Can Idealism be without thought?

[Lou Gold]

That's the question.

[SanteriSatama]

It is a metaphysical position expressed in language, in that sense no. But perhaps that was not what you were really asking?

Is sentience as such dependent from matter and/or sapience? I would suggest not.

[Soul_of_Shu]

Nothing can be without consciousness, including ideas, which is the point of the idea of idealism.

[Lou Gold]

Nothing can be without consciousness, including ideas, which is the point of the idea of idealism.

Can consciousness be without mentation?

Can reason be without thinking?

It is a metaphysical position expressed in language, in that sense no. But perhaps that was not what you were really asking?

I definitely was not asking about expression in language.

[MaartenV]

advaita vedanta talks about pure awareness, without any thought. That's the real you.

[Lou Gold]

advaita vedanta talks about pure awareness, without any thought. That's the real you.

I agree!

The question, however, is whether a 'Western Non-dualism' or 'rational spiritualism' is possible.

[Soul_of_Shu]

Under idealism Consciousness is the ontological primitive. The activity of this fundamental, irreducible Consciousness, i.e. its 'mentation'/'ideation', is its ontological imperative ~ as inextricable as formlessness><form. I'd suggest that any reasoning is a function of it being meta-conscious.

[SanteriSatama]

Under idealism Consciousness is the ontological primitive. The activity of this fundamental, irreducible Consciousness, i.e. its 'mentation'/'ideation', is its ontological imperative ~ as inextricable as formlessness><form. I'd suggest that any reasoning is a function of it being meta-conscious.

Process philosophy does not support the ideation of any ontological primitive in the first place, substance is not presumed. The problem with substance metaphysics, which also Bernardo runs into, is projection of meta-cognition into infinite regress of nesting with cosmic solipsism on top. The lonely navel gazing god as the experiencER that experiencing supposedly requires. Whether this is intended or not, it's an image hard to avoid when starting from substance metaphysics.

[Lou Gold]

Under idealism Consciousness is the ontological primitive. The activity of this fundamental, irreducible Consciousness, i.e. its 'mentation'/'ideation', is its ontological imperative ~ as inextricable as formlessness><form. I'd suggest that any reasoning is a function of it being meta-conscious

Did you just violate your initial observation? >>>

It is a metaphysical position expressed in language, in that sense no.

[Lou Gold]

Under idealism Consciousness is the ontological primitive. The activity of this fundamental, irreducible Consciousness, i.e. its 'mentation'/'ideation', is its ontological imperative ~ as inextricable as formlessness><form. I'd suggest that any reasoning is a function of it being meta-conscious.

Process philosophy does not support the ideation of any ontological primitive in the first place, substance is not presumed. The problem with substance metaphysics, which also Bernardo runs into, is projection of meta-cognition into infinite regress of nesting with cosmic solipsism on top. The lonely navel gazing god as the experiencER that experiencing supposedly requires. Whether this is intended or not, it's an image hard to avoid when starting from substance metaphysics.

Yes! Very hard to avoid.