Philosophical Speculations

Mainly focusing on Jung, re meaning and synchronicity, though not exclusively, some may find this worth a listen. But 'The Sacred Speaks' channel also has some other intriguing interviews, many focused on healing trauma, that appear to be worth checking out.

Good interview.
This quote is noteworthy, considering the discussions whether BK is drifting into nihilistic territory or not.

So Jung basically was saying "Nature works as a mind. It's performing cognitive associations. Some of those express themselves in the form
we call causuality but if you look deeper with a microscope you realize that they are actually associations of meaning. And that's all there is; Associations of meaning." (~ 1:28:05 )

Martin_ wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 1:31 am Good interview.
This quote is noteworthy, considering the discussions whether BK is drifting into nihilistic territory or not.

So Jung basically was saying "Nature works as a mind. It's performing cognitive associations. Some of those express themselves in the form
we call causuality but if you look deeper with a microscope you realize that they are actually associations of meaning. And that's all there is; Associations of meaning." (~ 1:28:05 )

It comes down to this - is it all intellectual theory or something more? True, we have to communicate with the intellect and its concepts. I have to as much as anyone else here. That is all the more reason to persistently give reminders and make analogies which relate the concepts to the higher meaning they are intended to point towards. "That's all there is... associations of meaning" doesn't cut it. In fact, it's worse than saying, "there is matter, energy, minerals, plants, animals, humans" and detailing their various interactions, even in physical terms. The "it's all meaning and that's that" approach is even more nihilistic than scientism.

Idealism says mind does not come from matter but the other way around. This did not initially arise in philosophy as a way of saying, "you materialists are silly... it's all mind! We are smarter than you." That's what analytical idealism has become. It is little more than intellectual pride. Idealism arose because some people could discern the complete inversion of matter and spirit, perception and meaning which was taking place. It knew that a more robust and pedagogical science and aesthetics could emerge through righting that ship via sound philosophy.

Whete is that in analytic idealism? Does anyone see that? Where is the alternative idealist form to reductive evolutionary theory? Where are the theories on how meaning gives rise to perception? I'm really asking. Maybe it's in this interview I haven't watched yet. Maybe someone can show me what BK is saying beyond, "it's all mind and meaning". Jung certainly took it further than that. I think we are fortunate he didn't pursue analytic philosophy above psychology. The latter still had at least some respect for the scientific method.

Actually the question is: is it intellectual theory or less (as in simple, easy snd for anyone)

AshvinP wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 3:32 am I'm really asking. Maybe it's in this interview I haven't watched yet. Maybe someone can show me what BK is saying beyond, "it's all mind and meaning". Jung certainly took it further than that. I think we are fortunate he didn't pursue analytic philosophy above psychology. The latter still had at least some respect for the scientific method.

No, you will be disappointed as ever with BK's spin on it, which is as pessimistic, and at times cynical, as ever about humankind's prospects. Towards the end, multiple times he restates that humans are not much better than highly intellectual monkeys, yet still slaves to our base instincts, with little hope of evolving beyond that in any given lifetime, or truly grasping any transcendent Gnosis. At best, as any given psyche is bound for extinction—something he actually looks forward to as a relief from one's suffering-prone neurosis and flaws, as if one's unresolved karmic shadow isn't carried forward—only through a very long process of trial and error will M@L eventually figure out how to conceive a better iteration of a more highly evolved creature than humankind, perhaps on some other planet. In that regard, I have to agree that his vision for humankind, seemingly headed towards some kind of Blade Runner dystopia, is not any improvement over what materialism has to offer. As for the notion of there being some eternal oversoul that experiences multiple incarnations, with the possibility of some Christ-like redemption and transfiguration being available here and now, I expect he finds that to be some self-deluding story our feeble minds make up to feel better about our fate, and that the likes of someone like Steiner is a glaring example of that tendency, with his claims about accessing occult knowledge that will lead us out of this dismal conundrum. So despite some intriguing insights into Jung's visionary ideas, this interview does not supersede what we have come to expect from the highly circumspect BK.

Soul_of_Shu wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 2:48 pm

AshvinP wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 3:32 am I'm really asking. Maybe it's in this interview I haven't watched yet. Maybe someone can show me what BK is saying beyond, "it's all mind and meaning". Jung certainly took it further than that. I think we are fortunate he didn't pursue analytic philosophy above psychology. The latter still had at least some respect for the scientific method.

No, you will be disappointed as ever with BK's spin on it, which is as pessimistic, and at times cynical, as ever about humankind's prospects. Towards the end, multiple times he restates that humans are not much better than highly intellectual monkeys, yet still slaves to our base instincts, with little hope of evolving beyond that in any given lifetime, or truly grasping any transcendent Gnosis. At best, as any given psyche is bound for extinction—something he actually looks forward to as a relief from one's suffering-prone neurosis and flaws, as if one's unresolved karmic shadow isn't carried forward—only through a very long process of trial and error will M@L eventually figure out how to conceive a better iteration of a more highly evolved creature than humankind, perhaps on some other planet. In that regard, I have to agree that his vision for humankind, seemingly headed towards some kind of Blade Runner dystopia, is not any improvement over what materialism has to offer. As for the notion of there being some eternal oversoul that experiences multiple incarnations, with the possibility of some Christ-like redemption and transfiguration being available here and now, I expect he finds that to be some self-deluding story our feeble minds make up to feel better about our fate, and that the likes of someone like Steiner is a glaring example of that tendency, with his claims about accessing occult knowledge that will lead us out of this dismal conundrum. So despite some intriguing insights into Jung's visionary ideas, this interview does not supersede what we have come to expect from the highly circumspect BK.

Thanks for that precise yet compact summary, Dana. It is rather disturbing to witness just how willing people, educated philosophers at that, are to create self-fulfilling prophecies in this manner. I am not very optimistic about the near-terms trends of human culture either, but precisely because people resign themselves to BK's cynicism and feel that is some sort of victory. Something to be proud of, even. Meanwhile, his view is an exact reflection of the physicalist and nihilist views he claims to "fight against". More evolved monkeys, fundamentally deluded by our reasoned ideals. BK used his reason to arrive at this conclusion, yet he also claims all reasoned conclusions are self-deluding stories we tell ourselves. But his cynical conclusions, and anyone who shares those cynical conclusions, are the only exception? It's obvious what is happening here - pure egoic pride.

I am not very optimistic about the near-term trends of human culture either

I would very much enjoy reading your medium and long-term prophecies, Ash.

Soul_of_Shu wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 2:48 pm

AshvinP wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 3:32 am I'm really asking. Maybe it's in this interview I haven't watched yet. Maybe someone can show me what BK is saying beyond, "it's all mind and meaning". Jung certainly took it further than that. I think we are fortunate he didn't pursue analytic philosophy above psychology. The latter still had at least some respect for the scientific method.

No, you will be disappointed as ever with BK's spin on it, which is as pessimistic, and at times cynical, as ever about humankind's prospects. Towards the end, multiple times he restates that humans are not much better than highly intellectual monkeys, yet still slaves to our base instincts, with little hope of evolving beyond that in any given lifetime, or truly grasping any transcendent Gnosis. At best, as any given psyche is bound for extinction—something he actually looks forward to as a relief from one's suffering-prone neurosis and flaws, as if one's unresolved karmic shadow isn't carried forward—only through a very long process of trial and error will M@L eventually figure out how to conceive a better iteration of a more highly evolved creature than humankind, perhaps on some other planet. In that regard, I have to agree that his vision for humankind, seemingly headed towards some kind of Blade Runner dystopia, is not any improvement over what materialism has to offer. As for the notion of there being some eternal oversoul that experiences multiple incarnations, with the possibility of some Christ-like redemption and transfiguration being available here and now, I expect he finds that to be some self-deluding story our feeble minds make up to feel better about our fate, and that the likes of someone like Steiner is a glaring example of that tendency, with his claims about accessing occult knowledge that will lead us out of this dismal conundrum. So despite some intriguing insights into Jung's visionary ideas, this interview does not supersede what we have come to expect from the highly circumspect BK.

Sorry. Disagree. I think this is a huge misrepresentation of what was discussed and said in this cast. Projection ALERT!

Martin_ wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 8:23 pm

Soul_of_Shu wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 2:48 pm

AshvinP wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 3:32 am I'm really asking. Maybe it's in this interview I haven't watched yet. Maybe someone can show me what BK is saying beyond, "it's all mind and meaning". Jung certainly took it further than that. I think we are fortunate he didn't pursue analytic philosophy above psychology. The latter still had at least some respect for the scientific method.

No, you will be disappointed as ever with BK's spin on it, which is as pessimistic, and at times cynical, as ever about humankind's prospects. Towards the end, multiple times he restates that humans are not much better than highly intellectual monkeys, yet still slaves to our base instincts, with little hope of evolving beyond that in any given lifetime, or truly grasping any transcendent Gnosis. At best, as any given psyche is bound for extinction—something he actually looks forward to as a relief from one's suffering-prone neurosis and flaws, as if one's unresolved karmic shadow isn't carried forward—only through a very long process of trial and error will M@L eventually figure out how to conceive a better iteration of a more highly evolved creature than humankind, perhaps on some other planet. In that regard, I have to agree that his vision for humankind, seemingly headed towards some kind of Blade Runner dystopia, is not any improvement over what materialism has to offer. As for the notion of there being some eternal oversoul that experiences multiple incarnations, with the possibility of some Christ-like redemption and transfiguration being available here and now, I expect he finds that to be some self-deluding story our feeble minds make up to feel better about our fate, and that the likes of someone like Steiner is a glaring example of that tendency, with his claims about accessing occult knowledge that will lead us out of this dismal conundrum. So despite some intriguing insights into Jung's visionary ideas, this interview does not supersede what we have come to expect from the highly circumspect BK.

Sorry. Disagree. I think this is a huge misrepresentation of what was discussed and said in this cast. Projection ALERT!

Thanks Marty for that oh-so-elaborate explication.

Soul_of_Shu wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 8:48 pm

Martin_ wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 8:23 pm

Soul_of_Shu wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 2:48 pm
No, you will be disappointed as ever with BK's spin on it, which is as pessimistic, and at times cynical, as ever about humankind's prospects. Towards the end, multiple times he restates that humans are not much better than highly intellectual monkeys, yet still slaves to our base instincts, with little hope of evolving beyond that in any given lifetime, or truly grasping any transcendent Gnosis. At best, as any given psyche is bound for extinction—something he actually looks forward to as a relief from one's suffering-prone neurosis and flaws, as if one's unresolved karmic shadow isn't carried forward—only through a very long process of trial and error will M@L eventually figure out how to conceive a better iteration of a more highly evolved creature than humankind, perhaps on some other planet. In that regard, I have to agree that his vision for humankind, seemingly headed towards some kind of Blade Runner dystopia, is not any improvement over what materialism has to offer. As for the notion of there being some eternal oversoul that experiences multiple incarnations, with the possibility of some Christ-like redemption and transfiguration being available here and now, I expect he finds that to be some self-deluding story our feeble minds make up to feel better about our fate, and that the likes of someone like Steiner is a glaring example of that tendency, with his claims about accessing occult knowledge that will lead us out of this dismal conundrum. So despite some intriguing insights into Jung's visionary ideas, this interview does not supersede what we have come to expect from the highly circumspect BK.

Sorry. Disagree. I think this is a huge misrepresentation of what was discussed and said in this cast. Projection ALERT!

Thanks Marty for that oh-so-elaborate explication.

Just putting it out there so ppl check their video and form their own opinion. That's all.