Re: Can Idealism be without thought?
Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:30 pm
Cleric K wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:59 amI agree with your comment referencing "the trees". The quote mentioning 'Brahman' which you responded to was from Chapter 2 of my six chapter book, titled Godspeak 2000. In Chapter 3, I say "For Life to flower and be more fruitful, desire must be discriminatingly refined and selectively accentuated. That is, what we desire and how we go about trying to attain it must be beneficially altered by greater awareness and understanding of the unitary nature and psychospiritual dynamic of Being. To promote such occurrence, relevant truth has been repeatedly stated; and I do so again: Individually, each of us is a transient aspect of an interwoven, ongoing whole. No one, as such, continues forever, and, except in illusion, no one has, or can ever have, a separate existence of his or her own. We maximize or minimize our own essential validity and creative potency to the degree to which we do or don’t cooperate with and contribute to developments that go on around us. Of itself, selfishness goes nowhere in the end. ... But mere articulation of this truth is not enough. If it was, we’d already be getting along quite well together, because it has historically been stated in ways that are both profound and eloquent. Raising consciousness and inspiring unselfish involvement aren’t accomplished that easily." The book is an attempt to bring 'religious' belief/philosophy into the 'modern' world.David_Sundaram wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 1:05 am I agree, David. In certain sense all this is correct to say. The question (the post at the other thread has few things on this) is that as man progresses on his spiritual journey through the ages, the landscape changes. If few thousand years ago man experienced the Brahman as mighty presence, a profound feeling penetrating through and through his soul, now we are in a process where this presence must find its concrete expression. We can compare this as approaching a forest from a distance. From afar the concept of "forest" is fully appropriate but once we enter it, we must recognize also the trees - otherwise we bump into them and don't realize what's happening. This is not to say we have to reduce and fragment reality but only that we must recognize what is there to be recognized.
I disagree with this statement. I think your question "Which one is the root.?" is a 'diversion' resulting from the fact (it is a fact in my view) that your headset is set in such a way that you did not 'receive' what I was 'transmitting'. Both the thinking process and thoughts which flow therein are 'produced' (i.e. generated) by what I have called 'Brahman' (among other labels). That is the ONE 'root' (albeit said 'root' also has many 'branches') of all Being-n-Doing. Hope to induce you to pull your impressively cogent mind's activity from continuing to go down and leading others into 'spurious' (in my view) rabbit-holes, from Chapter 15. The Bhagavad Gita:Cleric K wrote:When we say "the core I-Am-That-I-Am, That which Is at root within each and everyone" this intuitively rings true for many souls. But we must also realize that thoughts like this are produced from the thinking process. Any assertion about reality proceeds from the thinking process. We might be convinced that we are expressing an obvious fact but is it really? What exactly do we mean when we say "the root" within each and everyone? Which one is the root?
"This phenomenal creation, which is both ephemeral and eternal, is like a tree, but having its seed above in the Highest and its ramifications on this earth below. The scriptures are its leaves, and he who understands this, knows.
Its branches shoot upwards and downwards, deriving their nourishment from the Qualities; its buds are the objects of sense; and its roots, which follow the Law causing man’s regeneration and degeneration, pierce downwards into the soil.
In this world its true form is not known, neither its origin nor its end, and its strength is not understood, until the tree with its roots striking deep into the earth is hewn down by the sharp axe of non-attachment.
Beyond lies the Path, from which, when found, there is no return. This is the Primal God from whence this ancient creation has sprung.
The wise attain Eternity when, freed from pride and delusion, they have conquered their love for the things of sense; when, renouncing desire and fixing their gaze on the Self, they have ceased to be tossed to and fro by the opposing sensations, like pleasure and pain.
Neither sun, moon, nor fire shines there. Those who go thither never come back. For, O Arjuna, that is my Celestial Home!
It is only a very small part of My Eternal Self, which is the life of the universe, drawing round itself the six senses, the mind the last, which have their source in Nature.
When the Supreme Lord enters a body or leaves it, He gathers these senses together and travels on with them, as the wind gathers perfume while passing through the flowers.
He is the perception of the ear, the eye, the touch, the taste and the smell, yea and of the mind also; and the enjoyment the things which they perceive is also His.
The ignorant do not see that it is He Who is present in life and Who departs at death or even that it is He Who enjoys pleasure through the Qualities. Only the eye of wisdom sees."
In case you become interested, I have (to the best of my ability) updated/elucidates the idea(s) expressed in: "Beyond lies the Path, from which, when found, there is no return. This is the Primal God from whence this ancient creation has sprung. The wise attain Eternity when, freed from pride and delusion, they have conquered their love for the things of sense; when, renouncing desire and fixing their gaze on the Self, they have ceased to be tossed to and fro by the opposing sensations, like pleasure and pain. Neither sun, moon, nor fire shines there. Those who go thither never come back. For, O Arjuna, that is my Celestial Home! It is only a very small part of My Eternal Self, which is the life of the universe, drawing round itself the six senses, the mind the last, which have their source in Nature." in Chapter 2 of my treatise What Did Jesus REALLY Mean?