way we decide to employ our days should depend on a statistical forecast of life expectancy / earthly time left. Everyone's earthly time is limited, in ways that we can hardly master. We reclaim freedom for ourselves by learning how to make a difference in every moment, instead of trying to rope off abstract islands of future time we know nothing about, in an attempt to secure them as open storage space for collections we hope we will bring together. You make it sound like future is a staking of empty cargo containers we have to wisely plan how to rent out.

Sorry, Lou, I misinterpreted. You're an artist, working with storytelling and images, looking for inspiration in the form of conversations to feed your creativity. Would that be a better description of what you propose?

No problem, Federica. Yes, your restatement is helpful and it offers an example of what I feel you contribute. I would add that I'm not so much seeking to feed my creativity as to stimulate it, which you do well.

If so, I think you should start your new threads regardless of my acquiescence, so that everyone can possibly become your muse, even if only for one post. For myself, I doubt I have particularly solid skills or inclinations as muse, and I doubt I have much inspirational material at my disposal to pour in creative threads either. Of course, I am not going to forbid myself to comment but yes, I can't say this really is for me.

Understood. Everyone is welcome! What I can say is that I have found your comments to me (and others) as somehow provocative-and-evocative in useful ways that move a dialogue along rather than shutting it down. There seems to be an in-the-moment sincerity and intelligence that I deeply appreciate. I will contemplate and call in guidance about whether I should do as you suggest.

By the way, I don’t get your take on time management. Time is relative, and I don't see how the way we decide to employ our days should depend on a statistical forecast of life expectancy / earthly time left. Everyone's earthly time is limited, in ways that we can hardly master. We reclaim freedom for ourselves by learning how to make a difference in every moment, instead of trying to rope off abstract islands of future time we know nothing about, in an attempt to secure them as open storage space for collections we hope we will bring together. You make it sound like future is a staking of empty cargo containers we have to wisely plan how to rent out.

This is another example of the provocative-and-evocative quality that I appreciate. I will surely answer it in concrete rather than abstract terms if I continue. You have brought the dialogue to a good point. I'm grateful.

[Federica]

Sorry, Lou, I misinterpreted. You're an artist, working with storytelling and images, looking for inspiration in the form of conversations to feed your creativity. Would that be a better description of what you propose?

No problem, Federica. Yes, your restatement is helpful and it offers an example of what I feel you contribute. I would add that I'm not so much seeking to feed my creativity as to stimulate it, which you do well.

If so, I think you should start your new threads regardless of my acquiescence, so that everyone can possibly become your muse, even if only for one post. For myself, I doubt I have particularly solid skills or inclinations as muse, and I doubt I have much inspirational material at my disposal to pour in creative threads either. Of course, I am not going to forbid myself to comment but yes, I can't say this really is for me.

Understood. Everyone is welcome! What I can say is that I have found your comments to me (and others) as somehow provocative-and-evocative in useful ways that move a dialogue along rather than shutting it down. There seems to be an in-the-moment sincerity and intelligence that I deeply appreciate. I will contemplate and call in guidance about whether I should do as you suggest.

By the way, I don’t get your take on time management. Time is relative, and I don't see how the way we decide to employ our days should depend on a statistical forecast of life expectancy / earthly time left. Everyone's earthly time is limited, in ways that we can hardly master. We reclaim freedom for ourselves by learning how to make a difference in every moment, instead of trying to rope off abstract islands of future time we know nothing about, in an attempt to secure them as open storage space for collections we hope we will bring together. You make it sound like future is a staking of empty cargo containers we have to wisely plan how to rent out.

This is another example of the provocative-and-evocative quality that I appreciate. I will surely answer it in concrete rather than abstract terms if I continue. You have brought the dialogue to a good point. I'm grateful.

Thanks, Lou, for the nice comments, I'm glad you find mine to be sincere! May I say that I would prefer for you not to quote-bold everything I write. I might be provocative-evocative at times, but hopefully not bold.

[Lou Gold]

Sorry, Lou, I misinterpreted. You're an artist, working with storytelling and images, looking for inspiration in the form of conversations to feed your creativity. Would that be a better description of what you propose?

No problem, Federica. Yes, your restatement is helpful and it offers an example of what I feel you contribute. I would add that I'm not so much seeking to feed my creativity as to stimulate it, which you do well.

If so, I think you should start your new threads regardless of my acquiescence, so that everyone can possibly become your muse, even if only for one post. For myself, I doubt I have particularly solid skills or inclinations as muse, and I doubt I have much inspirational material at my disposal to pour in creative threads either. Of course, I am not going to forbid myself to comment but yes, I can't say this really is for me.

Understood. Everyone is welcome! What I can say is that I have found your comments to me (and others) as somehow provocative-and-evocative in useful ways that move a dialogue along rather than shutting it down. There seems to be an in-the-moment sincerity and intelligence that I deeply appreciate. I will contemplate and call in guidance about whether I should do as you suggest.

By the way, I don’t get your take on time management. Time is relative, and I don't see how the way we decide to employ our days should depend on a statistical forecast of life expectancy / earthly time left. Everyone's earthly time is limited, in ways that we can hardly master. We reclaim freedom for ourselves by learning how to make a difference in every moment, instead of trying to rope off abstract islands of future time we know nothing about, in an attempt to secure them as open storage space for collections we hope we will bring together. You make it sound like future is a staking of empty cargo containers we have to wisely plan how to rent out.

This is another example of the provocative-and-evocative quality that I appreciate. I will surely answer it in concrete rather than abstract terms if I continue. You have brought the dialogue to a good point. I'm grateful.

Thanks, Lou, for the nice comments, I'm glad you find mine to be sincere! May I say that I would prefer for you not to quote-bold everything I write. I might be provocative-evocative at times, but hopefully not bold.

Sure, no problem. No mote bold. I was just differentiating our comments.