Eugene I wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 4:15 pm
Jim, do you realize that when you are responding to me, you already subscribed to a metaphysical belief that my mind (with its conscious experience) exists. But you have no way to prove or verify this experimentally, so it can only be a belief.
An idealist and a materialist were walking together and discussing their philosophies..
While the idealist was explaining that everything that appears to us to be physical is really mental, they passed near a train track.
"If you are really convinced of your metaphysics, then you could put yourself in the middle of the track and wait for the train," said the materialist.
The idealist answered back: "I might be an idealist but I'm not a fool".
In our daily lives, we routinely make all sorts of assumptions.
We look both ways when we cross roads so we are not hit by oncoming traffic. We believe the car we saw coming towards that is momentarily hidden by a bush still exists even though we no longer perceive it. We believe other people are conscious. Probably a lot of animals are conscious. Rocks we generally don't believe are conscious and we don't try to have a dialog with them. . We think we ourselves are conscious and have control over bodies and thoughts. We accept reality as it appears and don't apply metaphysical methods and beliefs to the world.
To paraphrase Dogen.
“Before one studies philosophy, mountains are mountains and waters are waters; after a first glimpse into philosophy, mountains are no longer mountains and waters are no longer waters; after enlightenment, mountains are once again mountains and waters once again waters.”
The world is more like it appears and less like we want it to be.
nuggets of wisdom from Jim. who would've thought... ;-p
maybe the question is; after enlightenment, are they still mountains, or are they Mountains? as in "still mountains but instilled with more meaning than before."
Martin_ wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 3:36 pm
maybe the question is; after enlightenment, are they still mountains, or are they Mountains? as in "still mountains but instilled with more meaning than before."
They are mountains purged from irrelevant (metaphysical) meanings that we associated with them before
"Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kanzas anymore" Dorothy
Martin_ wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 3:36 pm
maybe the question is; after enlightenment, are they still mountains, or are they Mountains? as in "still mountains but instilled with more meaning than before."
They are mountains purged from irrelevant (metaphysical) meanings that we associated with them before
Two Absolute Idealists were walking in the countryside when one fell down a hidden well.
The one up top said, "Well, well, well! You get to experience the thing-in-itself. Can you describe it?"
The one down below said, "It's phenomenally cold, dark and wet."
The one up top said, "You're not going deep enough."
The one down below said, "I can't go any deeper. I don't feel well enough."
Ben Iscatus wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:19 pm
Two Absolute Idealists were walking in the countryside when one fell down a hidden well.
The one up top said, "Well, well, well! You get to experience the thing-in-itself. Can you describe it?"
The one down below said, "It's phenomenally cold, dark and wet."
The one up top said, "You're not going deep enough."
The one down below said, "I can't go any deeper. I don't feel well enough."
Well, well, well ... I see well what you did ... I trust wellies were worn, but not well worn out?
Here out of instinct or grace we seek
soulmates in these galleries of hieroglyph and glass,
where mutual longings and sufferings of love
are laid bare in transfigured exhibition of our hearts,
we who crave deep secrets and mysteries,
as elusive as the avatars of our dreams.
Two Absolute Idealists were walking in the countryside when one fell down a hidden well.
The one up top said, "Well, well, well! You get to experience the thing-in-itself. Can you describe it?"
The one down below said, "It's phenomenally cold, dark and wet."
The one up top said, "You're not going deep enough."
The one down below said, "Okay. I'll go deeper."
About that time the well collapsed on the idealist down below.
The one above called down to the one below: "Did you solve the Hard and Heavy Problem of Consciousness?"
There wasn't any answer.
A materialist left $100 bill on the table. An idealist grabbed it and put into his pocket.
- Why did you take my money?
- Don't worry, it's not real money, it's only an idea of money
- Then why do you need it?
- I like that idea!
"Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kanzas anymore" Dorothy
The materialist put another $100 bill on the table.
The idealist looked at him suspiciously and said, "Why are you giving money away?"
The materialist shook his head and said, "I haven't the faintest idea."
