Philosophical Speculations

Science does not begin with facts. Science begins with recognition of patterns.

Martin_ wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:13 pm Science does not begin with facts. Science begins with recognition of patterns.

I think a real pattern is a fact.

Jim Cross wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:18 pm

Martin_ wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:13 pm Science does not begin with facts. Science begins with recognition of patterns.

I think a real pattern is a fact.

Assigning the attribute "real" to a pattern is something which comes a lot later in the scientific process. It is not how it begins.

there are many BK's.

There it Formal BK
and there is Visionary BK

The above paper is an example of Formal BK, where he fights against the current philosophical and scientific mindset using its own tools and methods.
The Visionaly BK is what we see a lot in interviews. There he lets his Imaginative Thinking loose, resulting in very different conversations, and exploration of different themes.

A lot of the criticism i see agaist BK is due to the conflation of these 2 BK's in my opinion.

Martin_ wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:13 pm Science does not begin with facts. Science begins with recognition of patterns.

Indeed, science, based on subjective experience, once studied a pattern of the sun, along with the firmament at large, 'rising' and 'setting' beyond the horizon, and came up with a theory of geocentrism, plausible enough at the time. Until science deduced through reason that the earth was spinning on its axis, and the sun was orbiting around the centre of the galaxy, with the earth following, spiralling, along, not really our experience at all, and then came up with another theory to account for the pattern. Now, what of that pattern countlessly reported over all of recorded history of encounters with the 'dead'?

Soul_of_Shu wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:35 pm

Martin_ wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:13 pm Science does not begin with facts. Science begins with recognition of patterns.

Indeed, science, based on subjective experience, once studied a pattern of the sun, along with the firmament at large, 'rising' and 'setting' beyond the horizon, and came up with a theory of geocentrism, plausible enough at the time. Until science deduced through reason that the earth was spinning on its axis, and the sun was orbiting around the centre of the galaxy, not really our experience at all, and then came up with another theory to account for the pattern. Now, what of that pattern countlessly reported over all of recorded history of encounters with the 'dead'?

If you are saying ghosts are like geocentrism, I can see your point. We have a better theory now.

Mysteriously snuffed out candles, weird sensations and shivers down the spine may not be due to the presence of ghosts in haunted houses but to very low frequency sound that is inaudible to humans. British scientists have shown in a controlled experiment that the extreme bass sound known as infrasound produces a range of bizarre effects in people including anxiety, extreme sorrow and chills — supporting popular suggestions of a link between infrasound and strange sensations.

https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna3077192

Jim Cross wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:39 pm

Soul_of_Shu wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:35 pm

Martin_ wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:13 pm Science does not begin with facts. Science begins with recognition of patterns.

Indeed, science, based on subjective experience, once studied a pattern of the sun, along with the firmament at large, 'rising' and 'setting' beyond the horizon, and came up with a theory of geocentrism, plausible enough at the time. Until science deduced through reason that the earth was spinning on its axis, and the sun was orbiting around the centre of the galaxy, not really our experience at all, and then came up with another theory to account for the pattern. Now, what of that pattern countlessly reported over all of recorded history of encounters with the 'dead'?

If you are saying ghosts are like geocentrism, I can see your point. We have a better theory now.

Mysteriously snuffed out candles, weird sensations and shivers down the spine may not be due to the presence of ghosts in haunted houses but to very low frequency sound that is inaudible to humans. British scientists have shown in a controlled experiment that the extreme bass sound known as infrasound produces a range of bizarre effects in people including anxiety, extreme sorrow and chills — supporting popular suggestions of a link between infrasound and strange sensations.

https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna3077192

Please read Mishlove's essay and get back to me whether you think ALL the cases reported there qualify as "strange sensations". If not, your explanation has no value in this context.

Jim Cross wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:39 pmIf you are saying ghosts are like geocentrism, I can see your point. We have a better theory now.

'Better' seems highly subjective in this case.

There is a list of unclaimed prizes for evidence of the paranormal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_p ... paranormal

The Scientific American prize for mediumship never got claimed. Apparently none of the others have either.

I guess it is insufficient belief on the part of the prize offerors.

Jim Cross wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:52 pm There is a list of unclaimed prizes for evidence of the paranormal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_p ... paranormal

The Scientific American prize for mediumship never got claimed. Apparently none of the others have either.

I guess it is insufficient belief on the part of the prize offerors.

That's one theory, yes.