Question for Cleric about prayer

[TriloByte]

Cleric, almost at the end of your essay “Beyond the Flat M@l” you say:

“We need the missing science of prayer which leads us to the knowledge of the above through Imagination, Inspiration and Intuition. What is today commonly called prayer is a caricature. Without this prayer-like openness for the world of the Spirit we're like a body that is conscious only of its exhalation and imagines that it creates the air out of itself. ”

Could you elaborate more about this topic? I would really appreciate it. When you have time, of course.

Now, I am asking this to Cleric because he wrote the lines above, but if someone wants to say something, no problem.

[AshvinP]

Cleric, almost at the end of your essay “Beyond the Flat M@l” you say:

“We need the missing science of prayer which leads us to the knowledge of the above through Imagination, Inspiration and Intuition. What is today commonly called prayer is a caricature. Without this prayer-like openness for the world of the Spirit we're like a body that is conscious only of its exhalation and imagines that it creates the air out of itself. ”

Could you elaborate more about this topic? I would really appreciate it. When you have time, of course.

Now, I am asking this to Cleric because he wrote the lines above, but if someone wants to say something, no problem.

TB,

Here's a thought - what if everyone concretely felt their actual breathing process to be a gift of meaning from the Cosmic depths, which they inhale and exhale for the benefit of all other beings? I think we all still dimly perceive that connection when considering the mutual benefit between humans and plants in this transfiguration process of O2 and CO2. When we want to communicate meaning to others which was given to us before, we often actually do exhale, whether by speech, blowing into a trumpet, etc. How much more grateful would we feel, how much more prayerful and trusting in the Spirit, if every rhythm of our thinking-movement was also experienced just as concretely?

[TriloByte]

Ashvin, thank you for your thought. What you say sounds good, all our movements would be a permanent connection and, in that sense, a prayer.

I made the question because usually what is understood as a prayer is a set of words, I thought that may be there is in SS a specific prayers or method to say a prayer. From what you say, I deduce that it is intentionallity that makes a difference and not recipes or abstractions but concrete experience of our thinking-movement.

I already read PoF and your essay “Kant vs the world” and I am still struggling for understanding. I have not reached that stage yet, to live as you feel it, but yes, what you say makes sense.

[AshvinP]

Ashvin, thank you for your thought. What you say sounds good, all our movements would be a permanent connection and, in that sense, a prayer.

I made the question because usually what is understood as a prayer is a set of words, I thought that may be there is in SS a specific prayers or method to say a prayer. From what you say, I deduce that it is intentionallity that makes a difference and not recipes or abstractions but concrete experience of our thinking-movement.

I already read PoF and your essay “Kant vs the world” and I am still struggling for understanding. I have not reached that stage yet, to live as you feel it, but yes, what you say makes sense.

TB,

You raise a good point. When one is seeking understanding to set out on a path of making Thinking-movements more concrete, where to start with prayer? In my experiene, there was a time after reading PoF and revisiting it a few times where I began to perceive dimly where my Thinking could go to become more concrete, because I came to understand what Thinking was, i.e. an expression of my most essential Self. I am still basically at that stage. I find that in itself is more than enough to stimulate a devotional soul mood for prayer. As Cleric often points out, prayer today is mostly conceived of as a means to gain things that we desire in a very abstract way - "I need to become better at this skill by next week, so I pray that you make me better". Instead, prayer can be a direct expression of our Thinking organism. We are sending out the ideas we form along our path as a symbol of gratitude, trusting the Spirit will return them to us and to others who we are praying for with enriched meaning. Because God first loved us, we love God. We desire to take what was given to us on the Cross, the "Ego-I" who can Think back to the Divine, and pray it forward.

These are just initial thoughts. I have a feeling Cleric is writing a quite lengthy post on this topic soon. In the meantime, I am happy to answer any specific questions about PoF or Kant vs. the World. I know the latter is quite philosophically involved. It is all about discovering the Thinking-core within us by careful observation of thinking, i.e. the Christ who lives in us.

[TriloByte]

Thanks, Ashvin. I have enough material to think about on what you have said here and in your essays, And yes, it is sure that I’m going to raise more questions.

[Cardenio]

Ashvin, thank you for your thought. What you say sounds good, all our movements would be a permanent connection and, in that sense, a prayer.

I made the question because usually what is understood as a prayer is a set of words, I thought that may be there is in SS a specific prayers or method to say a prayer. From what you say, I deduce that it is intentionallity that makes a difference and not recipes or abstractions but concrete experience of our thinking-movement.

I already read PoF and your essay “Kant vs the world” and I am still struggling for understanding. I have not reached that stage yet, to live as you feel it, but yes, what you say makes sense.

TB,

You raise a good point. When one is seeking understanding to set out on a path of making Thinking-movements more concrete, where to start with prayer? In my experiene, there was a time after reading PoF and revisiting it a few times where I began to perceive dimly where my Thinking could go to become more concrete, because I came to understand what Thinking was, i.e. an expression of my most essential Self. I am still basically at that stage. I find that in itself is more than enough to stimulate a devotional soul mood for prayer. As Cleric often points out, prayer today is mostly conceived of as a means to gain things that we desire in a very abstract way - "I need to become better at this skill by next week, so I pray that you make me better". Instead, prayer can be a direct expression of our Thinking organism. We are sending out the ideas we form along our path as a symbol of gratitude, trusting the Spirit will return them to us and to others who we are praying for with enriched meaning. Because God first loved us, we love God. We desire to take what was given to us on the Cross, the "Ego-I" who can Think back to the Divine, and pray it forward.

These are just initial thoughts. I have a feeling Cleric is writing a quite lengthy post on this topic soon. In the meantime, I am happy to answer any specific questions about PoF or Kant vs. the World. I know the latter is quite philosophically involved. It is all about discovering the Thinking-core within us by careful observation of thinking, i.e. the Christ who lives in us.

To build on what was said: the first thing we should pray for is that we be granted the wisdom to know what to pray for. Otherwise, we risk desiring what seems good and what seems good is often contradictory to what is good. We should actually be pleased not to get what we want until we have first determined that we want the right thing. Meditating on this can leave one with a profound feeling of contentment and gratitude for the fact that we can't take off our socks before we take off our shoes.

[Cardenio]

"If all you ever say is 'thank you,' that is enough."
—Meister Eckhart

[Cleric K]

Could you elaborate more about this topic? I would really appreciate it. When you have time, of course.

Hi TB,
please take a look at my recent post here viewtopic.php?p=16093#p16093
Feel free to ask further question back here in your thread.

Ashvin, Cardenio, thank you for your contributions here. They are both continued in the above post.

[TriloByte]

To build on what was said: the first thing we should pray for is that we be granted the wisdom to know what to pray for. Otherwise, we risk desiring what seems good and what seems good is often contradictory to what is good. We should actually be pleased not to get what we want until we have first determined that we want the right thing. Meditating on this can leave one with a profound feeling of contentment and gratitude for the fact that we can't take off our socks before we take off our shoes.

Cardenio, what you say here reminds me of the serenity prayer. Thank you.

[TriloByte]

"If all you ever say is 'thank you,' that is enough."
—Meister Eckhart

No doubt. There is wisdom in those words.