Probably 'torture' for Ashvin. Near the outset at 16:35 Mishlove notes that due to BK's background in technology, "you must have at one time been a hardcore materialist." BK responds, "Not really hardcore ... no ... because ... the moment I started thinking about metaphysics, materialism or what else, it doesn't take long for you to realize that it doesn't add up ... I was a materialist when I wasn't thinking about it." So much for the assertion that BK has rejected thinking and reason as a path toward realization.
Re: How about 3 hrs plus of Mishlove with BK and his Daemon?
Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2022 3:17 am
by AshvinP
Lou Gold wrote: ↑Sat Feb 26, 2022 6:16 am
Probably 'torture' for Ashvin. Near the outset at 16:35 Mishlove notes that due to BK's background in technology, "you must have at one time been a hardcore materialist." BK responds, "Not really hardcore ... no ... because ... the moment I started thinking about metaphysics, materialism or what else, it doesn't take long for you to realize that it doesn't add up ... I was a materialist when I wasn't thinking about it." So much for the assertion that BK has rejected thinking and reason as a path toward realization.
You haven't understood the argument, Lou. No one stops thinking. Thinking, in its highest essence, is Life itself. It is the Logos, the primordial Spirit. We literally cannot live, grow, or evolve without it, and neither can any other beings within the Cosmic organism.
As we keep saying, this isn't about intellectual theories. It is fundamentally about the soul-forces which are steering around our thinking. The soul-forces imbued in modern philosophy are those of the selfish intellectual ego - it wants all the benefits of thinking without any of the responsibility which naturally comes from re-cognizing the proper life-giving function of Thinking. That is why it denies the utility and revelatory power of Thinking while simulataneously using thinking to make that denial. This massive self-contradiction does not bother it, because it isn't motivated by logical coherence, Truth, Beauty, or Goodness. It is motivated by the desire to use its thinking capacity only to speculate mechanically in circular loops of abstract concepts and opinions, as a means of expressing its own desires and feelings. The Cosmic depth structure, the Divine Willing-Feeling-Thinking organism, gets reduced to its own localized desires and feelings at any given time. I don't need to listen to this interview to know that BK will be channeling that egoic thinking yet again, as he was on Twitter last night.
Re: How about 3 hrs plus of Mishlove with BK and his Daemon?
Lou Gold wrote: ↑Sat Feb 26, 2022 6:16 am
Probably 'torture' for Ashvin. Near the outset at 16:35 Mishlove notes that due to BK's background in technology, "you must have at one time been a hardcore materialist." BK responds, "Not really hardcore ... no ... because ... the moment I started thinking about metaphysics, materialism or what else, it doesn't take long for you to realize that it doesn't add up ... I was a materialist when I wasn't thinking about it." So much for the assertion that BK has rejected thinking and reason as a path toward realization.
You haven't understood the argument, Lou. No one stops thinking. Thinking, in its highest essence, is Life itself. It is the Logos, the primordial Spirit. We literally cannot live, grow, or evolve without it, and neither can any other beings within the Cosmic organism.
As we keep saying, this isn't about intellectual theories. It is fundamentally about the soul-forces which are steering around our thinking. The soul-forces imbued in modern philosophy are those of the selfish intellectual ego - it wants all the benefits of thinking without any of the responsibility which naturally comes from re-cognizing the proper life-giving function of Thinking. That is why it denies the utility and revelatory power of Thinking while simulataneously using thinking to make that denial. This massive self-contradiction does not bother it, because it isn't motivated by logical coherence, Truth, Beauty, or Goodness. It is motivated by the desire to use its thinking capacity only to speculate mechanically in circular loops of abstract concepts and opinions, as a means of expressing its own desires and feelings. The Cosmic depth structure, the Divine Willing-Feeling-Thinking organism, gets reduced to its own localized desires and feelings at any given time. I don't need to listen to this interview to know that BK will be channeling that egoic thinking yet again, as he was on Twitter last night.
OK. I don't disagree about the limits and tendencies of intellectual thinking. I see a process in which the existential despair it generates is a driving force toward that which transcends individualist pain/pleasure. My name for that transcendence is "faith". I believe that there are many routes toward it and it arrives as a grace or divine gift. I do not believe that Analytic Idealism has arrived at that transcendent state. That said, I compassionately grok the desire to find a godless lingo to arrive at God because such an arrival would produce a compelling story for a modern suffering age. Although I understand their conceptual ambition, 'whirlpools' and 'dashboards' don't meet the grade for me. Personally, I feel humbled and terribly fortunate to have received the gift of faith in less problematic ways.
Re: How about 3 hrs plus of Mishlove with BK and his Daemon?
Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2022 1:19 pm
by Soul_of_Shu
AshvinP wrote: ↑Sun Feb 27, 2022 3:17 am
... on Twitter last night.
Here's me nowadays following BK on twitter, the graveyard of gnosis ...
Re: How about 3 hrs plus of Mishlove with BK and his Daemon?
AshvinP wrote: ↑Sun Feb 27, 2022 3:17 am
... on Twitter last night.
Here's me nowadays following BK on twitter, the graveyard of gnosis ...
Dana,
I may be way ignorant of what you and Ashvin are referencing due to the fact that I don't follow anyone on Twitter, however, I'm honestly baffled that my read of Bernardo's recent comments (posted with the Ukraine flag) seems so different. I see a guy, like lots of intellectuals who are being shaken out of high-minded detachment by current events.
I can't help wondering if that high-minded detachment also appears in many of the discussions and the ethos of this forum, which (horrors, it's Lou again) passionately avoids politics? My read is that there's a serious weakness if metaphysical speculation avoids practical messy reality. Volodymyr Zelensky, the unlikely Jewish comedian become courageous Ukraine President is emerging as a wake up call in Europe and the world. When the US Embassy offered to provide safe passage out of the war zone he now-famously said, "I need ammunition, not a ride." I think he's worth a couple praise-worthy photos here:
Re: How about 3 hrs plus of Mishlove with BK and his Daemon?
I may be way ignorant of what you and Ashvin are referencing due to the fact that I don't follow anyone on Twitter ...
Indeed you are, as I was not referencing anything about what you are referencing, but mostly about his exchange/pissing match in recent hours with Sabine Hossenfelder.
Re: How about 3 hrs plus of Mishlove with BK and his Daemon?
I may be way ignorant of what you and Ashvin are referencing due to the fact that I don't follow anyone on Twitter, however, I'm honestly baffled that my read of Bernardo's recent comments (posted with the Ukraine flag) seems so different. I see a guy, like lots of intellectuals who are being shaken out of high-minded detachment by current events.
I can't help wondering if that high-minded detachment also appears in many of the discussions and the ethos of this forum, which (horrors, it's Lou again) passionately avoids politics? My read is that there's a serious weakness if metaphysical speculation avoids practical messy reality. Volodymyr Zelensky, the unlikely Jewish comedian become courageous Ukraine President is emerging as a wake up call in Europe and the world. When the US Embassy offered to provide safe passage out of the war zone he now-famously said, "I need ammunition, not a ride." I think he's worth a couple praise-worthy photos here:
Lou,
Twitter is full of people who make comments, post photos, memes, etc. as a way of expressing their own feelings, desires, and opinions on every topic, most of which they have probably never taken the time to even attempt to understand. These people do not think their memes and photos are going to actually influence the situation in Ukraine in a positive way, or any other situation for that matter, but rather they crave virtual 'pats on the back' for how "virtuous" and "empathetic" they are signaling themselves to be. This is what has taken the place of humility, i.e. recognition of all that which we do not yet know about ourselves and the world, gratitude that we have been blessed with the capacity to know through the Incarnation of human reason, and genuine thinking effort towards knowing through that reasoning faculty. What was once self-sacrificial spiritual activity of knowing has become pure virtual hedonism. No one is being shaken out of anything with these displays of "empathy". They are simply entrenching themselves further in the egoistic consumer culture, with its on-demand opinions and speculative commentary, while appeasing their guilty conscience. This strategy has diminishing returns, though, and I think that is evident with many of the "public intellectuals" we have today. Expressions of our own feelings and desires on every topic will not weave our individuality into the holistic meaning of the Cosmos. It will not shine the light of consciousness on the shadows, terrors, and abysses of the world. That only comes through the inner light of higher Thinking. The word "only" here is being used in the same sense as, "only drinking water will satisfy a person's thirst". We are involved in a deeply structured reality and therefore our localized wants, likes, dislikes, speculations, etc. will not bend the structure of that reality to our own egoic intellect.
Re: How about 3 hrs plus of Mishlove with BK and his Daemon?
Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2022 9:03 pm
by Soul_of_Shu
AshvinP wrote: ↑Sun Feb 27, 2022 8:50 pm
Twitter is full of people who make comments, post photos, memes, etc. as a way of expressing their own feelings, desires, and opinions on every topic ...
And why we don't need this forum to be just some extension of that.
Re: How about 3 hrs plus of Mishlove with BK and his Daemon?
I may be way ignorant of what you and Ashvin are referencing due to the fact that I don't follow anyone on Twitter ...
Indeed you are, as I was not referencing anything about what you are referencing, but mostly about his exchange/pissing match in recent hours with Sabine Hossenfelder.
Dana,
OK. I'm unaware of twitter but surely recognize that there's in BK's character a strong appetite for pissing matches. One thing I've liked about some of recent more personal interviews is that BK has confessed an awareness of this. Evidently, he gets a lot of personal feedback urging him to change and he can't do it yet. I guess I've found the interviews rich because they've given me a much deeper insight into the piece of nature called Bernardo Kastrup. I disagree with many of his positions and appreciate his willingness to be self-revealing.
