Steve Petermann wrote: ↑Sun Dec 12, 2021 4:21 pm
I think it does make a practical difference in how we orient to our current situation. If we approach our spiritual growth as some path towards utopia or complete knowledge, then we will view this reality as somehow deficit, needing some distance eventual "fix" instead of seeing this limited and to some extent veiled reality as being necessary to instantiate profound meaning. A distant "optimized" state would seem to preclude what is offered here and now.
I tried to point out to Eugene how this whole 'veil' philosophy is abused. On one hand we postulate a veil which separates us from reality. But at the same time we develop a belief system about what this beyond reality is like and how based on this we can guide our life here on our side of the veil. Paradoxically, it's impossible to know if any of our beliefs about the beyond are correct because our own belief precludes any possibility for direct knowledge of the beyond.
Please note that this has been justified in the past when religious revelations were bestowed on humanity. But for the man of today, the above philosophy is self-defeating. It guarantees that we'll meet with the greatest suspicion any claim of knowledge attained from the deeper strata of reality - simply because in our philosophy this is not feasible. But at the same time we base our life on our beliefs about the beyond. Where do these beliefs come from? They are simply a patchwork of ideas that simply
suit our preferences.
The last words are key. Because this is what we see everywhere. This veil philosophy basically gives everyone carte blanche to do anything they want. Here's an example. A serial murderer may say: "MAL/God wanted to experience how it feels like to take the lives of others by causing them excruciating pain in the process. But don't worry, this is all planned. There's no Karma. I won't be punished. All my victims have volunteered to have these painful experiences. It's all good." Now if we take this veil philosophy seriously we can't really say anything to that person. Even if our vision of the beyond is different, how can we make a point? We can't because it will be our word against his. We're both on our side of the impermeable veil and we argue whether the murderer is here to experience the pleasures of killing or he's here to overcome his infernal instincts.
Things are very simple. The whole trouble, as Ashvin has pointed out many times, is that people don't follow their own ideas to their ultimate conclusions. If we take our veil philosophy to its ultimate conclusions we arrive at the above - everyone can do whatever they want because they can simply fantasize whatever mechanics they want behind the veil. And if we're true to our veil philosophy we shouldn't complain either when corrupt politicians destroy the lives of whole nations, when criminals rob us and kill our loved ones and so on. If we're consistent with our philosophy we have no right to complain - anyone can simply say "This is the beauty of life - we can experience all these things without any repercussions. It's all a game." This is the simple fact.
Then someone says "Look, people, this makes no sense. We need to investigate the depth of things and try to understand why people sin and take fully conscious control of our lives." To this we hear the response "Are you crazy? The veil is there for a reason. You want to ruin our fun? Are you going against the Will of God?"
If we look at things honestly we'll have to admit that this veil philosophy is there for one reason only - so that we can use it as a 'wildcard' such that we can fill the void of the beyond with whatever details our heart desires. Worried about Karma? No problem - we've got you covered. Here's a version of reality without Karma. Want to meet the Christ in Heaven? Sure - here, we have that too. Allergic to monotheism? Your arrival couldn't have been more timely - we have this brand new version of the Universe made of independent interest groups. So? What would it be?
Yes, we live in fascinating times. Our consumerist habits have gone so far that we now imagine we can simply go to the store and pick the version of reality that best fits our egoic taste.
The Central Topic doesn't talk about utopia, it's not about trespassing where we're not supposed to. It's about waking up to the illusions we voluntarily set up because we love their sweet taste. It's about becoming conscious of the forces within which our thinking, feeling and actions flow. Yes, this ruins some kinds of fun. Especially if our deeds are such that they should better remain in the dark. But when it's said
"many of the things we so admire would not be possible without some level of veiling" what is it really that we so much admire? What is it that will be ruined if it is elucidated by the Light of Truth? It's true that if we admire boxing, then we may really be disappointed because this sport will likely lose its following once we begin to feel the pain and humiliation of the one that is being beaten up, as if it happens to ourselves. But this is why there's evolution. Every one of these phenomena takes shape in the specific evolutionary context. So what do we admire? Some barbarian show that feeds our primitive instincts? The same instincts that cause pain and suffering all over the world?
There's real lack of imagination here. What we experience today can't even be called life in the true sense of the word. It's a half-conscious struggle with unknown forces and little sparkles of pleasure here and there. And don't worry, trying to lift the veil won't teleport us into a utopian state. It's actually quite the opposite. It will present us with the full display of the tumorous body of humanity. If someone says that he doesn't want to pierce through the veil because he's afraid of what he'll see I would sympathize. Because the situation is not at all pretty. But to say that "there's nothing to be fixed, everything is perfect as it is, stop scaring people, let them enjoy their lives in whatever way they want" is simply a moral crime.