(Medium) A Virtual School for the Nascent Imagination: 'By Means of a Higher Art'

[Lou Gold]

Cleric,

As perhaps a complete aside, I'm very curious about the source of the interesting "forest image" you have presented:



I strongly suspect that a forest ecologist or naturalist would quickly recognize (from the even-aged trees, regular spacing and lack of understory) that this most likely is a highly managed tree plantation (a crop system) and not a natural forest. In a sense it is already a virtual reality made materialistically real.

[Cleric K]

Cleric,

As perhaps a complete aside, I'm very curious about the source of the interesting "forest image" you have presented:

I strongly suspect that a forest ecologist or naturalist would quickly recognize (from the even-aged trees, regular spacing and lack of understory) that this most likely is a highly managed tree plantation (a crop system) and not a natural forest. In a sense it is already a virtual reality made materialistically real.

Hi Lou,

it's a completely arbitrary image (from here).

We know from fairy tales that these are recurring symbols, for example wardrobe through which we go in another world or a magic mirror through which we see another world, etc. I simply wanted to provide some illustration and this was one of the first things I googled.

Maybe I should have said that the forest symbol was not chosen by me deliberately. I'm comparing our inner world to the forest entirely in the context of the image. But still, I think that by chance it is also an appropriate symbol. Whether the image is of a forest-plantation or natural, the trees are still something living, in the same way our soul world is living reality, of which we easily forget when we're glued to the senses and most of the time see there only our human creations.

[Lou Gold]

Cleric,

As perhaps a complete aside, I'm very curious about the source of the interesting "forest image" you have presented:

I strongly suspect that a forest ecologist or naturalist would quickly recognize (from the even-aged trees, regular spacing and lack of understory) that this most likely is a highly managed tree plantation (a crop system) and not a natural forest. In a sense it is already a virtual reality made materialistically real.

Hi Lou,

it's a completely arbitrary image (from here).

We know from fairy tales that these are recurring symbols, for example wardrobe through which we go in another world or a magic mirror through which we see another world, etc. I simply wanted to provide some illustration and this was one of the first things I googled.

Maybe I should have said that the forest symbol was not chosen by me deliberately. I'm comparing our inner world to the forest entirely in the context of the image. But still, I think that by chance it is also an appropriate symbol. Whether the image is of a forest-plantation or natural, the trees are still something living, in the same way our soul world is living reality, of which we easily forget when we're glued to the senses and most of the time see there only our human creations.

Actually, I found the image rather interesting because the confusion of a plantation with a forest is already an application of a mechanistic efficiency model (here focused on industrial lumber production), which is already a significant departure from the forest soul as a living interconnected reality. Yes! The trees are still living but the ecosystem and living conditions have been vastly reduced by seeing the trees as objects/products. To see the extremes this industrial model can and has been carried to one need only look at the factory farmed living cows, pigs and chickens in Concentrated Animal Feeding Operations -- CAFOs.. I don't think that what has been lost here is so much the human soul connection as the human animal connection, a topic that is well treated by the eco-philosopher David Abram in his Becoming Animal: An Earthly Cosmology.

[AshvinP]

Cleric,

As perhaps a complete aside, I'm very curious about the source of the interesting "forest image" you have presented:

I strongly suspect that a forest ecologist or naturalist would quickly recognize (from the even-aged trees, regular spacing and lack of understory) that this most likely is a highly managed tree plantation (a crop system) and not a natural forest. In a sense it is already a virtual reality made materialistically real.

Hi Lou,

it's a completely arbitrary image (from here).

We know from fairy tales that these are recurring symbols, for example wardrobe through which we go in another world or a magic mirror through which we see another world, etc. I simply wanted to provide some illustration and this was one of the first things I googled.

Maybe I should have said that the forest symbol was not chosen by me deliberately. I'm comparing our inner world to the forest entirely in the context of the image. But still, I think that by chance it is also an appropriate symbol. Whether the image is of a forest-plantation or natural, the trees are still something living, in the same way our soul world is living reality, of which we easily forget when we're glued to the senses and most of the time see there only our human creations.

Actually, I found the image rather interesting because the confusion of a plantation with a forest is already an application of a mechanistic efficiency model (here focused on industrial lumber production), which is already a significant departure from the forest soul as a living interconnected reality. Yes! The trees are still living but the ecosystem and living conditions have been vastly reduced by seeing the trees as objects/products. To see the extremes this industrial model can and has been carried to one need only look at the factory farmed living cows, pigs and chickens in Concentrated Animal Feeding Operations -- CAFOs.. I don't think that what has been lost here is so much the human soul connection as the human animal connection, a topic that is well treated by the eco-philosopher David Abram in his Becoming Animal: An Earthly Cosmology.

Lou,

Do you see how the complete focus on the outer forms of these things is ignoring the soul dimension, both animal and human? It is true the industrial model does not account for any of these connections either, but the question is, how do we start accounting for them in our own experience without intellectual models of how the world 'really is'? Cleric was using the image as a symbol to illustrate a point about our relation to the perceptual world we see around us, but the point is lost or, at least, completely obscured from view if we instead choose to focus on the outer nature of the image itself, whether it is a plantation, natural forest, etc.

[Lou Gold]

Hi Lou,

it's a completely arbitrary image (from here).

We know from fairy tales that these are recurring symbols, for example wardrobe through which we go in another world or a magic mirror through which we see another world, etc. I simply wanted to provide some illustration and this was one of the first things I googled.

Maybe I should have said that the forest symbol was not chosen by me deliberately. I'm comparing our inner world to the forest entirely in the context of the image. But still, I think that by chance it is also an appropriate symbol. Whether the image is of a forest-plantation or natural, the trees are still something living, in the same way our soul world is living reality, of which we easily forget when we're glued to the senses and most of the time see there only our human creations.

Actually, I found the image rather interesting because the confusion of a plantation with a forest is already an application of a mechanistic efficiency model (here focused on industrial lumber production), which is already a significant departure from the forest soul as a living interconnected reality. Yes! The trees are still living but the ecosystem and living conditions have been vastly reduced by seeing the trees as objects/products. To see the extremes this industrial model can and has been carried to one need only look at the factory farmed living cows, pigs and chickens in Concentrated Animal Feeding Operations -- CAFOs.. I don't think that what has been lost here is so much the human soul connection as the human animal connection, a topic that is well treated by the eco-philosopher David Abram in his Becoming Animal: An Earthly Cosmology.

Lou,

Do you see how the complete focus on the outer forms of these things is ignoring the soul dimension, both animal and human? It is true the industrial model does not account for any of these connections either, but the question is, how do we start accounting for them in our own experience without intellectual models of how the world 'really is'? Cleric was using the image as a symbol to illustrate a point about our relation to the perceptual world we see around us, but the point is lost or, at least, completely obscured from view if we instead choose to focus on the outer nature of the image itself, whether it is a plantation, natural forest, etc.

Ashvin,

Thank you for joining into what I worried might be a side trail to your main theme. I surely grok the uses of symbols. One of my most profound perceptual experiences occurred simply by walking along (in a non-altered state) reciting, "Everything I see is a symbol of consciousness." By the time I entered a modern supermarket the transformations had become as strong as what I remember of my decades-earlier LSD adventures. Definitely an, "OH WOW!" One way to describe this state might as "mindful" but it need not be spectacular or extraordinary, it can be ordinary and fully engaged in the present moment. But, YES, perceptions relate to models and meanings relate to stories and practicing awareness of inner and outer life in balance in the present non-VR moment seems essential. I'm not a Buddhist but I find the "Ten Love Letters to Mother Earth" of Thich Nhat Hanh to be a stellar example of engaging with life/death, inner/outer, past/future as fully engaged in the present moment.

[AshvinP]

Actually, I found the image rather interesting because the confusion of a plantation with a forest is already an application of a mechanistic efficiency model (here focused on industrial lumber production), which is already a significant departure from the forest soul as a living interconnected reality. Yes! The trees are still living but the ecosystem and living conditions have been vastly reduced by seeing the trees as objects/products. To see the extremes this industrial model can and has been carried to one need only look at the factory farmed living cows, pigs and chickens in Concentrated Animal Feeding Operations -- CAFOs.. I don't think that what has been lost here is so much the human soul connection as the human animal connection, a topic that is well treated by the eco-philosopher David Abram in his Becoming Animal: An Earthly Cosmology.

Lou,

Do you see how the complete focus on the outer forms of these things is ignoring the soul dimension, both animal and human? It is true the industrial model does not account for any of these connections either, but the question is, how do we start accounting for them in our own experience without intellectual models of how the world 'really is'? Cleric was using the image as a symbol to illustrate a point about our relation to the perceptual world we see around us, but the point is lost or, at least, completely obscured from view if we instead choose to focus on the outer nature of the image itself, whether it is a plantation, natural forest, etc.

Ashvin,

Thank you for joining into what I worried might be a side trail to your main theme. I surely grok the uses of symbols. One of my most profound perceptual experiences occurred simply by walking along (in a non-altered state) reciting, "Everything I see is a symbol of consciousness." By the time I entered a modern supermarket the transformations had become as strong as what I remember of my decades-earlier LSD adventures. Definitely an, "OH WOW!" One way to describe this state might as "mindful" but it need not be spectacular or extraordinary, it can be ordinary and fully engaged in the present moment. But, YES, perceptions relate to models and meanings relate to stories and practicing awareness of inner and outer life in balance in the present non-VR moment seems essential. I'm not a Buddhist but I find the "Ten Love Letters to Mother Earth" of Thich Nhat Hanh to be a stellar example of engaging with life/death, inner/outer, past/future as fully engaged in the present moment.

Lou,

Not a problem. All side thought-trails can lead back to Zion if we try hard enough

I think this will be the most challenging issue for people, especially young people - the question of what it means to be "proactive" in the world and "take a stand" against the forces which threaten to continue fragmenting us from each other, from Nature, and from the Cosmos. Even as I sit here now, there is a distinct feeling that all I can see around me is solid, concrete, actionable, useful, etc., while my ideas, even the most well-reasoned and holistic ones, lack efficacy in the world. When we get to the level of soul-forces, most of which escape my conscious intellect, forget about it. There is a sense that my logical reasoning, perhaps even my Imagination, is powerless in the face of the 'mighty' sense-world. My most conscious thoughts about the Cosmos feel weak and feeble, let alone my mostly subconscious imaginations, inspirations, and intuitions.

Yet there are dire circumstances all around the world, and within my own culture and communities, so it seems the only logical options are to market my own ideas, advertise them, write books, join an activist group, form a political action committee, take to social media, and perhaps even take more extreme measures in the sense-world. It has already proven the greatest challenge for people to resist these tendencies over the last 100 years. The monstrous forces which erupted in the world wars, the communist revolutions, the genocides, etc., are still with us and bubbling ever closer to the surface. To turn inwards and look into the soul-spirit depths seems the most unhelpful thing at a time like this. This is the mental habit we need to break and it is much easier said than done. For every post we write here, 90% isn't read, 90% of what is read is not understood, 90% of what is understood is understood in the most abstract way, etc.

One thing I have noticed is that people of all metaphysical and spiritual persuasions are looking for shortcuts and easy fixes. Take John Michael Greer, the Archdruid. He is eloquent, brilliant, insightful, and very spiritually-oriented, but anything that speaks of grinding out a better world through the gradual climb of our own spiritual evolution is equated to "myth of progress", while his quick magical fixes are the way to navigate the collapse. We know this is not the way the Cosmos works when we encounter it. I check the weather each day because I know, no matter how much I say, "it is all manifestations of Consciousness and I am One with this Consciousness", there is no willing the storms away, and I suspect magical rituals will not do the trick either, at least not in any overall healthy and productive way.

The only way which makes sense to my Reason is the one born of patience, persistence, clear thinking, gratitude, and good will, yet my senses, reinforced by our sense-based enviroments, keep telling me none of these things have real power in the world. Who am I to trust? It will take great and constant vigilance to navigate this minefield. Yet I can at least take heart in the fact that others have done it before me and others are doing it with me, including right here on this forum.

[Lou Gold]

Lou,

Do you see how the complete focus on the outer forms of these things is ignoring the soul dimension, both animal and human? It is true the industrial model does not account for any of these connections either, but the question is, how do we start accounting for them in our own experience without intellectual models of how the world 'really is'? Cleric was using the image as a symbol to illustrate a point about our relation to the perceptual world we see around us, but the point is lost or, at least, completely obscured from view if we instead choose to focus on the outer nature of the image itself, whether it is a plantation, natural forest, etc.

Ashvin,

Thank you for joining into what I worried might be a side trail to your main theme. I surely grok the uses of symbols. One of my most profound perceptual experiences occurred simply by walking along (in a non-altered state) reciting, "Everything I see is a symbol of consciousness." By the time I entered a modern supermarket the transformations had become as strong as what I remember of my decades-earlier LSD adventures. Definitely an, "OH WOW!" One way to describe this state might as "mindful" but it need not be spectacular or extraordinary, it can be ordinary and fully engaged in the present moment. But, YES, perceptions relate to models and meanings relate to stories and practicing awareness of inner and outer life in balance in the present non-VR moment seems essential. I'm not a Buddhist but I find the "Ten Love Letters to Mother Earth" of Thich Nhat Hanh to be a stellar example of engaging with life/death, inner/outer, past/future as fully engaged in the present moment.

Lou,

Not a problem. All side thought-trails can lead back to Zion if we try hard enough

I think this will be the most challenging issue for people, especially young people - the question of what it means to be "proactive" in the world and "take a stand" against the forces which threaten to continue fragmenting us from each other, from Nature, and from the Cosmos. Even as I sit here now, there is a distinct feeling that all I can see around me is solid, concrete, actionable, useful, etc., while my ideas, even the most well-reasoned and holistic ones, lack efficacy in the world. When we get to the level of soul-forces, most of which escape my conscious intellect, forget about it. There is a sense that my logical reasoning, perhaps even my Imagination, is powerless in the face of the 'mighty' sense-world. My most conscious thoughts about the Cosmos feel weak and feeble, let alone my mostly subconscious imaginations, inspirations, and intuitions.

Yet there are dire circumstances all around the world, and within my own culture and communities, so it seems the only logical options are to market my own ideas, advertise them, write books, join an activist group, form a political action committee, take to social media, and perhaps even take more extreme measures in the sense-world. It has already proven the greatest challenge for people to resist these tendencies over the last 100 years. The monstrous forces which erupted in the world wars, the communist revolutions, the genocides, etc., are still with us and bubbling ever closer to the surface. To turn inwards and look into the soul-spirit depths seems the most unhelpful thing at a time like this. This is the mental habit we need to break and it is much easier said than done. For every post we write here, 90% isn't read, 90% of what is read is not understood, 90% of what is understood is understood in the most abstract way, etc.

One thing I have noticed is that people of all metaphysical and spiritual persuasions are looking for shortcuts and easy fixes. Take John Michael Greer, the Archdruid. He is eloquent, brilliant, insightful, and very spiritually-oriented, but anything that speaks of grinding out a better world through the gradual climb of our own spiritual evolution is equated to "myth of progress", while his quick magical fixes are the way to navigate the collapse. We know this is not the way the Cosmos works when we encounter it. I check the weather each day because I know, no matter how much I say, "it is all manifestations of Consciousness and I am One with this Consciousness", there is no willing the storms away, and I suspect magical rituals will not do the trick either, at least not in any overall healthy and productive way.

The only way which makes sense to my Reason is the one born of patience, persistence, clear thinking, gratitude, and good will, yet my senses, reinforced by our sense-based enviroments, keep telling me none of these things have real power in the world. Who am I to trust? It will take great and constant vigilance to navigate this minefield. Yet I can at least take heart in the fact that others have done it before me and others are doing it with me, including right here on this forum.

As a confession and not as a criticism, it's starting to feel intellectual and analytical to me. Rather than escape from my senses because they can be and are often limited I would rather hone in and expand my sensibility and sensitivity knowing that peace and harmony and wholeness and truth have a feel to them, which I can grok in my relational moments and use such sensibilities as my guide. I know that it sounds trite, but I believe I'm not a human becoming spiritual as much as a spirit becoming human within a co-arising manifestation. I don't know if this is analytically or intellectually satisfying. Indeed, I doubt that it will be for many. Nevertheless, it may make sense to some for whom I am incredibly grateful for feeling as I do and helping me avoid the craziness of thinking I'm the only one.

[AshvinP]

As a confession and not as a criticism, it's starting to feel intellectual and analytical to me. Rather than escape from my senses because they can be and are often limited I would rather hone in and expand my sensibility and sensitivity knowing that peace and harmony and wholeness and truth have a feel to them, which I can grok in my relational moments and use such sensibilities as my guide. I know that it sounds trite, but I believe I'm not a human becoming spiritual as much as a spirit becoming human within a co-arising manifestation. I don't know if this is analytically or intellectually satisfying. Indeed, I doubt that it will be for many. Nevertheless, it may make sense to some for whom I am incredibly grateful for feeling as I do and helping me avoid the craziness of thinking I'm the only one.

Thanks, Lou, and I think your comment really cuts to the heart of the matter. What you write above is natural for you, someone who has lived a long, full life and has employed his intellect and imagination in what I am sure is many productive ways for yourself and your communities over the years. I probably made my post a little too personalized, but I was trying to highlight what it a very common attitude among my generation and younger ones. It is precisely what you say. Thinking is too intellectual, too analytical, too much dry verbal chatter, too abstract, too divorced from our sense-experience, too divided from our feelings. And it most definitely is for most people, most of the time. Perhaps all of the time. The tragedy is that it's assumed this must be the case, that there is no other option for thinking. How many potential worlds are being lost because the seeds of living ideas will never be planted and allowed to grow, as they naturally do? For what reason? Only because it is assumed, not even consciously assumed, but unconsciously assumed, that ideas can no longer have life. That they cannot be the germs of creative evolution. Ideas are only placeholders, time-wasters, empty husks of meaning. This - "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life." - sounds practically meaningless to my generation and younger. That is the issue which must be confronted by each individual who is still blessed with an intellect to develop and an imagination to realize, sooner rather than later.

[Lou Gold]

As a confession and not as a criticism, it's starting to feel intellectual and analytical to me. Rather than escape from my senses because they can be and are often limited I would rather hone in and expand my sensibility and sensitivity knowing that peace and harmony and wholeness and truth have a feel to them, which I can grok in my relational moments and use such sensibilities as my guide. I know that it sounds trite, but I believe I'm not a human becoming spiritual as much as a spirit becoming human within a co-arising manifestation. I don't know if this is analytically or intellectually satisfying. Indeed, I doubt that it will be for many. Nevertheless, it may make sense to some for whom I am incredibly grateful for feeling as I do and helping me avoid the craziness of thinking I'm the only one.

Thanks, Lou, and I think your comment really cuts to the heart of the matter. What you write above is natural for you, someone who has lived a long, full life and has employed his intellect and imagination in what I am sure is many productive ways for yourself and your communities over the years. I probably made my post a little too personalized, but I was trying to highlight what it a very common attitude among my generation and younger ones. It is precisely what you say. Thinking is too intellectual, too analytical, too much dry verbal chatter, too abstract, too divorced from our sense-experience, too divided from our feelings. And it most definitely is for most people, most of the time. Perhaps all of the time. The tragedy is that it's assumed this must be the case, that there is no other option for thinking. How many potential worlds are being lost because the seeds of living ideas will never be planted and allowed to grow, as they naturally do? For what reason? Only because it is assumed, not even consciously assumed, but unconsciously assumed, that ideas can no longer have life. That they cannot be the germs of creative evolution. Ideas are only placeholders, time-wasters, empty husks of meaning. This - "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life." - sounds practically meaningless to my generation and younger. That is the issue which must be confronted by each individual who is still blessed with an intellect to develop and an imagination to realize, sooner rather than later.

Thank you Ashvin for your kind words, for your search for truth and for your desire to share your process. My process continues to unfold day by day with an ever increasing richness. I've been deeply immersed in the sensibilities associated with the passage of Thich Nhat Hanh, watching the ceremonies on Youtube, reviewing the teachings and following along with appreciations such as this one...



Awareness is such a glorious no-thing.
So be it. For all our relatives. Amen.

[Lou Gold]

PS:

I think these images well display how the unMANaged soul of nature functions...



Scenes of Nature's reclamation

Interestingly, the human exclusion zone surrounding Chernobyl has become an unexpected haven for wildlife.

Lynn Margulis was surely right. "GAIA IS A TOUGH BITCH"