No Objective Space or Time = No Free Will or Events

[Soul_of_Shu]

Ooops... my sincere apologies, Dana

No worries ... Speaking of identity fluidity, wondering now, what's the problem with exploring and playing at the role of being a 'doer', or say a 'co-creator' ~ so long as it's not reified as some exclusively fixated, segregated, suffering-prone entity/identity apart from the 'self'-perpetuating subject><object, spacetime dream/idea construction of M@L ~ i.e. being integral to an immanent feedback loop process of never-ending expression/exploration/evolution of creative Infinitude.

[Soul_of_Shu]

As a previous poster said, these age old paradoxes get transcended by enquiry, as Ramana also said:

D.: Has man any Free-Will or is everything in his life predestined and preordained?
M.: Free-Will holds the field in association with individuality. As long as individuality lasts so long there is Free-Will. All the teachings are based on this fact and they advise directing the Free-Will in the right channel. Find out to whom Free-Will or Destiny matters. Abide in it. Then these two are transcended. That is the only purpose of discussing these questions. To whom do these questions arise? Find out and be at peace.

Indeed, again, with the fusion, the confusion ends

[Starbuck]

Indeed, again, with the fusion, the confusion ends

Yes, I tend to leave it there. Until someone asks about this fusion thing and how one might obtain it!

[Soul_of_Shu]

Indeed, again, with the fusion, the confusion ends

Yes, I tend to leave it there. Until someone asks about this fusion thing and how one might obtain it!

Well, I'm not inclined to give advice in that regard, since I've never been inclined to follow such advice, other than to keep on keeping on, until the time is ripe ... as if anyOne could actually not keep on keeping on.

[Starbuck]

Well, I'm not inclined to give advice in that regard, since I've never been inclined to follow such advice, other than keep on keeping on, until the time is ripe ... as if anyOne could actually not keep on keeping on.

indeed!


“We shall not cease from exploration
And the end of all our exploring
Will be to arrive where we started
And know the place for the first time."

[Cleric K]

Ooops... my sincere apologies, Dana

No worries ... Speaking of identity fluidity, wondering now, what's the problem with exploring and playing at the role of being a 'doer', or say a 'co-creator' ~ so long as it's not reified as some exclusively fixated, segregated, suffering-prone entity/identity apart from the 'self'-perpetuating subject><object, spacetime dream/idea construction of M@L ~ i.e. being integral to an immanent feedback loop process of never-ending expression/exploration/evolution of creative Infinitude.

Indeed. What is the problem?

"some exclusively fixated, segregated, suffering-prone entity"
... we can say the same for a baby.

No baby - no confusion ... even if we never find out what the baby can grow into

[Soul_of_Shu]

"some exclusively fixated, segregated, suffering-prone entity"
... we can say the same for a baby.

Yes, there seems some inherent, perchance inevitable, dare one say even integral, suffering proneness that is the price of 'admission' to be paid, so to speak, into this alter-mode corporeal realm. And then there's the exacerbated suffering proneness that comes from that baby becoming meta-cognitive, while being indoctrinated into an alienating materialist ethos, now believed to be set apart from any numinous meaning or origin ... kinda like rubbing salt into the wound.

[Eugene I]

No baby - no confusion ... even if we never find out what the baby can grow into

There is a baby, but it's not a "doer", "entity", "choice maker" etc. This baby - our soul, individuated consciousness, it simply a semi-autonomous mental activity in the universal Consciousness. These activities include actions, choices etc, but there is no mysterious metaphysical "entity" performing them, at least none that we can actually experientially find. Yet, the individuated mental activities are absolutely real, and that is what we can call "soul" or "self". So the "self" is an activity, not an entity in a metaphysical or ontic sense, it is "doing", not a "doer", it's a "whirlpool" of conscious actions and experiences.

[Cleric K]

Yes, there seems some inherent, perchance inevitable, dare one say even integral, suffering proneness that is the price of 'admission' to be paid, so to speak, into this alter-mode corporeal realm. And then there's the exacerbated suffering proneness that comes from that baby becoming meta-cognitive, while being indoctrinated into an alienating materialist ethos, now believed to be set apart from any numinous meaning or origin ... kinda like rubbing salt into the wound.

And thus are two very different scenarios for the baby:
The baby peeks out of the ... ... womb and decides it's gotten into the wrong World, then back inside.
The baby is born and matures, eventually learns there's more to life than throwing fits when someone takes its lollipop.
So
Cosmic Sleep -> Meta-cognition (not for me) -> back to Cosmic Sleep (and dreaming of the numinous)
Cosmic Sleep -> Meta-cognition -> Cosmic Meta-cognition. The numinous, fully conscious within the reflections of the numinous, creatively becoming and appearing as a dream for those still dreaming.

Eugene, nice!
Just an additional clarification, to make sure everyone gets this right.

So the "self" is an activity, not an entity in a metaphysical or ontic sense, it is "doing", not a "doer", it's a "whirlpool" of conscious actions and experiences.

As long as one envisions "it" not as pointing at "something" but back towards the livingly experienced activity from which the thought "it is 'doing'" resounds.

[Soul_of_Shu]

Cosmic Sleep -> Meta-cognition -> Cosmic Meta-cognition. The numinous, fully conscious within the reflections of the numinous, creatively becoming and appearing as a dream for those still dreaming.

Still a work in progress for this peripatetic psyche shape-shifting through the dreamtime like some daemon-driven poet.