New topic split from 'concise criticism of analytic idealism' thread.

Any topics primarily focused on metaphysics can be discussed here, in a generally casual way, where conversations may take unexpected turns.
User avatar
AshvinP
Posts: 5483
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:00 am
Location: USA

Re: New topic split from 'concise criticism of analytic idealism' thread.

Post by AshvinP »

Lou Gold wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 7:44 am Yes, attachment (cliging) to reward ("uplifting feeling" or whatever) becomes a trap, a snare. Each step yields a new horizon. It's a process. I'm reminded of a Tibetan saying I read long ago about the spiritual path" "If begun, better to finish" or, don't stop on any step. But this, for me at least, is not a one size fits every person in every moment precept. As Jesus says, "The sign of the Father in you is movement and repose." We do need to rest. Each person has his/her karma and time to release.

What if the current understanding of "movement and repose", which generally only relates to our own personal life, isn't the full extent of its meaning? This is what is meant by "don't stop on any step" on the thinking spiritual path. If there is still transpersonal meaning to be mined, it is about making the sacrifice to delve in and mine it, regardless of how uncomfortable or unfamiliar it may be - shedding the additional layers of skin and penetrating further into the core Being.

Cleric offered you the Magic Eye metaphor here for how we need new thinking skills and less presumptions about the person or the path pointing to them, which I don't think you directly responded to. Instead, you responded as follows:

Lou wrote:I have a personal path that allows me to consciously explore and learn from intuitive, imaginative and inspirative awareness that I've practiced for 25 years with continued satisfaction that consistently leads me deeper into the heart of the matter.

I'm really not trying to attack you here, but we all need more self-honesty when it comes to these matters. What is written above is not humble or gracious in its understanding - it could not possibly be the final step. It shows you are simply substituting your own conception of higher cognition and then claiming you have reached your own conception to your own satisfaction. Similarly, we come upon the Thomas Gospel verse of 'movement and repose' and figure, "great, that's what I am already doing in my life!". This is what I imagine Federica is also pointing to with the shedding skin layers - the temptation is always to confuse our current layer of skin for the deepest layers, or more accurately the shed skin itself (our reflective concepts of spiritual truths).

The 'movement and repose' dynamic has been illustrated here in terms of the Perceiving-Thinking hysteresis. It is an actual scientific, or perhaps supra-scientific, principle of our inner activity. It also associates with the Nature-Culture polarity we (or I) have been discussing, and all other polarities. We experience it every day with the sleep-wake cycle and throughout the day as well. Now we could make these various associations and stop there. We could say, I am going to live my life in the rhythm of movement and repose. That's all well and good. But let's be perfectly clear to ourselves that we are stopping and resting comfortably on a spiritual step in this situation. There are most certainly more steps which can be taken, and which can be taken mostly regardless of where we are in life.

Have we considered how this rhythm relates to our incarnation, death, and reincarnation cycle? How does it relate to that of our cultural ages, or the Earth's incarnations and reincarnations, the manvantara and pralaya? Have we engaged the focused imaginative exercises which actually spiral together the poles of this rhythm from within us? Have we wondered what it means that this rhythm should be given as a revelation through the Divine Word itself and then be discovered anew in our own inner life of activity in the 20th century - that the sign of the Father is actually in us? There is an entire gradient of meaning between the 'now' and the eternal in that simple verse and it is obvious we haven't even begun to uncover its deeper layers. Or at least it will be obvious when we reach the inversion horizon.

Then instead of saying, "I have 25 years with higher cognitive awareness", we may say, "I have zero years exploring my inner activity consciously and precisely but I'm ready to start on day one and year one". Or if we want to remain on our own path, wherever we are, let's be clear we aren't pursuing higher cognitive awareness of the deeper layers, even though it's a viable option and one that has been outlined in great detail here. Let's not assume we are already on that path with our mere conceptions of "higher cognition", "imagination", etc. One cannot say they are simply allowing their Karma to unfold if they are in error about these things, about the very nature of the options they are failing to explore.
"Most people would sooner regard themselves as a piece of lava in the moon than as an 'I'"
User avatar
Lou Gold
Posts: 2025
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:18 pm

Re: New topic split from 'concise criticism of analytic idealism' thread.

Post by Lou Gold »

AshvinP wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 12:27 pm
Lou Gold wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 7:44 am Yes, attachment (cliging) to reward ("uplifting feeling" or whatever) becomes a trap, a snare. Each step yields a new horizon. It's a process. I'm reminded of a Tibetan saying I read long ago about the spiritual path" "If begun, better to finish" or, don't stop on any step. But this, for me at least, is not a one size fits every person in every moment precept. As Jesus says, "The sign of the Father in you is movement and repose." We do need to rest. Each person has his/her karma and time to release.

What if the current understanding of "movement and repose", which generally only relates to our own personal life, isn't the full extent of its meaning? This is what is meant by "don't stop on any step" on the thinking spiritual path. If there is still transpersonal meaning to be mined, it is about making the sacrifice to delve in and mine it, regardless of how uncomfortable or unfamiliar it may be - shedding the additional layers of skin and penetrating further into the core Being.

Cleric offered you the Magic Eye metaphor here for how we need new thinking skills and less presumptions about the person or the path pointing to them, which I don't think you directly responded to. Instead, you responded as follows:

Lou wrote:I have a personal path that allows me to consciously explore and learn from intuitive, imaginative and inspirative awareness that I've practiced for 25 years with continued satisfaction that consistently leads me deeper into the heart of the matter.

I'm really not trying to attack you here, but we all need more self-honesty when it comes to these matters. What is written above is not humble or gracious in its understanding - it could not possibly be the final step. It shows you are simply substituting your own conception of higher cognition and then claiming you have reached your own conception to your own satisfaction. Similarly, we come upon the Thomas Gospel verse of 'movement and repose' and figure, "great, that's what I am already doing in my life!". This is what I imagine Federica is also pointing to with the shedding skin layers - the temptation is always to confuse our current layer of skin for the deepest layers, or more accurately the shed skin itself (our reflective concepts of spiritual truths).

The 'movement and repose' dynamic has been illustrated here in terms of the Perceiving-Thinking hysteresis. It is an actual scientific, or perhaps supra-scientific, principle of our inner activity. It also associates with the Nature-Culture polarity we (or I) have been discussing, and all other polarities. We experience it every day with the sleep-wake cycle and throughout the day as well. Now we could make these various associations and stop there. We could say, I am going to live my life in the rhythm of movement and repose. That's all well and good. But let's be perfectly clear to ourselves that we are stopping and resting comfortably on a spiritual step in this situation. There are most certainly more steps which can be taken, and which can be taken mostly regardless of where we are in life.

Have we considered how this rhythm relates to our incarnation, death, and reincarnation cycle? How does it relate to that of our cultural ages, or the Earth's incarnations and reincarnations, the manvantara and pralaya? Have we engaged the focused imaginative exercises which actually spiral together the poles of this rhythm from within us? Have we wondered what it means that this rhythm should be given as a revelation through the Divine Word itself and then be discovered anew in our own inner life of activity in the 20th century - that the sign of the Father is actually in us? There is an entire gradient of meaning between the 'now' and the eternal in that simple verse and it is obvious we haven't even begun to uncover its deeper layers. Or at least it will be obvious when we reach the inversion horizon.

Then instead of saying, "I have 25 years with higher cognitive awareness", we may say, "I have zero years exploring my inner activity consciously and precisely but I'm ready to start on day one and year one". Or if we want to remain on our own path, wherever we are, let's be clear we aren't pursuing higher cognitive awareness of the deeper layers, even though it's a viable option and one that has been outlined in great detail here. Let's not assume we are already on that path with our mere conceptions of "higher cognition", "imagination", etc. One cannot say they are simply allowing their Karma to unfold if they are in error about these things, about the very nature of the options they are failing to explore.
Ashvin,

I do not claim completeness or enlightenment or some great progress beyond or better than anyone else who is doing sincere spiritual work nor do I advocate my specific path for others. When I say that I'm satisfied it means that I'm grateful the expansion continues through sheddings and new horizons in a process I call having faith, a faith in oning corrections and realizations. I know that getting caught in an attachment is a snare and that applies even to saying "I'm satisfied with having a path." All I can say is that I'm grateful beyond words that Jesus, Our Mother and the Holy Cross entered my heart and I pray to be worthy of the Promise of Christ. It's a work, it's a pain, it's a process, it's a joy to be, along with everyone else in their own special way, a Child of God.
Be calm - Be clear - See the faults - See the suffering - Give your love
User avatar
Federica
Posts: 1745
Joined: Sat May 14, 2022 2:30 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: New topic split from 'concise criticism of analytic idealism' thread.

Post by Federica »

Lou Gold wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 7:44 am
Federica wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 3:35 pm
Lou Gold wrote: Sun Jul 17, 2022 8:09 pm OK. I accept that you can't imagine that I'm not ignoring a pole. Perhaps, we can just agree that it takes a lot of ongoing work to become worthy of the promise and we must approach that task with a great humility.

Lou,

I am reading your dialogue with Ashvin, coming to separate closures on different pages. And now you have affixed your characteristic 'perhaps-we-can-agree-that' final seal to it. Is it still possible to lift the seal and open the book again, but at a completely different chapter? Not trying to catch you into realizations about polarities here (even if I wanted, I wouldn't be able). I just would like to share with you the thoughts that this conversation evokes, and completely abandon the question whether you are or aren’t ignoring anything. Instead, can we make it about our previous topic of attachment to identity that needs to be shed?
Sure, Federica. I'll give it a try.
Federica wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 3:35 pm As you earlier said, when you cling to some self-identity, you often find yourself compelled to let go of it. For instance, sacrificing feelings of self righteousness, or superiority, is a continuous shedding process. And how does it feel to shed self righteousness? Good, right? And rightly so. Self righteousness is not compassionate, it doesn’t show love. So when we see it, we take action, we have the honesty and the respect for others that is required in order to shed it, we are doing what’s right. It feels good. I use ‘we’ not to soften the message, but because I include myself, and others in general, in this common type of drifts we often play to ourselves, that’s so easy to get caught in.
Actually, it does not often or generally feel good. Humility does not naturally come to me. It was not my early training in achievement culture. I can't really recall striving toward humility but I assure you I've been humbled, busted so to speak on a variety of occasions. No, it was not necessarily fun or uplifting, more like a wake-up call.
Federica wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 3:35 pm Now I want to submit another question to you. What if our thirst for humbleness, that we quench by shedding self righteousness, by sticking to the role of the humble and respectful learner, the thankful witness of the sacred diversity of this world and its inhabitants, is nothing but a second layer of skin that also has to be shed, in a 'continuous shedding process', as you described it?


Again, I can't say that I "thirst for humbleness." Yes, I like the root word of humble, the Greek humus, meaning close to the soil. I would like to be grounded, to be simply real in the now. But this (for me) is not a "role of the humble and respectful learner, the thankful witness of the sacred diversity of this world and its inhabitants" or other exalted descriptions of a so-called "striving". If I did see it this way, I would surely have to shed it. What I do find more and more now, as an old guy in the late stage of my present end zone, is more and more like a life review whereby each shedding opens to a larger more generous or compassionate process. I become more interested in understanding others than judging them.
Federica wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 3:35 pm What if we need to see through the uplifting feeling that we get from shedding self-righteousness and instead tackle the more advanced sheddings, the ones where we could, with effort, roughly anticipate what they are hiding, but not how it will make us feel once their hidden function is brought into aware consideration? The function of shedding self righteousness is to satisfy a thirst for humbleness. But what is the function insured by clinging to the humble learner and thankful witness' role that is maybe uncomfortable to uncover and shed, Lou? And what new perspective on ourselves could we gain from that sacrifice?
Yes, attachment (cliging) to reward ("uplifting feeling" or whatever) becomes a trap, a snare. Each step yields a new horizon. It's a process. I'm reminded of a Tibetan saying I read long ago about the spiritual path" "If begun, better to finish" or, don't stop on any step. But this, for me at least, is not a one size fits every person in every moment precept. As Jesus says, "The sign of the Father in you is movement and repose." We do need to rest. Each person has his/her karma and time to release.

Perhaps, I can add another perspective on sacrifice: it's not necessarily an achievement trip or striving. In my life-changing dream 40 years ago I was faced with a situation that evoked very strong negative judgements that I pushed aside in favor of a childlike curiosity that simply wanted to know more about what I was witnessing. That kid, that magical inner being, was not striving to be a better or uplifted person. He simply wanted to know more about something incredibly beautiful. The judgements were sacrificed in the moment of that choice. I'm eternally that they were.

I don't know if I've responded well to your questions but I enjoyed giving it a try. Thank you. In the spirit of lightning up perhaps you'll enjoy a cartoon I stumbled upon this afternoon.

Image

Lou,

Thank you for playing the game, and for the cartoon! In the spirit of keeping it lightened up, I’m staying with your cartoon. It's a story that I hope you’ll enjoy rewriting!


“If begun… better to finish…” said the guy out loud, as he was taking an evening walk in the city park. On his t-shirt, a colorful imprint in huge, block capitals stood out. It said OLD GUY on the front, LATE STAGE OF END ZONE on the back.

“Hey colorful You! - shouted a caterpillar, tipping forward from a magnolia leaf lying on the side of the path - You seem super busy, but I’m curious! You were mumbling ‘if begun better to finish’ but… what if we don’t even begin?”

“Well, then we are free to rest, little Caterpillar - said the guy with a gentle smile - it’s a personal choice.”

“Really? Do you mean that I can skip all the chrysalis acrobatics, rest on this silky leaf, and just enjoy the breeze, if I choose to?”

“Well… not really, little Caterpillar… We don’t want to stop on any steps! What you are about to do is incredibly beautiful, but whatever your decision, I am so glad our paths have crossed!”

“I get it! No stop on the steps, but before the steps! But... what about you? Where are you going to build your chrysalis?”

“Little Caterpillar… Please don't caterpillarize me, we are all different. Can you not read English? I am late stage old and I don’t intend to start big endeavors of any sorts, OK? I already did the heavy work many years ago, with the help of Karma, and it still holds. Back then, we shed some heavy prejudices to follow love and beauty, and we never looked back. Well… I do look back sometimes, like... often, but only with the eyes of eternal gratitude, I assure you. So no need for new beginnings, because if begun…”

“...better to finish?”

“Exactly! Plus, Karma doesn’t really work like that.”

“Oh… Indeed, I wanted to ask you about this guy, Karma, who helps you tackle work. I would love to rely on Karma too for all my heavy work with chrysalis engineering and all that. May I ask you how much you pay for Karma services?”


“Oh! No, no, little Caterpillar, you don’t understand. I work for Karma, not the other way round. Karma decides for me. And now Karma tells me to rest. You understand, don't you? 49 year ago he told me to quit academia, and 40 years ago he made me quit big prejudices. Then, 37 years ago… well you get the idea. We have been working all our life. So today he’s telling me - rest, old guy. Even this t-shirt is Karma-based by the way.”

“Is it? How lucky though… You actually have an assignment to rest!”

“Well, it is not really so, little Caterpillar. Sometimes Karma gives me a wake-up call, in case I overlooked some cleanup, and then I know I have to attend to it, it’s a process. And I can tell you, I hate shedding layers of dust and cleaning up! But I still do it, of course, it’s my job. And I can tell you more. I would love to love cleaning up and shedding, like all these humble people who are keen on that. They do so much work, and their feet are grounded in the now. But this is, as it were, not my Karma’s style, unfortunately. We have to accept that.”

“I understand… Maybe you could resign, get another assignement and work with what you love? By the way, do you have good work conditions?”

“No, no, no, little Caterpillar, this is a great job. I’m very lucky! My Karma is a very cool type, I am never required to do heavy upgrades. Note, I still keep myself current, all those super interesting things out there, I know they exist, but for what I personally need to do, this is more than enough. You know, I’m not trying to ascend anywhere, nor to guide anyone. I have peace of mind, I have gratitude, I have faith… it’s all included! So yes, conditions are good, I’m staying! I mean, he is staying with me, he decides. Best of luck with your beautiful endeavor, little Caterpillar!"

Little Caterpillar was about to thank the guy, when a biker passed by and squashed it on the ground.

“Our paths are all different - he reflected as he was resuming the walk - as our Karma are. We have to accept that. May our paths be all good, in all their own special ways.”

.
In this epoch we have to be fighters for the spirit: man must realise what his powers can give way to, unless they are kept constantly under control for the conquest of the spiritual world. In this fifth epoch, man is entitled to his freedom to the highest degree! He has to go through that.
User avatar
Lou Gold
Posts: 2025
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:18 pm

Re: New topic split from 'concise criticism of analytic idealism' thread.

Post by Lou Gold »

Federica wrote: Wed Jul 20, 2022 5:49 pm
Lou Gold wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 7:44 am
Federica wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 3:35 pm


Lou,

I am reading your dialogue with Ashvin, coming to separate closures on different pages. And now you have affixed your characteristic 'perhaps-we-can-agree-that' final seal to it. Is it still possible to lift the seal and open the book again, but at a completely different chapter? Not trying to catch you into realizations about polarities here (even if I wanted, I wouldn't be able). I just would like to share with you the thoughts that this conversation evokes, and completely abandon the question whether you are or aren’t ignoring anything. Instead, can we make it about our previous topic of attachment to identity that needs to be shed?
Sure, Federica. I'll give it a try.
Federica wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 3:35 pm As you earlier said, when you cling to some self-identity, you often find yourself compelled to let go of it. For instance, sacrificing feelings of self righteousness, or superiority, is a continuous shedding process. And how does it feel to shed self righteousness? Good, right? And rightly so. Self righteousness is not compassionate, it doesn’t show love. So when we see it, we take action, we have the honesty and the respect for others that is required in order to shed it, we are doing what’s right. It feels good. I use ‘we’ not to soften the message, but because I include myself, and others in general, in this common type of drifts we often play to ourselves, that’s so easy to get caught in.
Actually, it does not often or generally feel good. Humility does not naturally come to me. It was not my early training in achievement culture. I can't really recall striving toward humility but I assure you I've been humbled, busted so to speak on a variety of occasions. No, it was not necessarily fun or uplifting, more like a wake-up call.
Federica wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 3:35 pm Now I want to submit another question to you. What if our thirst for humbleness, that we quench by shedding self righteousness, by sticking to the role of the humble and respectful learner, the thankful witness of the sacred diversity of this world and its inhabitants, is nothing but a second layer of skin that also has to be shed, in a 'continuous shedding process', as you described it?


Again, I can't say that I "thirst for humbleness." Yes, I like the root word of humble, the Greek humus, meaning close to the soil. I would like to be grounded, to be simply real in the now. But this (for me) is not a "role of the humble and respectful learner, the thankful witness of the sacred diversity of this world and its inhabitants" or other exalted descriptions of a so-called "striving". If I did see it this way, I would surely have to shed it. What I do find more and more now, as an old guy in the late stage of my present end zone, is more and more like a life review whereby each shedding opens to a larger more generous or compassionate process. I become more interested in understanding others than judging them.
Federica wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 3:35 pm What if we need to see through the uplifting feeling that we get from shedding self-righteousness and instead tackle the more advanced sheddings, the ones where we could, with effort, roughly anticipate what they are hiding, but not how it will make us feel once their hidden function is brought into aware consideration? The function of shedding self righteousness is to satisfy a thirst for humbleness. But what is the function insured by clinging to the humble learner and thankful witness' role that is maybe uncomfortable to uncover and shed, Lou? And what new perspective on ourselves could we gain from that sacrifice?
Yes, attachment (cliging) to reward ("uplifting feeling" or whatever) becomes a trap, a snare. Each step yields a new horizon. It's a process. I'm reminded of a Tibetan saying I read long ago about the spiritual path" "If begun, better to finish" or, don't stop on any step. But this, for me at least, is not a one size fits every person in every moment precept. As Jesus says, "The sign of the Father in you is movement and repose." We do need to rest. Each person has his/her karma and time to release.

Perhaps, I can add another perspective on sacrifice: it's not necessarily an achievement trip or striving. In my life-changing dream 40 years ago I was faced with a situation that evoked very strong negative judgements that I pushed aside in favor of a childlike curiosity that simply wanted to know more about what I was witnessing. That kid, that magical inner being, was not striving to be a better or uplifted person. He simply wanted to know more about something incredibly beautiful. The judgements were sacrificed in the moment of that choice. I'm eternally that they were.

I don't know if I've responded well to your questions but I enjoyed giving it a try. Thank you. In the spirit of lightning up perhaps you'll enjoy a cartoon I stumbled upon this afternoon.

Image

Lou,

Thank you for playing the game, and for the cartoon! In the spirit of keeping it lightened up, I’m staying with your cartoon. It's a story that I hope you’ll enjoy rewriting!


“If begun… better to finish…” said the guy out loud, as he was taking an evening walk in the city park. On his t-shirt, a colorful imprint in huge, block capitals stood out. It said OLD GUY on the front, LATE STAGE OF END ZONE on the back.

“Hey colorful You! - shouted a caterpillar, tipping forward from a magnolia leaf lying on the side of the path - You seem super busy, but I’m curious! You were mumbling ‘if begun better to finish’ but… what if we don’t even begin?”

“Well, then we are free to rest, little Caterpillar - said the guy with a gentle smile - it’s a personal choice.”

“Really? Do you mean that I can skip all the chrysalis acrobatics, rest on this silky leaf, and just enjoy the breeze, if I choose to?”

“Well… not really, little Caterpillar… We don’t want to stop on any steps! What you are about to do is incredibly beautiful, but whatever your decision, I am so glad our paths have crossed!”

“I get it! No stop on the steps, but before the steps! But... what about you? Where are you going to build your chrysalis?”

“Little Caterpillar… Please don't caterpillarize me, we are all different. Can you not read English? I am late stage old and I don’t intend to start big endeavors of any sorts, OK? I already did the heavy work many years ago, with the help of Karma, and it still holds. Back then, we shed some heavy prejudices to follow love and beauty, and we never looked back. Well… I do look back sometimes, like... often, but only with the eyes of eternal gratitude, I assure you. So no need for new beginnings, because if begun…”

“...better to finish?”

“Exactly! Plus, Karma doesn’t really work like that.”

“Oh… Indeed, I wanted to ask you about this guy, Karma, who helps you tackle work. I would love to rely on Karma too for all my heavy work with chrysalis engineering and all that. May I ask you how much you pay for Karma services?”


“Oh! No, no, little Caterpillar, you don’t understand. I work for Karma, not the other way round. Karma decides for me. And now Karma tells me to rest. You understand, don't you? 49 year ago he told me to quit academia, and 40 years ago he made me quit big prejudices. Then, 37 years ago… well you get the idea. We have been working all our life. So today he’s telling me - rest, old guy. Even this t-shirt is Karma-based by the way.”

“Is it? How lucky though… You actually have an assignment to rest!”

“Well, it is not really so, little Caterpillar. Sometimes Karma gives me a wake-up call, in case I overlooked some cleanup, and then I know I have to attend to it, it’s a process. And I can tell you, I hate shedding layers of dust and cleaning up! But I still do it, of course, it’s my job. And I can tell you more. I would love to love cleaning up and shedding, like all these humble people who are keen on that. They do so much work, and their feet are grounded in the now. But this is, as it were, not my Karma’s style, unfortunately. We have to accept that.”

“I understand… Maybe you could resign, get another assignement and work with what you love? By the way, do you have good work conditions?”

“No, no, no, little Caterpillar, this is a great job. I’m very lucky! My Karma is a very cool type, I am never required to do heavy upgrades. Note, I still keep myself current, all those super interesting things out there, I know they exist, but for what I personally need to do, this is more than enough. You know, I’m not trying to ascend anywhere, nor to guide anyone. I have peace of mind, I have gratitude, I have faith… it’s all included! So yes, conditions are good, I’m staying! I mean, he is staying with me, he decides. Best of luck with your beautiful endeavor, little Caterpillar!"

Little Caterpillar was about to thank the guy, when a biker passed by and squashed it on the ground.

“Our paths are all different - he reflected as he was resuming the walk - as our Karma are. We have to accept that. May our paths be all good, in all their own special way.”


Good morning Federica.

Seems sometimes like no rest for the weary. ;) Thank you as always. :)

Interestingly, I believe the full Tibetan saying is, "Better not to begin but if begun better to finish."

In the spirit of play, I might respond pointing toward a magnificent magnolia blooming now in my yard along with the lyric of Leonard Cohen:

Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There's a crack, a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in


On a more serious note I can report that dying is the best school I've attended. I love the Lakota insight that a good day to die is a good day to live. My karma surely includes ongoing heavy upgrades. In this life review phase, I recall a poem I wrote about 6 years ago, which still feels good to me:

Perhaps

Perhaps because a lifetime is short 
and because I’ve entered my end zone
Each day seems more and more 
a good day to die, meaning to live well
 
I see the necessity, in this final phase,
to know death as a friend, as an ally toward happiness
Perhaps like a lover urgent with the desire
to birth new life into the world


Perhaps this is why I have such an urge 
to create, to be a maker while I can 
Does dying arrive this way, at first 
as an urgent lover? 


Perhaps the desire is for happiness, the real kind 
Not the kind that comes from shopping 
Like new life, real happiness comes from what is created
A giving more than a getting, offered with joy


Perhaps something better can be created
That possibility always captures my heart
Perhaps the best that happens is made together
Like a work party or a festa of children


Perhaps I and it are meant to be that way, filled by play
I’m not sure but certainty is not necessary 
The promise of perhaps 
is enough to hold my heart in a happy way


Image
Be calm - Be clear - See the faults - See the suffering - Give your love
User avatar
Lou Gold
Posts: 2025
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:18 pm

Re: New topic split from 'concise criticism of analytic idealism' thread.

Post by Lou Gold »

Federica wrote: Wed Jul 20, 2022 5:49 pm
Lou,

Thank you for playing the game, and for the cartoon! In the spirit of keeping it lightened up, I’m staying with your cartoon. It's a story that I hope you’ll enjoy rewriting!


“If begun… better to finish…” said the guy out loud, as he was taking an evening walk in the city park. On his t-shirt, a colorful imprint in huge, block capitals stood out. It said OLD GUY on the front, LATE STAGE OF END ZONE on the back.

“Hey colorful You! - shouted a caterpillar, tipping forward from a magnolia leaf lying on the side of the path - You seem super busy, but I’m curious! You were mumbling ‘if begun better to finish’ but… what if we don’t even begin?”

“Well, then we are free to rest, little Caterpillar - said the guy with a gentle smile - it’s a personal choice.”

“Really? Do you mean that I can skip all the chrysalis acrobatics, rest on this silky leaf, and just enjoy the breeze, if I choose to?”

“Well… not really, little Caterpillar… We don’t want to stop on any steps! What you are about to do is incredibly beautiful, but whatever your decision, I am so glad our paths have crossed!”

“I get it! No stop on the steps, but before the steps! But... what about you? Where are you going to build your chrysalis?”

“Little Caterpillar… Please don't caterpillarize me, we are all different. Can you not read English? I am late stage old and I don’t intend to start big endeavors of any sorts, OK? I already did the heavy work many years ago, with the help of Karma, and it still holds. Back then, we shed some heavy prejudices to follow love and beauty, and we never looked back. Well… I do look back sometimes, like... often, but only with the eyes of eternal gratitude, I assure you. So no need for new beginnings, because if begun…”

“...better to finish?”

“Exactly! Plus, Karma doesn’t really work like that.”

“Oh… Indeed, I wanted to ask you about this guy, Karma, who helps you tackle work. I would love to rely on Karma too for all my heavy work with chrysalis engineering and all that. May I ask you how much you pay for Karma services?”


“Oh! No, no, little Caterpillar, you don’t understand. I work for Karma, not the other way round. Karma decides for me. And now Karma tells me to rest. You understand, don't you? 49 year ago he told me to quit academia, and 40 years ago he made me quit big prejudices. Then, 37 years ago… well you get the idea. We have been working all our life. So today he’s telling me - rest, old guy. Even this t-shirt is Karma-based by the way.”

“Is it? How lucky though… You actually have an assignment to rest!”

“Well, it is not really so, little Caterpillar. Sometimes Karma gives me a wake-up call, in case I overlooked some cleanup, and then I know I have to attend to it, it’s a process. And I can tell you, I hate shedding layers of dust and cleaning up! But I still do it, of course, it’s my job. And I can tell you more. I would love to love cleaning up and shedding, like all these humble people who are keen on that. They do so much work, and their feet are grounded in the now. But this is, as it were, not my Karma’s style, unfortunately. We have to accept that.”

“I understand… Maybe you could resign, get another assignement and work with what you love? By the way, do you have good work conditions?”

“No, no, no, little Caterpillar, this is a great job. I’m very lucky! My Karma is a very cool type, I am never required to do heavy upgrades. Note, I still keep myself current, all those super interesting things out there, I know they exist, but for what I personally need to do, this is more than enough. You know, I’m not trying to ascend anywhere, nor to guide anyone. I have peace of mind, I have gratitude, I have faith… it’s all included! So yes, conditions are good, I’m staying! I mean, he is staying with me, he decides. Best of luck with your beautiful endeavor, little Caterpillar!"

Little Caterpillar was about to thank the guy, when a biker passed by and squashed it on the ground.

“Our paths are all different - he reflected as he was resuming the walk - as our Karma are. We have to accept that. May our paths be all good, in all their own special ways.”

.
Federica,

I enjoyed your story. Well done. No urge to rewrite. I appreciate your marvelous creativity.
Be calm - Be clear - See the faults - See the suffering - Give your love
User avatar
Lou Gold
Posts: 2025
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:18 pm

Re: New topic split from 'concise criticism of analytic idealism' thread.

Post by Lou Gold »

Lou Gold wrote: Wed Jul 20, 2022 7:36 pm
Federica,

I enjoyed your story. Well done. No urge to rewrite. I appreciate your marvelous creativity.


Your intuitive faculty is marvelous. Quite stimulating for me.

I lived in Brazil for 15 years where belonging -- to a church, club, business, team, whatever -- always meant having a uniform, generally at least a t-shirt. I imagined a colorful t-shirt with CARA VELHO and ESTÁGIO TARDE - ZONA FINAL :D

Later, after contemplating art, philosophy and passages, my playful muse kicked in and gave me this image, which lives in Hawaii beyond the t-shirt zone:

Image
Be calm - Be clear - See the faults - See the suffering - Give your love
User avatar
Lou Gold
Posts: 2025
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:18 pm

Re: New topic split from 'concise criticism of analytic idealism' thread.

Post by Lou Gold »

Returning to the seriousness from the more playful realms, one learns that Monarch butterflies are now an endangered species.
Be calm - Be clear - See the faults - See the suffering - Give your love
User avatar
Lou Gold
Posts: 2025
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:18 pm

Re: New topic split from 'concise criticism of analytic idealism' thread.

Post by Lou Gold »

Continuing on in the spirit of play, Federica, you might enjoy this poem and image that synchronously came to me via a Facebook friend earlier Thursday morning.

Image

this isn't how I planned for
my life to look like," I whispered
under my breath as I walked to my car
"tell me about it,"
an eavesdropping cloud
replied to me from above
I looked up and watched
the cloud billow between looking
like a dove and an open hand
the cloud continued:

"I used to be a snowfield in Montana.
I used to be a dewdrop kiss on a lily.
I used to be a puddle in a parking lot.
I used to be a river in Mexico.
I used to be a glacier.
I used to be a waterfall mist in a jungle.
I used to be so many things."

"doesn't that make you sad?" I asked the cloud

"it used to - but not anymore," the cloud replied while wrapping herself around me like a scarf. "I don't think either of us were created to stay the same form our entire life."

"I’m not sure I can let go of my old life," I sighed.

"oh you simply must," the cloud whispered in my ear.
" because once you release what you used to be
and embrace who you are meant to be now -
something amazing will happen," the cloud said

"what's that?" I asked while looking at my hands that were beginning to billow and shapeshift.

"you'll start to float."

and with that my feet lifted off the ground

~ john roedel

(image: Fran_Kie)
Be calm - Be clear - See the faults - See the suffering - Give your love
User avatar
Federica
Posts: 1745
Joined: Sat May 14, 2022 2:30 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: New topic split from 'concise criticism of analytic idealism' thread.

Post by Federica »

Lou Gold wrote: Thu Jul 21, 2022 1:40 pm
Lou Gold wrote: Wed Jul 20, 2022 7:36 pm
Federica,

I enjoyed your story. Well done. No urge to rewrite. I appreciate your marvelous creativity.


Your intuitive faculty is marvelous. Quite stimulating for me.

I lived in Brazil for 15 years where belonging -- to a church, club, business, team, whatever -- always meant having a uniform, generally at least a t-shirt. I imagined a colorful t-shirt with CARA VELHO and ESTÁGIO TARDE - ZONA FINAL :D

Later, after contemplating art, philosophy and passages, my playful muse kicked in and gave me this image, which lives in Hawaii beyond the t-shirt zone:

Image

: )

I’m glad the story amused you, Lou, and that it prompted you to unleash your creativity here on the forum. Thank you for the beautiful images and poems! Magnificent really is the right word for your magnolia tree…


On rewriting - it was meant as rewriting in life, rather than in words, and you don’t even need to go to the city park, as it seems. : )
By the way I notice you are coming closer and closer to present with your looking back, from 49, to 40, and now 6… way to go!
Maybe after 6+ years of ongoing end-life reviewing, the review report is now done and ready and it’s time to get back onboard?
Maybe you could create for immediate fruition only, now. What do you see in the Hawaiian volcanic cameo, where is she leading you, is this really a deadly end?
And most of all, is today the promise of perhaps still enough to hold your heart in a happy way, or are you about to get yourself a new t-shirt, and what does the print say?

.
In this epoch we have to be fighters for the spirit: man must realise what his powers can give way to, unless they are kept constantly under control for the conquest of the spiritual world. In this fifth epoch, man is entitled to his freedom to the highest degree! He has to go through that.
User avatar
Lou Gold
Posts: 2025
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:18 pm

Re: New topic split from 'concise criticism of analytic idealism' thread.

Post by Lou Gold »

Aloha Federica,

The new t-shirt print would have to say, THANK YOU FOR THIS DAY AND WAY.

My images are sort of a visual storytelling in which I seek to balance and integrate, as best as I can, the many forces constellating or percolating into my awareness.

My friend MOnique Bridges, who knows a lot more about photo editing than I do, suggested that I combine two of my recent photos and we began a collaborative process with this one (below). Perhaps, we'll call it, "Wherever Two Gather." There's a special magic when folks gather to share appreciation. I'm finding it exciting to learn about it. Thank you for being part of the process of drawing more story into my process.

Image
Be calm - Be clear - See the faults - See the suffering - Give your love
Post Reply