Re: Message from BK
Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 2:04 pm
Figures. I was just thinking we should publish "Criticism" as a book...
Yeah that's exactly what I was picturing tooSoul_of_Shu wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:50 amMaybe the 12 step AA program could work for abstraction addiction. "My name is so-'n-so and I'm an addict ... "AshvinP wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:09 am
I hope you see I am proceeding in good faith, despite all the reasons to assume the worst. I have seen enough here to know the phantom layer of abstract concepts moving in circular logic is no joke. It is the real deal. Addiciton is the best metaphor here (more than a metaphor, really) - when we are flowing along with the destructive patterned thinking, we will have no idea it is a problem. All of our addictive behaviors will seem perfectly natural and justified to us. It is only when we seriously confront it with our thought that it rises up against us as a terrible force of nature. But we are sorely mistaken if we assume our own ignorance is an excuse, especially after it is repeatedly brought to our attention. Actually, that is the reason why we avoiding confronting it - we don't want to assume responsibility for it and feel ignoring it will keep it at a safe distance, as a vague dream we once had. But no one else is going to take responsibility for our addiction. This is not about who is "right" and who is "wrong", it is about all of us helping each other to overcome the addictions we all share. And one person who refuses to do that but also wants to express his opinion loudly and often can easily make it very difficult for everyone else in the group who has admitted they have a problem.
Actually 12 steps doesn't work all that well.AshvinP wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 3:08 pmYeah that's exactly what I was picturing tooSoul_of_Shu wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:50 amMaybe the 12 step AA program could work for abstraction addiction. "My name is so-'n-so and I'm an addict ... "AshvinP wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:09 am
I hope you see I am proceeding in good faith, despite all the reasons to assume the worst. I have seen enough here to know the phantom layer of abstract concepts moving in circular logic is no joke. It is the real deal. Addiciton is the best metaphor here (more than a metaphor, really) - when we are flowing along with the destructive patterned thinking, we will have no idea it is a problem. All of our addictive behaviors will seem perfectly natural and justified to us. It is only when we seriously confront it with our thought that it rises up against us as a terrible force of nature. But we are sorely mistaken if we assume our own ignorance is an excuse, especially after it is repeatedly brought to our attention. Actually, that is the reason why we avoiding confronting it - we don't want to assume responsibility for it and feel ignoring it will keep it at a safe distance, as a vague dream we once had. But no one else is going to take responsibility for our addiction. This is not about who is "right" and who is "wrong", it is about all of us helping each other to overcome the addictions we all share. And one person who refuses to do that but also wants to express his opinion loudly and often can easily make it very difficult for everyone else in the group who has admitted they have a problem.
AA, NA, etc. work because they are founded on radical honesty with oneself and everyone is encouraged to be honest in this way. No one speaks of "tolerance" as an abstract intellectual theory of behavior, while practically showing intolerance in accusatory behavior, but as a concrete experiential reality based in the fact we are all equally flawed in many of the same underlying ways, but there is something we, as self-aware individuals, can do about it as well. Confession, repentance, death-rebirth... these 3 are at the heart of overcoming all addictions of idolizing intellectual mental habit (sin).
“Peer reviewed studies peg the success rate of AA somewhere between five and 10 percent,” writes Dodes. “About one of every 15 people who enter these programs is able to become and stay sober.”
Jim Cross wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:01 pm Actually 12 steps doesn't work all that well.
“Peer reviewed studies peg the success rate of AA somewhere between five and 10 percent,” writes Dodes. “About one of every 15 people who enter these programs is able to become and stay sober.”
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/arch ... ps/284616/
Apparently, many are finding that psychedelic assisted therapy, mainly now only available in clinical trials, or with some therapists offering it 'underground', is showing very promising results with all kinds of addictions, albeit there's not enough long term data to know how long it lasts. I've no clue what impact it would have on abstraction addictionJim Cross wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:01 pm
Actually 12 steps doesn't work all that well.
“Peer reviewed studies peg the success rate of AA somewhere between five and 10 percent,” writes Dodes. “About one of every 15 people who enter these programs is able to become and stay sober.”
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/arch ... ps/284616/
I agree about psychedelic assisted therapy. Some of this work goes back to Humphry Osmond and the early 1950's then, when the sixties came, the research all got paused and has only recently picked up again.Soul_of_Shu wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:20 pmApparently, many are finding that psychedelic assisted therapy, mainly now only available in clinical trials, or with some therapists offering it 'underground', is showing very promising results with all kinds of addictions, albeit there's not enough long term data to know how long it lasts. I've no clue what impact it would have on abstraction addictionJim Cross wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:01 pm
Actually 12 steps doesn't work all that well.
“Peer reviewed studies peg the success rate of AA somewhere between five and 10 percent,” writes Dodes. “About one of every 15 people who enter these programs is able to become and stay sober.”
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/arch ... ps/284616/