Meaning of life

[Freefrommainstream]

What is the sense of life then?
Beaming yourself away from the physical world, not in the sense of suicide but in the sense of meditating and getting rid of desires. If our brain works to much then we can not know what reality is. In our life we think and want, every of our senses works. But if we completely go on standby ( f.e in a meditative state) you will feel what reality is, reality is nothing. In my opinion the afterlife is a lucid dreamstate which is formed by our desires and wishes, the ultimate goal is to destroy them and having no self anymore.

How do we apply that to the physical world?
We should meditate and beam our experience and conciousness completely away. Because we are born in a physical world we can not completely dissolve but we can prepare ourselves for the lucid dreamstate that follows our "death". The physical world is just a trap which gives you no freedom, because if you are free you are not trapped in a cycle
Why do I call it a cycle?
If we do something then another action follows and then another action follows and so on. Doing is a cycle which will never end, if you try to do "nothing" you will be bored because doing nothing is not possible in the physical world. Do you call this freedom? This cycle goes into the infinite and it will never end. In my little book called " On infinity and the life" there is a sentence which I want to cite " The endless cycle of life is an infinite way , we will lie to ourselves and find a reason to go him"
: *My book*
I will post my little book separately because it is entirely in german I will translate it, this will take some time.
*Disclaimer*
This text does not justify suicide it just shows that we should dissolve our ego to be nothing in our "afterlife"

[AshvinP]

What is the sense of life then?
Beaming yourself away from the physical world, not in the sense of suicide but in the sense of meditating and getting rid of desires. If our brain works to much then we can not know what reality is. In our life we think and want, every of our senses works. But if we completely go on standby ( f.e in a meditative state) you will feel what reality is, reality is nothing. In my opinion the afterlife is a lucid dreamstate which is formed by our desires and wishes, the ultimate goal is to destroy them and having no self anymore.

How do we apply that to the physical world?
We should meditate and beam our experience and conciousness completely away. Because we are born in a physical world we can not completely dissolve but we can prepare ourselves for the lucid dreamstate that follows our "death". The physical world is just a trap which gives you no freedom, because if you are free you are not trapped in a cycle
Why do I call it a cycle?
If we do something then another action follows and then another action follows and so on. Doing is a cycle which will never end, if you try to do "nothing" you will be bored because doing nothing is not possible in the physical world. Do you call this freedom? This cycle goes into the infinite and it will never end. In my little book called " On infinity and the life" there is a sentence which I want to cite " The endless cycle of life is an infinite way , we will lie to ourselves and find a reason to go him"
: *My book*
I will post my little book separately because it is entirely in german I will translate it, this will take some time.
*Disclaimer*
This text does not justify suicide it just shows that we should dissolve our ego to be nothing in our "afterlife"

21st century materialism, fundamentalism, and mysticism, all embrace an anti-life escapist approach. They are manifestations of the same reduction of higher worlds into intellectual concepts. In modern mystical practice, the person forgets they were the ones who willed themselves into the blissful state and dissociated from their own active agency. No matter what, there is always still the desire to enter into the mystical state and the desire to remain there. In this state, all experience is still within the framework of current intellectual thinking. The experience can only be interpreted in terms of the concepts already possessed by the intellect (or, more accurately, possessing the intellect). This is what leads to the duality between "pure desire-free awareness" and the world of reasoned experience through the senses. From there, it is quite evident why people feel the only solution to the 'tyranny of the senses' is to escape the world altogether, by 'rapture' or mystical experience or 'transhuman' technology and/or passively waiting for death. If it was realized the desiring-thinking is still present in the mystical state, only dissociated from our agency, then it would also be realized that there is no guarantee, or even likelihood, that the overarching context of desires, feelings, thoughts informing all experience will simply disappear after death. The only 'escape' is to lapse into complete unconsciousness while the World Evolution continues.

The idea of ending the reincarnation cycle is by working off on our own Karma, which is intimately connected with the Karma of all other humans. This is also reflected in the Christian concept of accepting responsibility for the 'sins of the world', bearing our Cross. We can only work off our Karma in full consciousness, by voluntarily righting the errors of our past. What we do unconsciously, instinctively, out of blind desiring and feeling, especially in mystical state, does not redeem our negative Karma. This is precisely the purpose of the physical-perceptual plane. We cannot work off our Karma by escaping this plane - we must confront it through our thinking and and thereby redeem it. So engaging in physical reality is the only way by which each individual can end their own reincarnation cycle. Abstract, mechanical intellectual thinking is not to be equated with Thinking as such. There is no reason why thoughtfully engaging in reality must be something oppressive or at odds with inner meditative tranquility. When we contemplate and appreciate flowing, symphonic music, for ex., we are intuitively engaging in higher modes of Thinking. This music unfolds according to a higher order logical structure. It is by becoming more conscious of that structure that we can redeem what only appears to be opposed - the sense-world and higher worlds of meaning - not by detaching or dissociating further or escaping, but by becoming intimately familiar with how the higher worlds of meaning precipitate into our world of sense-perception.

There are higher and lower principles, light and dark, to everything. There is lower ego and higher Ego-Self, intellectual thinking and Imagination. The oppressive cycle comes from our lack of knowledge of these dynamics. That is the same thing as our lack of knowledge of higher beings which weave together the perceptual world, i.e. the primeval Wisdom responsible for the dynamics. The lower ego, the intellectual soul, was necessary for human freedom - for humans to freely choose to follow higher principles out of their innermost desire. Freedom does not come from abandoning desire, but transfiguring it. This is how fate becomes freedom, water turns into wine, fission becomes fusion, etc. (the metaphors are infinite). It is how the Cosmos of Wisdom becomes the Cosmos of Love. Love can only develop in full clarity of consciousness, not a dream-like state of humanity which was only appropriate many thousands of years ago. We do not need to return to the womb of instinctive consciousness, but be born again into higher (more conscious) existence. There is really no escaping even if we wanted to. We can either lapse into mechanistic unconsciousness as the Cosmic evolution continues without us, or we can actively participate in its manifestations of existential meaning.

...humanity needs to be given something today that truly changes the present state of soul to the same extent as the dreamer's state of soul changes to being fully awake and alive for the day, when he wakes in the morning.

People hear of deeply significant things that must inevitably lead to ruin, to decline and fall, and they do not even feel indignation. Things are going on in the world, intentions are alive in German lands that should horrify people — yet they do not. Anyone incapable of being horrified at these things also lacks the power to develop a sense of truth.

It has to be pointed out that healthy indignation over things that are not healthy should be the source and origin of enthusiasm, of the new truths that are needed. It is actually less important to convey truths to people than it is to bring fiery energy into their lethargic nervous systems. Fiery energy is needed today, not mystical sleep.

- Steiner, Polarities in Evolution (1920)

[lorenzop]

You seemingly are tryin go to clean up claims such as ‘beam away the world’ and getting rid of desires-claims or goals no one is claiming, at least not here in these forums.

[Freefrommainstream]

You seemingly are tryin go to clean up claims such as ‘beam away the world’ and getting rid of desires-claims or goals no one is claiming, at least not here in these forums.

No one is claiming this, you are right. By the way I never said "beam away the world" this sentence sound a little bit new agey if you ask me. With "beam yourself away" I meant that you should get rid of being, being is associated with the material, the material is senseless, so you need to forget your human experience and dissolve your ego(* not fully because it is impossible in the material world*).

[Freefrommainstream]

What is the sense of life then?
Beaming yourself away from the physical world, not in the sense of suicide but in the sense of meditating and getting rid of desires. If our brain works to much then we can not know what reality is. In our life we think and want, every of our senses works. But if we completely go on standby ( f.e in a meditative state) you will feel what reality is, reality is nothing. In my opinion the afterlife is a lucid dreamstate which is formed by our desires and wishes, the ultimate goal is to destroy them and having no self anymore.

How do we apply that to the physical world?
We should meditate and beam our experience and conciousness completely away. Because we are born in a physical world we can not completely dissolve but we can prepare ourselves for the lucid dreamstate that follows our "death". The physical world is just a trap which gives you no freedom, because if you are free you are not trapped in a cycle
Why do I call it a cycle?
If we do something then another action follows and then another action follows and so on. Doing is a cycle which will never end, if you try to do "nothing" you will be bored because doing nothing is not possible in the physical world. Do you call this freedom? This cycle goes into the infinite and it will never end. In my little book called " On infinity and the life" there is a sentence which I want to cite " The endless cycle of life is an infinite way , we will lie to ourselves and find a reason to go him"
: *My book*
I will post my little book separately because it is entirely in german I will translate it, this will take some time.
*Disclaimer*
This text does not justify suicide it just shows that we should dissolve our ego to be nothing in our "afterlife"

21st century materialism, fundamentalism, and mysticism, all embrace an anti-life escapist approach. They are manifestations of the same reduction of higher worlds into intellectual concepts. In modern mystical practice, the person forgets they were the ones who willed themselves into the blissful state and dissociated from their own active agency. No matter what, there is always still the desire to enter into the mystical state and the desire to remain there. In this state, all experience is still within the framework of current intellectual thinking. The experience can only be interpreted in terms of the concepts already possessed by the intellect (or, more accurately, possessing the intellect). This is what leads to the duality between "pure desire-free awareness" and the world of reasoned experience through the senses. From there, it is quite evident why people feel the only solution to the 'tyranny of the senses' is to escape the world altogether, by 'rapture' or mystical experience or 'transhuman' technology and/or passively waiting for death. If it was realized the desiring-thinking is still present in the mystical state, only dissociated from our agency, then it would also be realized that there is no guarantee, or even likelihood, that the overarching context of desires, feelings, thoughts informing all experience will simply disappear after death. The only 'escape' is to lapse into complete unconsciousness while the World Evolution continues.

The idea of ending the reincarnation cycle is by working off on our own Karma, which is intimately connected with the Karma of all other humans. This is also reflected in the Christian concept of accepting responsibility for the 'sins of the world', bearing our Cross. We can only work off our Karma in full consciousness, by voluntarily righting the errors of our past. What we do unconsciously, instinctively, out of blind desiring and feeling, especially in mystical state, does not redeem our negative Karma. This is precisely the purpose of the physical-perceptual plane. We cannot work off our Karma by escaping this plane - we must confront it through our thinking and and thereby redeem it. So engaging in physical reality is the only way by which each individual can end their own reincarnation cycle. Abstract, mechanical intellectual thinking is not to be equated with Thinking as such. There is no reason why thoughtfully engaging in reality must be something oppressive or at odds with inner meditative tranquility. When we contemplate and appreciate flowing, symphonic music, for ex., we are intuitively engaging in higher modes of Thinking. This music unfolds according to a higher order logical structure. It is by becoming more conscious of that structure that we can redeem what only appears to be opposed - the sense-world and higher worlds of meaning - not by detaching or dissociating further or escaping, but by becoming intimately familiar with how the higher worlds of meaning precipitate into our world of sense-perception.

There are higher and lower principles, light and dark, to everything. There is lower ego and higher Ego-Self, intellectual thinking and Imagination. The oppressive cycle comes from our lack of knowledge of these dynamics. That is the same thing as our lack of knowledge of higher beings which weave together the perceptual world, i.e. the primeval Wisdom responsible for the dynamics. The lower ego, the intellectual soul, was necessary for human freedom - for humans to freely choose to follow higher principles out of their innermost desire. Freedom does not come from abandoning desire, but transfiguring it. This is how fate becomes freedom, water turns into wine, fission becomes fusion, etc. (the metaphors are infinite). It is how the Cosmos of Wisdom becomes the Cosmos of Love. Love can only develop in full clarity of consciousness, not a dream-like state of humanity which was only appropriate many thousands of years ago. We do not need to return to the womb of instinctive consciousness, but be born again into higher (more conscious) existence. There is really no escaping even if we wanted to. We can either lapse into mechanistic unconsciousness as the Cosmic evolution continues without us, or we can actively participate in its manifestations of existential meaning.

...humanity needs to be given something today that truly changes the present state of soul to the same extent as the dreamer's state of soul changes to being fully awake and alive for the day, when he wakes in the morning.

People hear of deeply significant things that must inevitably lead to ruin, to decline and fall, and they do not even feel indignation. Things are going on in the world, intentions are alive in German lands that should horrify people — yet they do not. Anyone incapable of being horrified at these things also lacks the power to develop a sense of truth.

It has to be pointed out that healthy indignation over things that are not healthy should be the source and origin of enthusiasm, of the new truths that are needed. It is actually less important to convey truths to people than it is to bring fiery energy into their lethargic nervous systems. Fiery energy is needed today, not mystical sleep.

- Steiner, Polarities in Evolution (1920)

I describe the topic of mystical desire in my book. Aslong we are in the physical world we will never be able to escape from the physical trap, we need desires and we need our ego in this world. But think about this quote from my book " we are born and have no choice other than thinking this world is our reality, after we die we will still think that, we know nothing other than this world, we are bound to it, this is why we reincarnate. Escaping this reality will lead us into this reality another time. We can not imagine something other than this, because every imagination is associated with this world. The only solution to this is to never imagine, to never be and never think after you died. Forget and never remind yourself of forgetting. Being is the start of every endless cycle."
"On infinity and life"

[AshvinP]

I describe the topic of mystical desire in my book. Aslong we are in the physical world we will never be able to escape from the physical trap, we need desires and we need our ego in this world. But think about this quote from my book " we are born and have no choice other than thinking this world is our reality, after we die we will still think that, we know nothing other than this world, we are bound to it, this is why we reincarnate. Escaping this reality will lead us into this reality another time. We can not imagine something other than this, because every imagination is associated with this world. The only solution to this is to never imagine, to never be and never think after you died. Forget and never remind yourself of forgetting. Being is the start of every endless cycle."
"On infinity and life"

I get the sense you are simply stating what you 'feel' to be true about this world and its relation to the 'afterlife' and 'reincarnation'. And I can't blame you for having that feeling. I think you are being more forthright about what a lot of people are also feeling now re: this 'oppressive' physical reality, especially within analytic/mystical idealist communities. You probably have felt a sense of kinship with Kastrup lately, because he has expressed very similar nihilistic sentiments.

However, this infernal loop of physical thinking is a reflection of your own state of being right now. It is not a bug of Reality itself. This makes it much easier in the short term - it means we don't have to do anything but "never imagine, never be, never think, forget and remind yourself of forgetting". What could be more simple than this slogan to chant? It's simple to chant but impossible to realize. You are on this forum, after all, desiring, feeling, thinking and imagining. You wrote a book born from your desires and feelings, filled with thoughts. You are responding to my comment out of those same desires, feelings, and thoughts. So everything you are currently doing and feeling is out of phase, disharmonious with your own intellectual thoughts about 'life' and this is the source of the existential suffering which repeats itself in loops. There is nothing keeping us within this loop, chalked around ourselves by abstract intellectual concepts, except our own erroneous assumption that we cannot step out of it.

I may add more to this later. For now, consider this simple Wisdom:

We, however, are not prisoners. No traps or snares have been set around us, and there is nothing that should frighten or upset us. We have been put into life as into the element we most accord with, and we have, moreover, through thousands of years of adaptation, come to resemble this life so greatly that when we hold still, through a fortunate mimicry we can hardly be differentiated from everything around us. We have no reason to harbor any mistrust against our world, for it is not against us. If it has terrors, they are our terrors; if it has abysses, these abysses belong to us; if there are dangers, we must try to love them.

And if only we arrange our life in accordance with the principle which tells us that we must always trust in the difficult, then what now appears to us as the most alien will become our most intimate and trusted experience. How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love.

[Cleric K]

I describe the topic of mystical desire in my book. Aslong we are in the physical world we will never be able to escape from the physical trap, we need desires and we need our ego in this world. But think about this quote from my book " we are born and have no choice other than thinking this world is our reality, after we die we will still think that, we know nothing other than this world, we are bound to it, this is why we reincarnate. Escaping this reality will lead us into this reality another time. We can not imagine something other than this, because every imagination is associated with this world. The only solution to this is to never imagine, to never be and never think after you died. Forget and never remind yourself of forgetting. Being is the start of every endless cycle."
"On infinity and life"

Hi FFMS.

What would be one's motivation to do what you suggest? I mean that in the following sense:

You die and you forget. All links with this world are severed. There's no more any self, there's no thought, no memory. From the perspective of the Earthly self the situation is as the materialists imagines it - all existence (for the ego) ceases. And it ceases indeed, because whatever the liberated state after death is, there's no longer any consciousness of how that state has been reached. There's no knowledge that a conscious perspective was formerly going through reincarnation cycles and in the last cycle it made up its mind to forget everything after death. For the liberated state it doesn't make any difference if it has always existed in that (liberated) state or it has spent gazillion incarnations of suffering. In order to make any difference, the liberated state must retain some form of consciousness of the past states including of the fact that these former states have been experienced through the perspective of a very particular self. But this in itself would mean that the liberated state still has some form of identity. Otherwise it wouldn't be able to relate to some particular incarnational identity, from which it feels it has been liberated. There must be something in the liberated state which knows that it broke free from this and not that incarnational cycle. But from the way you describe it, it seems you suggest that in the liberated state there's no link whatsoever to any past incarnational progression.

The situation is similarly indeterminate from the perspective of the incarnational identity. The striving for liberation is peculiar because from the ego's perspective it is never attained. It's like approaching the event horizon of a black hole - one approaches it but there can never be the experience of crossing it (because of what was explained above - if we cross it, then the liberated state no longer has any relation to the states from which it had emerged).

So why would my Earthly self want to be 'liberated' then? The only reason would be to ensure that there's no such future conscious experience which could ever remember it has lived my current life. The motivation for this is not too clear. I can simply live purely materialistic life without trying to remember previous lives (in our age people don't remember them anyway). So if I live as a materialist, this is my first life as far as I remember. If in my next life I live as materialist again, it would still feel as my first, even without trying to ensure that I'm never reincarnated again.

In this sense, what is your personal motivation for breaking the cycle?

[Freefrommainstream]

I describe the topic of mystical desire in my book. Aslong we are in the physical world we will never be able to escape from the physical trap, we need desires and we need our ego in this world. But think about this quote from my book " we are born and have no choice other than thinking this world is our reality, after we die we will still think that, we know nothing other than this world, we are bound to it, this is why we reincarnate. Escaping this reality will lead us into this reality another time. We can not imagine something other than this, because every imagination is associated with this world. The only solution to this is to never imagine, to never be and never think after you died. Forget and never remind yourself of forgetting. Being is the start of every endless cycle."
"On infinity and life"

I get the sense you are simply stating what you 'feel' to be true about this world and its relation to the 'afterlife' and 'reincarnation'. And I can't blame you for having that feeling. I think you are being more forthright about what a lot of people are also feeling now re: this 'oppressive' physical reality, especially within analytic/mystical idealist communities. You probably have felt a sense of kinship with Kastrup lately, because he has expressed very similar nihilistic sentiments.

However, this infernal loop of physical thinking is a reflection of your own state of being right now. It is not a bug of Reality itself. This makes it much easier in the short term - it means we don't have to do anything but "never imagine, never be, never think, forget and remind yourself of forgetting". What could be more simple than this slogan to chant? It's simple to chant but impossible to realize. You are on this forum, after all, desiring, feeling, thinking and imagining. You wrote a book born from your desires and feelings, filled with thoughts. You are responding to my comment out of those same desires, feelings, and thoughts. So everything you are currently doing and feeling is out of phase, disharmonious with your own intellectual thoughts about 'life' and this is the source of the existential suffering which repeats itself in loops. There is nothing keeping us within this loop, chalked around ourselves by abstract intellectual concepts, except our own erroneous assumption that we cannot step out of it.

I may add more to this later. For now, consider this simple Wisdom:

We, however, are not prisoners. No traps or snares have been set around us, and there is nothing that should frighten or upset us. We have been put into life as into the element we most accord with, and we have, moreover, through thousands of years of adaptation, come to resemble this life so greatly that when we hold still, through a fortunate mimicry we can hardly be differentiated from everything around us. We have no reason to harbor any mistrust against our world, for it is not against us. If it has terrors, they are our terrors; if it has abysses, these abysses belong to us; if there are dangers, we must try to love them.

And if only we arrange our life in accordance with the principle which tells us that we must always trust in the difficult, then what now appears to us as the most alien will become our most intimate and trusted experience. How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love.

Maybe you are right, I have a diagnosed hard depression but I think my depression gives me philosophical insights. My depression in combination with the philosophical daimon makes me crazy but sometimes it shows me something, this is the insight I gained from it. Lets come back to my "slogan", it is not impossible to realise it. This thought experiment will help you but it is hard to describe it in english: Think about something, it does not matter what you think about. Now think about the thoughts that never came up in your mind. No cycle, no pain, no suffering. Sounds good...
This is my method to think about nothingness, of course this is the oversimplified version of my thought experiment but I like to have "impossible" thoughts, they challenge me. I hope this thought experiment showed you that you can think about nothingness, if you want the complex version I can send it to you.

Lets come to your simple wisdom.
Accepting is another part of the illusion of "reality". Material organisms are forced to accept and to give sense "Besinnung des Unbesinnbaren", we could find sense in a stone and love the stone, we could find love in everything and find something that gives us hope but in the end we just made our reality up. Everything is simply a thoughtform, if we think that a god that loves us exists he will exist, if we think a stone loves us then we will have a relationship with the stone, there is a similar concept in Buddhism called Tulpa. I experienced the same, when I had extreme down phases in my life I just created a character that talks to me and this character helped me but the idea that he is only an illusion destroyed him. Our core existence is pure nothingness because there is no deeper meaning we only create a deeper meaning to find a reason.

[AshvinP]

Maybe you are right, I have a diagnosed hard depression but I think my depression gives me philosophical insights. My depression in combination with the philosophical daimon makes me crazy but sometimes it shows me something, this is the insight I gained from it. Lets come back to my "slogan", it is not impossible to realise it. This thought experiment will help you but it is hard to describe it in english: Think about something, it does not matter what you think about. Now think about the thoughts that never came up in your mind. No cycle, no pain, no suffering. Sounds good...
This is my method to think about nothingness, of course this is the oversimplified version of my thought experiment but I like to have "impossible" thoughts, they challenge me. I hope this thought experiment showed you that you can think about nothingness, if you want the complex version I can send it to you.

Lets come to your simple wisdom.
Accepting is another part of the illusion of "reality". Material organisms are forced to accept and to give sense "Besinnung des Unbesinnbaren", we could find sense in a stone and love the stone, we could find love in everything and find something that gives us hope but in the end we just made our reality up. Everything is simply a thoughtform, if we think that a god that loves us exists he will exist, if we think a stone loves us then we will have a relationship with the stone, there is a similar concept in Buddhism called Tulpa. I experienced the same, when I had extreme down phases in my life I just created a character that talks to me and this character helped me but the idea that he is only an illusion destroyed him. Our core existence is pure nothingness because there is no deeper meaning we only create a deeper meaning to find a reason.

There are many ways we could continue this discussion. We could look at the rise of nominalism in the middle ages, rationalism at the dawn of the modern age, Kantian dualism, etc. Whenever someone says, "it's just a thought, just an idea, just an imagination", it is clear the modern prejudices are at work. These downgrade thinking-thoughts, and inner experience in general, to insubstantial things, mere floating concepts which are added on top of the physical world of perceptions. It is felt the latter has always pre-existed the former. This is yet another case of us confusing our own insubstantial intellectual thinking with the full potential of Thinking as such, and then using that conflation to deny the otherwise intuitive relation between our Thinking and our Being.

Humanity's inner thought-life was not always the way it is today. There was a time when ideas and meaning were more concretely perceived, standing 'behind' or within the natural forms and processes of the world. Man felt his identity much more bound up with Nature itself. His entire rhythmic life experience flowed along with the natural environment and the collective tribes he belonged to, all overseen by gods and spirits. The 'outer' and 'inner' worlds were interwoven to the extent that there was practically no "inner" life to speak of. Even as the embryo of this inner life grew, it was still sensed for some time that the outer perceptions of Cosmos and Nature were woven through invisible, yet real higher forces. These forces are what we now call "ideas", "thinking", etc. So it is only a short span of time (500 years or so) that we have been with experience entirely devoid of this understanding, i.e. a mindless and mechanical Cosmos completely unrelated to our inner activity.

I have a sense, though, that none of the above history and philosophy interests you much. If it does, then we can dig deeper into it. Perhaps you value concrete first-person experience more, as I have also come to. Can we agree that you were, in fact, desiring and thinking when you chose to join this forum, share your ideas, and respond to my post as you did above? That every thought experiment of the sort you described above also requires a desire to do the experiment and thinking to perform it? This comes to the question of motivation that Cleric asked above, as well. If the goal is to do away entirely with desiring and thinking, then what possible value is gained for you from participating on this forum? Especially if, whenever you manage to experience nothingness i.e. end the thinking cycle, you would have no memory of the cycles, and therefore would not actually know you were liberated from anything. As long as you are here on this forum, according to your view, you are not one iota more liberated than anyone else.

I think we really need to ask if what we are doing in life, what we are presupposing in all of our actions, like writing books and posting on this forum, can be reconciled with our intellectual theories about getting rid of thinking and seeking "nothingness" as path to liberation. We are really dealing with a polar relation here - being and nothingness. Within this relation lies all of existence. So it's not difficult to make an intellectual argument which prioritizes one over the other or finds reasons from religion, philosophy, science, etc. why true 'freedom' lies in doing away with the other. The pragmatic question, does such an argument align with our goal-directed intuitions? Does it divide us against ourselves, doing one thing and feeling/thinking another? Does it put us in a situation where we are using meaning to claim there is no meaning? In addition to Cleric's question, these are the ones I am curious about your answers to.

[lorenzop]

You seemingly are tryin go to clean up claims such as ‘beam away the world’ and getting rid of desires-claims or goals no one is claiming, at least not here in these forums.

No one is claiming this, you are right. By the way I never said "beam away the world" this sentence sound a little bit new agey if you ask me. With "beam yourself away" I meant that you should get rid of being, being is associated with the material, the material is senseless, so you need to forget your human experience and dissolve your ego(* not fully because it is impossible in the material world*).

Again, my question is Who is proposing such nonsense? It seems a bit 'strawmanny'.