All governments have some evil with the good but some governments have more evil than good.
It's a shame for the Russian people who could be major players in science and technology but are ruled by corrupt oligarchs who want to enrich themselves and to resurrect the old Russian Empire.
Re: Evil abstraction: the psychology of totalitarianism
Meanwhile, this young vlogger from Russia with love—approaching almost a million views for this video alone, and which speaks to this heart far more deeply than yet another opinion piece from BK—faces having her channel shut down, and possibly being arrested, by the Russian powers-that-be dare she speak of 'war' as opposed to the 'special military operation' (Orwell's 'newspeak' comes to mind); and if not shut down by the government, then Google in its wisdom may shut down her channel because, well, apparently just being Russian can get one cancelled now ... as if that can be considered good prevailing over evil. Seems that it's all rooted in the same deeply flawed mindset that continues to serve and sustain the prevailing paradigm, despite all the offerings of redemption spoken about here to no avail.
Re: Evil abstraction: the psychology of totalitarianism
Meanwhile, this young vlogger from Russia with love—approaching almost a million views for this video alone, and which speaks to this heart far more deeply than yet another opinion piece from BK—faces having her channel shut down, and possibly being arrested, by the Russian powers-that-be dare she speak of 'war' as opposed to the 'special military operation' (Orwell's 'newspeak' comes to mind); and if not shut down by the government, then Google in its wisdom may shut down her channel because, well, apparently just being Russian can get one cancelled now ... as if that can be considered good prevailing over evil. Seems that it's all rooted in the same deeply flawed mindset that continues to serve and sustain the prevailing paradigm, despite all the offerings of redemption spoken about here to no avail.
Keep in mind that Bernardo's piece was somewhat a recanting of his own previous pro Putin's views.
The flawed mindset and prevailing paradigm at question here has much to do with power, control, and how humanity organizes itself. People of any metaphysical belief can be evil. The Russian Orthodox church supports the invasion.
Re: Evil abstraction: the psychology of totalitarianism
Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2022 1:20 pm
by Soul_of_Shu
Jim Cross wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 12:27 pm
Keep in mind that Bernardo's piece was somewhat a recanting of his own previous pro Putin's views.
The flawed mindset and prevailing paradigm at question here has much to do with power, control, and how humanity organizes itself. People of any metaphysical belief can be evil. The Russian Orthodox church supports the invasion.
For the record, here's my reply to BK's blog post, specifically this remark: "... and that sometimes only force stops it."
"And so what is the 'force' that you are suggesting, beyond some eloquent blog post? Is it the force of sanctions, which ordinary Russians will surely feel the brunt of, who, as you say, Putin could not care less about. Should it be the force of those ordinary Russians rising up in resistance and revolt, willing to be arrested and imprisoned, even shot, in the hope of ending the regime? Should it be the force of sending NATO-aligned troops, our sons and daughters, to fight in Ukraine, to force an end to it—if need be, ending in a nuclear missile showdown? What other force is there that truly offers some lasting redemption from this evil?"
I'm guessing he's suggesting none of the above, and looking forward to a truly novel and encouraging answer.
Re: Evil abstraction: the psychology of totalitarianism
Jim Cross wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 12:27 pm
Keep in mind that Bernardo's piece was somewhat a recanting of his own previous pro Putin's views.
The flawed mindset and prevailing paradigm at question here has much to do with power, control, and how humanity organizes itself. People of any metaphysical belief can be evil. The Russian Orthodox church supports the invasion.
For the record, here's my reply to BK's blog post, specifically this remark: "... and that sometimes only force stops it."
"And so what is the 'force' that you are suggesting, beyond some eloquent blog post? Is it the force of sanctions, which ordinary Russians will surely feel the brunt of, who, as you say, Putin could not care less about. Should it be the force of those ordinary Russians rising up in resistance and revolt, willing to be arrested and imprisoned, even shot, in the hope of ending the regime? Should it be the force of sending NATO-aligned troops, our sons and daughters, to fight in Ukraine, to force an end to it—if need be, ending in a nuclear missile showdown? What other force is there that truly offers some lasting redemption from this evil?"
I'm guessing he's suggesting none of the above, and looking forward to a truly novel and encouraging answer.
It's not the force of a vlogger. My point is that Bernardo's piece seemed as much about reexamining some of his own views as any concrete answer.
Unfortunately, in the real world, there aren't easy answers. The most optimistic scenario from my view would be that the state of art weapons supplied by the West along with the bravery of the Ukrainian people will eventually repel the invasion, perhaps leading to a collapse of the current paradigm in Russia and movement to something better for all concerned.
Re: Evil abstraction: the psychology of totalitarianism
Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2022 10:03 pm
by ScottRoberts
Dana and Jim: You (and I would hope Bernardo) are aware, surely, that there is an opposing view to the Ukraine war, in which the US and its puppet regime in Kiev are the bad guys and the Russians are the good guys (trying to end the war the US started in 2014, with 10,000+ killed)? In attempting to peer through the fog of war, in which, as is usually accepted, truth is known to be the first casualty, I tend to side with that opposing view. It is not that I want to debate it here -- it is all blatantly political -- but will if you want (actually, I would probably just point to blogs and essays because I'm lazy.), I just hope you don't think the Western (US and European) narrative that you and Bernardo seem to be following is established truth.
Re: Evil abstraction: the psychology of totalitarianism
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2022 4:25 am
by Lou Gold
ScottRoberts wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 10:03 pm
Dana and Jim: You (and I would hope Bernardo) are aware, surely, that there is an opposing view to the Ukraine war, in which the US and its puppet regime in Kiev are the bad guys and the Russians are the good guys (trying to end the war the US started in 2014, with 10,000+ killed)? In attempting to peer through the fog of war, in which, as is usually accepted, truth is known to be the first casualty, I tend to side with that opposing view. It is not that I want to debate it here -- it is all blatantly political -- but will if you want (actually, I would probably just point to blogs and essays because I'm lazy.), I just hope you don't think the Western (US and European) narrative that you and Bernardo seem to be following is established truth.
Right on, Scott. For a much more nuanced analysis, check out this dialogue with Noam Chomsky. I'm not arguing here that NC has some kind of lock on the Truth. From a heartfelt perspective, I just hope and pray that Zelensky can navigate the Great Power games and prevent the Ukraine from becoming the new Afghanistan.
Re: Evil abstraction: the psychology of totalitarianism
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2022 8:08 am
by Soul_of_Shu
ScottRoberts wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 10:03 pm
Dana and Jim: You (and I would hope Bernardo) are aware, surely, that there is an opposing view to the Ukraine war, in which the US and its puppet regime in Kiev are the bad guys and the Russians are the good guys (trying to end the war the US started in 2014, with 10,000+ killed)? In attempting to peer through the fog of war, in which, as is usually accepted, truth is known to be the first casualty, I tend to side with that opposing view. It is not that I want to debate it here -- it is all blatantly political -- but will if you want (actually, I would probably just point to blogs and essays because I'm lazy.), I just hope you don't think the Western (US and European) narrative that you and Bernardo seem to be following is established truth.
Actually, I'm more and more discouraged by BK's latest forays. As I put it to BK in his blog comments section, I'm more genuinely interested in what might be the way to some lasting redemption from 'evil'—even as I'm not sure I agree with how he defines evil in his piece, which I'd be more interested in seeing discussed here via dialogos. However, so far, BK has offered no answer. Thus I get the impression from him that it is irredeemable. In other words, are we haplessly and helplessly fated to await the next inevitable all-too-familiar confrontation with the same tragic result?
However, in lieu of any philosophically focused take on it, regarding any debate about whose politics are to blame, about which I've no opinion, is such a debate really likely to be resolved here, any more so than in some strictly political forum or blog? As you say, you can just as easily point anyone who may be interested toward those alternative sources/narratives, rather than just duplicate it here, as well as discuss it elsewhere. In any case, good luck having that discussion with BK, be it on his blog, or any other social media platform that he is currently invested in. He isn't really doing such discussion any more, unless it's happening in exclusive private settings.
Re: Evil abstraction: the psychology of totalitarianism
ScottRoberts wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 10:03 pm
Dana and Jim: You (and I would hope Bernardo) are aware, surely, that there is an opposing view to the Ukraine war, in which the US and its puppet regime in Kiev are the bad guys and the Russians are the good guys (trying to end the war the US started in 2014, with 10,000+ killed)? In attempting to peer through the fog of war, in which, as is usually accepted, truth is known to be the first casualty, I tend to side with that opposing view. It is not that I want to debate it here -- it is all blatantly political -- but will if you want (actually, I would probably just point to blogs and essays because I'm lazy.), I just hope you don't think the Western (US and European) narrative that you and Bernardo seem to be following is established truth.
Actually, I'm more and more discouraged by BK's latest forays. As I put it to BK in his blog comments section, I'm more genuinely interested in what might be the way to some lasting redemption from 'evil'—even as I'm not sure I agree with how he defines evil in his piece, which I'd be more interested in seeing discussed here via dialogos. However, so far, BK has offered no answer. Thus I get the impression from him that it is irredeemable. In other words, are we haplessly and helplessly fated to await the next inevitable all-too-familiar confrontation with the same tragic result?
