'Eating Light' - A Discussion and Exercise for Imagination (Gurdjieff)

[AshvinP]

I came across this post and don't think it really needs any commentary. It goes to show that all we speak of here as developing imagination, higher cognition, living thinking, etc. is not some theory derived by Steiner or any other personality, but the common ideal possession of humanity which has been expressed through a variety of thinkers and can be developed by any individual today, regardless of philosophical or religious knowledge.

Solar Emanation: the use of Light and Image in the making of a Technicolour Dream Coat

A Head for Spirits-
Gurdjieff gives various different exercises that are connected to the 'Second World' and/or 'Inner World of Man'. Many of these exercises involve the use of intentional 'visualization'. This capacity is developed so as to function better, and also, the ableness for the simultaneous engagement of this inner aspect and the outer world is developed.

Developing the mental 'dexterity' and kind of 'vision' that is at work in such visualization exercises, has been considered as necessary for the development of the 'perception' of the 'Second World', which has also been called the 'Spirit World'. If the engagement with this second world is related to the development of the ‘Second Body’, then such mental exercises and abilities are involved in the development and functioning of this second body.

A common principle in these kind of exercises, involves opening the mind to another layer/level of ‘inner vision’, via exercising the given capacity for intentional visualization. This kind of effort and attention has been used in the various construction of sacred images and icons as used in the different religious traditions. The development of a greater inner stability and clarity, when it comes to the formation and use of 'inner images', has been related to the development of Being.

A particular kind of inner image is used in the work of the ‘Head Brain’, where it is used to enable and co-ordinate the action of the ‘Spinal Brain’. Stability and dexterity of the 'imaginal realm', and a greater degree of control over such, is used in establishing the connection with higher centers. The 'stuff' or substance of the mind must be made 'supple', and this done through its exercise. A greater coherence of this substance enables its use in the contact with higher centers, and it is used in the manifestation of an aim where the action of the various centers and functions needs to be made to correspond to the aim. It is used in the direction of the various centers and functions, the true 'inner authority' issues its commands through such a layer/level of mind.

Scratching Plato's Temple-
What is often regarded as the 'Spirit World' or 'World of Spirits', may come to be seen as residing 'in one's head'. A certain 'turning inwards' of attention may throw light upon what is considered as the realm of 'mind'. An intensity of light may reveal a vast 'landscape' inhabited and populated by familiar and unfamiliar faces and forms. The up-turned eyes may look upon the inner domed ceiling and see the familiar angelic choruses, gods, and divinity reaching out.

A greater light, presence, and participation in the 'mental space' reveals a living world, populated by autonomous and/or semi-autonomous 'entities'. One participates in this world to the degree that one is conscious of it. The 'Spirit world' does not just exist 'in one's head' as one's own 'subjective' fabrication. One participates in this world as a living world populated by living 'entities', it is therefore a 'co-creation'. The common feature of the 'Spirit world' is the element of 'life' or 'living-ness', everything is living and, thereby, must be interacted with as something living, as something with a degree of its own 'self affirmation' and being. What is 'dead' or 'inert' in the general world, is living in the 'Spirit world'.

In relation to 'mind' and 'thinking', general thought has the character of the dead and inert. General thought and thinking can be manipulated in a certain fashion without presenting any serious obstacle or resistance, just because it is a dead or inert material. In general thought, the 'content' is regarded as dead or inert and is thereby related to as dead and inert. It may be seen to be dead to the extent that I do not really enter into it, to the extent that I myself am dead to thinking.

There is another kind of thinking, in which everything 'thought' is living. Anything 'thought about' in this way, is entered into and related to as something real and living in itself. In this way, everything 'is what it is' and openly expresses and communicates what it is. To think of something in this way is then to know it directly, and here the word 'know' relates much more to the way it is used in the Bible, to represent sexual intercourse. What is known is done so as a tangible, visceral, intense experience of inter-penetration and inter-permeation. What is known has a degree of reality and independence of its own.

Again, this 'living thinking' is not confined to 'one's head'. This kind of thinking is itself involved in the experience and knowing of a sensory world. This thinking itself is involved in the process whereby a sensory world is known, recognized, and processed etc. To the extent that this thinking remains in the 'background' unnoticed, the external world appears 'dead' and 'impenetrable'. The external world simply then becomes one of 'moving surfaces' whose 'inner' nature cannot be known, a division of 'phenomena' and 'noumena' so to speak. The 'inner nature' then becomes something remote and not accessible to direct experience, requiring some compensative form of middle-man in terms of a certain kind and process of 'reasoning'.

The 'Spirit world' may be regarded both as that which is involved in and required for the creation and experience of 'mind' or 'a' mind, as well as being involved in how a 'world' is formed and known. The external world may appear to be void of 'spirits' to the extent that such 'spirits' have been 'internalized' and screened off through a certain form of 'thinking'. I may have banished them to the nether regions in favour of a certain sense of self in my own mind and thinking. To connect with the 'Spirit world' is then both and 'internal' and 'external' affair, involving both 'thought' and 'perception'. This world itself may be considered as that which links 'thought' and 'perception', 'mind' and 'senses', and enables their two-way interaction and communication.

In another sense, 'Hanbledzoin', as the 'spirit blood' or 'blood of the spirit', may literally be considered as the 'stuff' which 'dreams' are 'made of'.

Eating Light-
Images can be used in all sorts of ways, as they have an evident power. This is the same for outer, or sensory images, as well as inner, or mental images. The ‘refraction’ and ‘reflection’ of light bear the quality of ‘brilliance’; otherwise expressed as ‘dazzling’ and ‘shining’ etc. The apparent ‘movement’ of light, present in the example of light shining upon a crystal or on the surface of water etc, has a certain quality to it. This quality can be engaged intentionally and can be used to influence one’s given state of being. If the quality of ‘brilliance’ is brought into the body and feelings, it can stimulate the ‘subtle’ nature of the body. This is to say that brilliance bears, or corresponds to, a certain ‘somatic’ property. In many cases, the first thing a child will want to do upon seeing a brilliant gem stone, after touching it, is to put it in their mouth or lick it and taste it etc. A child may of course engage in this same process towards many things, and this may simply be taken along the lines of a ‘biological’ and ‘evolutionary’ behaviour that is rooted in the acquisition of food etc etc. I would suggest that the case is otherwise. The world of colour and texture is much more alive and real for the young child, colour and texture provide much more ‘impressional food’ for the young child. Sensations and feeling are more open to the realm of light, texture, and form etc. This is to say that the young child understands the language of light, colour, and texture, and reads this language as it speaks in terms of sensations and feelings. As adults, we may have to learn to reconnect with this realm and re-learn its language, such that we may utilize this language in regard to utilizing our feelings and sensations. This is part of developing ‘being-language’ and concerns understanding of the ‘laws’ of form as they relate to human experience.

One form of inner exercise involves the attempt to create, and hold before oneself, a particular inner image. The inner image is given as much detail as possible, and it is held before oneself with as much directed attention as possible. Different images can be brought together, and movement can also be introduced to the images, in order to develop the complexity and give greater exercise to the attention and mind. The creation of an inner image, and its intentional engagement or direction, can provide a means for the liberation of a higher energy and it can also serve in the way of transforming the given state of consciousness and one's functional capacities. Through this kind of inner exercise, one can become conscious of the processes and capacities that are utilised in the creation and holding of an inner image. Generally, these capacities are simply used, with no attention being paid to how they are used, how these capacities work. So, a man uses visualization and imagination but has no notion of how it is that he does so. Through the intentional use of visualization there is the potential opportunity to gain direct contact with the 'mechanisms' and capacities themselves, rather than the common situation where there is only awareness of the results of these capacities. To become conscious of the 'mechanisms' and capacities themselves represents a transformation in the state or form of consciousness. This has a direct bearing on the development of the 'subtle' senses/faculties and access to the subtle/astral realm.

In terms of sense impressions, awareness can be directed to the quality of light itself, rather than being so much focused on the forms that are 'clothed' by this light. To focus on the light instead of the form can give rise to similar states as are found through the use of 'brilliance' and 'reflection', a certain 'somatic' state can be produced in the body and this can give a potential connection to the 'subconscious' as expressed in such things as 'hypnotism', and this state has potential uses in terms of de-crystalization and healing. In being aware of the light, we can become aware of the 'source' of light, as related to the sun. This can provide a direct experiential connection between oneself and the sun, the sun is felt as a direct presence in one's experience. This presence of the sun can be brought into one's body, the connection can be amplified, and this can produce a similar effect in terms of access to the subtle realm and 'subconscious'. This contact with the presence of the sun can facilitate a separation between the inner and outer world, giving greater coherence to both. A greater organic presence can be established in the body, and a greater psychic presence can be established in the mind, the energy and material of each can be brought to a greater state of cohesion and their relationship can be developed.

Both inner and outer light can be used to bring order to the functions of mind and body, and they can also be used to pass the threshold between the world of 'form' and the world beyond 'form'. This process begins by the establishment of the 'subtle' vision, where a finer level of attention is developed that can receive and engage with impressions of a finer nature. This subtle vision concerns the development of attention such that it is able to engage with the finer and faster actions and content of the centers/brains. Most of the activity of the centers/brains lies below the threshold of the subjective attention/awareness, and hence it takes work to develop the capacity to register and engage with the more subtle content of the centers/brains. This development concerns the interaction of the different centers/brains, such that they may share their individual impressions in a way that leads to a unification of their functioning. The development of the subtle vision requires a certain operational unity between the centers/brains, such that they can come to function as one 'organ' of perception and reason. This evidently requires a balance and mutuality to the centers/brains that is not present in our common functioning and states.

[Federica]

I came across this post and don't think it really needs any commentary. It goes to show that all we speak of here as developing imagination, higher cognition, living thinking, etc. is not some theory derived by Steiner or any other personality, but the common ideal possession of humanity which has been expressed through a variety of thinkers and can be developed by any individual today, regardless of philosophical or religious knowledge.

Solar Emanation: the use of Light and Image in the making of a Technicolour Dream Coat

A Head for Spirits-
Gurdjieff gives various different exercises that are connected to the 'Second World' and/or 'Inner World of Man'. Many of these exercises involve the use of intentional 'visualization'. This capacity is developed so as to function better, and also, the ableness for the simultaneous engagement of this inner aspect and the outer world is developed.

Developing the mental 'dexterity' and kind of 'vision' that is at work in such visualization exercises, has been considered as necessary for the development of the 'perception' of the 'Second World', which has also been called the 'Spirit World'. If the engagement with this second world is related to the development of the ‘Second Body’, then such mental exercises and abilities are involved in the development and functioning of this second body.

A common principle in these kind of exercises, involves opening the mind to another layer/level of ‘inner vision’, via exercising the given capacity for intentional visualization. This kind of effort and attention has been used in the various construction of sacred images and icons as used in the different religious traditions. The development of a greater inner stability and clarity, when it comes to the formation and use of 'inner images', has been related to the development of Being.

A particular kind of inner image is used in the work of the ‘Head Brain’, where it is used to enable and co-ordinate the action of the ‘Spinal Brain’. Stability and dexterity of the 'imaginal realm', and a greater degree of control over such, is used in establishing the connection with higher centers. The 'stuff' or substance of the mind must be made 'supple', and this done through its exercise. A greater coherence of this substance enables its use in the contact with higher centers, and it is used in the manifestation of an aim where the action of the various centers and functions needs to be made to correspond to the aim. It is used in the direction of the various centers and functions, the true 'inner authority' issues its commands through such a layer/level of mind.

Scratching Plato's Temple-
What is often regarded as the 'Spirit World' or 'World of Spirits', may come to be seen as residing 'in one's head'. A certain 'turning inwards' of attention may throw light upon what is considered as the realm of 'mind'. An intensity of light may reveal a vast 'landscape' inhabited and populated by familiar and unfamiliar faces and forms. The up-turned eyes may look upon the inner domed ceiling and see the familiar angelic choruses, gods, and divinity reaching out.

A greater light, presence, and participation in the 'mental space' reveals a living world, populated by autonomous and/or semi-autonomous 'entities'. One participates in this world to the degree that one is conscious of it. The 'Spirit world' does not just exist 'in one's head' as one's own 'subjective' fabrication. One participates in this world as a living world populated by living 'entities', it is therefore a 'co-creation'. The common feature of the 'Spirit world' is the element of 'life' or 'living-ness', everything is living and, thereby, must be interacted with as something living, as something with a degree of its own 'self affirmation' and being. What is 'dead' or 'inert' in the general world, is living in the 'Spirit world'.

In relation to 'mind' and 'thinking', general thought has the character of the dead and inert. General thought and thinking can be manipulated in a certain fashion without presenting any serious obstacle or resistance, just because it is a dead or inert material. In general thought, the 'content' is regarded as dead or inert and is thereby related to as dead and inert. It may be seen to be dead to the extent that I do not really enter into it, to the extent that I myself am dead to thinking.

There is another kind of thinking, in which everything 'thought' is living. Anything 'thought about' in this way, is entered into and related to as something real and living in itself. In this way, everything 'is what it is' and openly expresses and communicates what it is. To think of something in this way is then to know it directly, and here the word 'know' relates much more to the way it is used in the Bible, to represent sexual intercourse. What is known is done so as a tangible, visceral, intense experience of inter-penetration and inter-permeation. What is known has a degree of reality and independence of its own.

Again, this 'living thinking' is not confined to 'one's head'. This kind of thinking is itself involved in the experience and knowing of a sensory world. This thinking itself is involved in the process whereby a sensory world is known, recognized, and processed etc. To the extent that this thinking remains in the 'background' unnoticed, the external world appears 'dead' and 'impenetrable'. The external world simply then becomes one of 'moving surfaces' whose 'inner' nature cannot be known, a division of 'phenomena' and 'noumena' so to speak. The 'inner nature' then becomes something remote and not accessible to direct experience, requiring some compensative form of middle-man in terms of a certain kind and process of 'reasoning'.

The 'Spirit world' may be regarded both as that which is involved in and required for the creation and experience of 'mind' or 'a' mind, as well as being involved in how a 'world' is formed and known. The external world may appear to be void of 'spirits' to the extent that such 'spirits' have been 'internalized' and screened off through a certain form of 'thinking'. I may have banished them to the nether regions in favour of a certain sense of self in my own mind and thinking. To connect with the 'Spirit world' is then both and 'internal' and 'external' affair, involving both 'thought' and 'perception'. This world itself may be considered as that which links 'thought' and 'perception', 'mind' and 'senses', and enables their two-way interaction and communication.

In another sense, 'Hanbledzoin', as the 'spirit blood' or 'blood of the spirit', may literally be considered as the 'stuff' which 'dreams' are 'made of'.

Eating Light-
Images can be used in all sorts of ways, as they have an evident power. This is the same for outer, or sensory images, as well as inner, or mental images. The ‘refraction’ and ‘reflection’ of light bear the quality of ‘brilliance’; otherwise expressed as ‘dazzling’ and ‘shining’ etc. The apparent ‘movement’ of light, present in the example of light shining upon a crystal or on the surface of water etc, has a certain quality to it. This quality can be engaged intentionally and can be used to influence one’s given state of being. If the quality of ‘brilliance’ is brought into the body and feelings, it can stimulate the ‘subtle’ nature of the body. This is to say that brilliance bears, or corresponds to, a certain ‘somatic’ property. In many cases, the first thing a child will want to do upon seeing a brilliant gem stone, after touching it, is to put it in their mouth or lick it and taste it etc. A child may of course engage in this same process towards many things, and this may simply be taken along the lines of a ‘biological’ and ‘evolutionary’ behaviour that is rooted in the acquisition of food etc etc. I would suggest that the case is otherwise. The world of colour and texture is much more alive and real for the young child, colour and texture provide much more ‘impressional food’ for the young child. Sensations and feeling are more open to the realm of light, texture, and form etc. This is to say that the young child understands the language of light, colour, and texture, and reads this language as it speaks in terms of sensations and feelings. As adults, we may have to learn to reconnect with this realm and re-learn its language, such that we may utilize this language in regard to utilizing our feelings and sensations. This is part of developing ‘being-language’ and concerns understanding of the ‘laws’ of form as they relate to human experience.

One form of inner exercise involves the attempt to create, and hold before oneself, a particular inner image. The inner image is given as much detail as possible, and it is held before oneself with as much directed attention as possible. Different images can be brought together, and movement can also be introduced to the images, in order to develop the complexity and give greater exercise to the attention and mind. The creation of an inner image, and its intentional engagement or direction, can provide a means for the liberation of a higher energy and it can also serve in the way of transforming the given state of consciousness and one's functional capacities. Through this kind of inner exercise, one can become conscious of the processes and capacities that are utilised in the creation and holding of an inner image. Generally, these capacities are simply used, with no attention being paid to how they are used, how these capacities work. So, a man uses visualization and imagination but has no notion of how it is that he does so. Through the intentional use of visualization there is the potential opportunity to gain direct contact with the 'mechanisms' and capacities themselves, rather than the common situation where there is only awareness of the results of these capacities. To become conscious of the 'mechanisms' and capacities themselves represents a transformation in the state or form of consciousness. This has a direct bearing on the development of the 'subtle' senses/faculties and access to the subtle/astral realm.

In terms of sense impressions, awareness can be directed to the quality of light itself, rather than being so much focused on the forms that are 'clothed' by this light. To focus on the light instead of the form can give rise to similar states as are found through the use of 'brilliance' and 'reflection', a certain 'somatic' state can be produced in the body and this can give a potential connection to the 'subconscious' as expressed in such things as 'hypnotism', and this state has potential uses in terms of de-crystalization and healing. In being aware of the light, we can become aware of the 'source' of light, as related to the sun. This can provide a direct experiential connection between oneself and the sun, the sun is felt as a direct presence in one's experience. This presence of the sun can be brought into one's body, the connection can be amplified, and this can produce a similar effect in terms of access to the subtle realm and 'subconscious'. This contact with the presence of the sun can facilitate a separation between the inner and outer world, giving greater coherence to both. A greater organic presence can be established in the body, and a greater psychic presence can be established in the mind, the energy and material of each can be brought to a greater state of cohesion and their relationship can be developed.

Both inner and outer light can be used to bring order to the functions of mind and body, and they can also be used to pass the threshold between the world of 'form' and the world beyond 'form'. This process begins by the establishment of the 'subtle' vision, where a finer level of attention is developed that can receive and engage with impressions of a finer nature. This subtle vision concerns the development of attention such that it is able to engage with the finer and faster actions and content of the centers/brains. Most of the activity of the centers/brains lies below the threshold of the subjective attention/awareness, and hence it takes work to develop the capacity to register and engage with the more subtle content of the centers/brains. This development concerns the interaction of the different centers/brains, such that they may share their individual impressions in a way that leads to a unification of their functioning. The development of the subtle vision requires a certain operational unity between the centers/brains, such that they can come to function as one 'organ' of perception and reason. This evidently requires a balance and mutuality to the centers/brains that is not present in our common functioning and states.

What a useful read, Ashvin, thanks! It’s interesting to see how the same concepts can be rendered with different vocabulary, from slightly different personal standpoints. This ‘new’ take is beneficial as a means to revisit and consolidate ideas that we frequently encounter here, through someone else's eyes, from a different angle. (Martin, if you are reading - and especially now that you have shared some of your cultural background - I suspect you might like this take).
It really is striking how the same ideas can be painted in different styles. So I thought I’d put side by side some of these equivalences, Ashvin's and Cleric's painting school-Gurdjieff painting school:


Concentration of thinking ≅ the 'stuff' or substance of the mind must be made 'supple', and this done through its exercise.

Hysteresis process ≅ visualization with attention to how the capacity works rather than only to the results of this capacity.

Living experience ≅ knowing, as in sex.

Adopting the first-person perspective ≅ developing a ‘being-language’.

Dualism = The 'inner nature' becomes something remote and not accessible to direct experience, requiring some compensative form of middle-man in terms of a certain kind and process of 'reasoning'.

Our intellect and its concepts, as well as outer perceptions mediated by those concepts, precipitate from higher cognition / are dead precipitations ≅ in general thought, the 'content' is regarded as dead or inert. It may be seen to be dead to the extent that I do not really enter into it.

When moving our imagination in fluid ways, we'll soon notice that we spontaneously encounter similar motions - initially, primarily in our own body ≅ A greater organic presence can be established in the body / producing a certain ‘somatic’, healing state in the body.

When we step into the flow of the Divine Love, it is as if this flow acts as comb. It straightens our subtle channels, unties knots, purges blockages ≅ Both inner and outer light can be used to bring order to the functions of mind and body.

Wavefunction ≅ the interaction of the different centers/brains, such that they may share their individual impressions in a way that leads to a unification of their functioning.

There's actual spiritual will behind everything, which is of thought nature and is responsible for the dynamics of the World Content ≅ this 'living thinking' is not confined to 'one's head'. This kind of thinking is itself involved in the experience and knowing of a sensory world. To the extent that this thinking remains unnoticed, the external world appears 'dead' and 'impenetrable'.

PoF hyper-summarized ≅ To connect with the 'Spirit world' is both and 'internal' and 'external' affair, involving both 'thought' and 'perception'. This world itself may be considered as that which links 'thought' and 'perception', 'mind' and 'senses', and enables their two-way interaction.


Also sharing what I’ve done next. Has anyone else tried? I opened one of those pics or clips of light shimmering effects on some body of water, that most of us have on our phones and tried to look at it moving away from the eye-catching effect on the water surface, and into the origin of that effect, trying to enter the quality of the phenomenon. So instead of noticing the graceful shimmering, one might get a sense of expansion, or complete reformatting, or ‘encompassion’ (provided that the word exists, which is dubious, but I want to keep it). It sounds far-fetched, but it’s actually not difficult to do, as an attempt. I guess the difficulty is to really take action, pick up that phone, or even better, go and take a walk by the water with such a purpose.

[mikekatz]

Hi Ashvin

What is the source of this post?

[AshvinP]

Hi Ashvin

What is the source of this post?

Hey Mike,

I found it on a Facebook post -

I'm not sure what work(s) it is sourced from.

It looks like I left off some of the post - here is the rest:

The Sacred Image-
The Spirit moves upon the waters, and the waters are the material of 'mind'. Images have been used for aeons as a way to develop the inner world. It is only recently that they became perceived as an issue in terms of coming between man and God, or where the image may be 'identified' with etc. The use of the inner image forming capacity can be significant in development our inner world such that it can bear a higher 'vision', which may then be communicated to the centers as a Logos command. There really is no problem with the use of images, and they can be necessary to develop the higher inner eye of the heart. It is true that prayer need not use an obvious image, but essentially all pray utilizes images, whether they are gross or subtle images. Mentation by form, which includes but also goes beyond images, is important to develop and plays a role in the Spiritualization of the 'mind'. In the Christ, the image and the Father are one.

An 'image' is essentially a form of 'containment' in which a certain 'law' or quality may manifest. Thus in true prayer the Man creates an 'image' in his 'inner world'. The inner world here corresponds to thought, feeling, and sensation. The image is then a creation of the three brains. The Man brings an image before himself in his inner world, and this image is then given life by the 'spirit blood', or hanbledzoin, of the individual. The man gives of the blood of his being to breath life into the image, such that the image becomes living. For the image to come alive means that the three brains participate in the creation of the image, adding the corresponding feeling and sensing elements to the mental image. This evidently requires one's own 'being knowledge' in order to be able to provide the corresponding feeling and sensing elements, and there is also the need here for the brains to be able to communicate effectively, such that they can then move as one. Here prayer can be seen as creative invokation, prayer is creative and developmental in the way of being and understanding. To make oneself 'law conformable', to make the inner world conform to the 'law' of the given image, is a work of Spiritualization. When the inner world conforms to the law of an image, then this likeness can serve as a Host to the Holy Host, and the Higher may descend into to prepared Bridal Chamber, bringing transformation and transubstantiation to the inner world.

In the Work there are various exercises which can aid the development of the inner world. One mode of 'exercise' can be seen in The Movements, where 'images' are literally 'embodied' and transubstantiated through the being-efforts of the performers. The Movement is then Moving Prayer, where an effort is made to make the inner world conform to the 'image' present in the given movement. The energies of mind, feeling and body are offered to the 'spirit' of the given movement, and when there is a degree of correspondence between the 'spirit' and the performer there can then be a liberation of 'higher energy' and 'finer impressions' etc. The given 'spirit' of the movement descends and 'coats' the individual. All this is done by way of 'image' and likeness etc. All 'magicians' of various kinds know how to utilize 'images' in order to bring their being into a certain state, in order to mobilize themselves as one totality. Again, it needs to be seen that 'image' goes beyond the obvious notion of a visual picture etc. 'Image' is what can serve for the 'concentration' of 'Will'. Gurdjieff links this concentration to the utilisation of hanbledzoin, which can be used to various ends. Gurdjieff remarked on his own uses in this direction, such as with putting a Yak to sleep from a distance, or splitting tables, or even simply aiding to heal people etc. This is all done by the bringing to life of an 'image' in one's inner world, and making the inner world submit to this 'image' and its related 'laws' and qualities. The 'image' is 'enacted' in one's own Being, and the quality of this 'acting' will determine the results.

Finish Eating your Third Food, or no Dessert!
(When the Living substance of Thinking is Breathed into the Body.)
Gurdjieff mentions the necessary degree of liberation which comes when the mind is able to have independence from the emotions, rather than simply being identified with them and becoming a resulting function of them. This goes beyond the simple notion of the 'non expression of negative emotion' and the ableness to have a greater awareness of thought than is average. Gurdjieff mentions various sources of interference and disturbance to the ability to 'think clearly'; or to 'clearly constate', 'actively mentate', and 'Reason' etc. Some of these sources are placed in the emotions and in the organic nature. Gurdjieff mentions the general fickle nature of the emotions, which function akin to a chemical compound in a state of constant flux due to interactions with other chemicals in the environment. Gurdjieff also mentions the general functioning of the planetary body, as particularly expressed in the operation of the stomach and sex organs, as a 'pre-occupation' and concern that is inhibiting to 'clear thinking'.

Gurdjieff expresses the vital importance of 'clear thinking' in work on oneself, going so far as to say that it can be the only way to overcome certain barriers in oneself and one's nature. This 'clear thinking' and 'logical confrontation' requires that the mentioned sources of interference and disturbance cease to hinder us, and instead come to offer their energy and substance to this process of 'constatation'. This process then involves more than what we generally experience and call 'rational thought', which, valid as it may be in some domain, is certainly not a 'three-centered' Reasoning in which feelings and body play a due part. Active mentation requires that the 'world of thought' become more 'real'; becoming a living and vital world rather than simply a shadow play of vagueries, which, vague and lacking in Being as they are, may be believed to be concrete 'truths' and invested with much energy. The 'life' of thinking, its vital force and substance, must come to light within the being. Instead of feeding on the partially digested and regurgitated products of the third food, the fresh source itself may be engaged with and fed upon. This is like moving from the 'chicken soup', or some artificial chicken flavouring, to the actual whole roast chicken. The substance, force, and vitality of thinking must come to be discerned itself, in order for us to be able to feed upon such and utilize its potential. The living thought can be a means to the creation of the 'Real inner world of Man', and can be that which can exercise authority over the other centers in a transformational way.

Independent thought is possible due to the principle embedded in our Head brain, which makes us three-brained beings and thereby able to reflect the Law of Three and three Holy Forces in a particular way that allows for real initiative. This principle has a degree of independence from the life of the feelings and life of the body, there is something else present in its nature which distinguishes it, and this can give an added degree of freedom. This principle can draw from the life of the feelings and body and it can also impart into them. To this extent, there is a degree of 'dislocation' between the world of the mind and the world of the body. The 'finer' can permeate the 'coarser' and it can draw from the material of the coarser in its work to inform the coarser and create with it. The 'mind' can have independence from the body and emotions precisely because it has the creative capacity towards them. The Head brain then has the possibility to create a new world, using the material of the feelings and body. This requires that the essence of thinking, its force and substance, becomes liberated or awake to itself, so that it may realize this potential and engage in this work and action.

In this awakening or realization of its own essential nature, thinking becomes a new world itself. This may be considered as the first 'opening of the eyes' to the 'higher worlds' which we may associate with the Higher Being Bodies. The 'Kesdjanian world' permeates and penetrates ours, it is separate and distinct and yet it also merges with and takes part in the world of the planetary body. Its action has a degree of independence from the world of the planetary body, and yet there is mutual interaction and relation. The new world that a being may be born into upon realizing and entering the kesdjan world has its own affairs and concerns, but it also has a role and concern towards the world of the planetary body. It is through the kesdjan world that a new world may be born in the world of the planetary body, the kesdjan world holds the 'embryo' of this new world that is awaiting to be birthed. Man is called to work and toil in the 'inner worlds' just as much as he is called to work in the outer world. The 'vision' of the new world that is to be birthed must be grasped and held in the living thinking of Man, the man must give the substance and vitality of his thinking to this end. The new world that is to come, then being birthed in his thinking, can come to be born in the outer world. The required forms and energies may be concentrated in his thinking, such that they can then be 'emanated into the surrounding space'. The world that is to be born then being clothed in the energies of the feelings and body, coming to be actualized and manifest.

[mikekatz]

Hi Ashvin

Gurdjieff's work has been highly misappropriated. I've read all his works in detail, and first-person reporting from his direct pupils, and this is nothing like that. Here and there this post uses some of Gurdjieff's special vocabulary, and does draw on the general directions of his work. Most quoted words are highly technical, and terms like hanbledzoin, kesjdan, and others, have dense meanings and interconnections within his system.

So this is like someone reading Steiner's works and appropriating bits and pieces into a seemingly coherent post, without the real intent or meaning coming through.

Having said that, I have said to you before that having read some of Steiner in detail, there seem to be many striking concordances between Steiner and Gurdjieff.

As mentioned on the "This Forum" topic, it's a difficult and time-consuming task to properly know (in the biblical sense) and live a whole system of thought. Doing the same for two similar systems and then comparing them would probably devolve into a pure intellectual exercise. Frederica, I commend your effort to find the similarities!

Ashvin, thanks for this post. I accept, and always have accepted, your main take-away (I think) that Steiner is not an outlier kooky system. The corollary of that is that there are also other systems that equally embody the same truths. It's up to each of us to find our own way home.

[AshvinP]

Hi Ashvin

Gurdjieff's work has been highly misappropriated. I've read all his works in detail, and first-person reporting from his direct pupils, and this is nothing like that. Here and there this post uses some of Gurdjieff's special vocabulary, and does draw on the general directions of his work. Most quoted words are highly technical, and terms like hanbledzoin, kesjdan, and others, have dense meanings and interconnections within his system.

So this is like someone reading Steiner's works and appropriating bits and pieces into a seemingly coherent post, without the real intent or meaning coming through.

Having said that, I have said to you before that having read some of Steiner in detail, there seem to be many striking concordances between Steiner and Gurdjieff.

As mentioned on the "This Forum" topic, it's a difficult and time-consuming task to properly know (in the biblical sense) and live a whole system of thought. Doing the same for two similar systems and then comparing them would probably devolve into a pure intellectual exercise. Frederica, I commend your effort to find the similarities!

Ashvin, thanks for this post. I accept, and always have accepted, your main take-away (I think) that Steiner is not an outlier kooky system. The corollary of that is that there are also other systems that equally embody the same truths. It's up to each of us to find our own way home.

Mike,

I am open to your critique, since I am not familiar with Gurdjieff's work. I will say that I was surprised how often 'thinking' was mentioned in a primary role, since, in my experience, very few other occult streams emphasize that like Steiner did. On the other hand, Gurdjieff is clearly referring to the same 'imaginal realm' and exercises for imagination that Steiner refers to, with much of the same underlying reasoning for why it will work. I think Federica's correspondences seem accurate as well. Of course, Steiner goes well beyond the 'imaginal realm' in his spiritual evolutionary cosmology and modes of higher cognition which can be attained to verify it.

I am given some hesitation when you say - "Doing the same for two similar systems and then comparing them would probably devolve into a pure intellectual exercise." Perhaps, but I'm sure it wouldn't take all of that for you to substantiate your claim - "So this is like someone reading Steiner's works and appropriating bits and pieces into a seemingly coherent post, without the real intent or meaning coming through."

It seems you would only need to give us one or two examples of passages from Gurdjieff where the 'real intent or meaning come through', in contradistinction to what was conveyed in the post. Are you able to do that?

[mikekatz]

Hi Ashvin

Gurdjieff's main aim as a teacher was to first wake people up. When you read memoirs of his pupils, and his pupils' pupils, you see how the pupils are deliberately put into difficult physical and/or emotional situations to shake them out of their sleep. It was a ruthless business. This could take months or even longer. No formal explication of his system was given until a pupil achieved a sufficient level of self-awareness. This is also why there are exposes about him claiming he was a charlatan, because many pupils just could not bear the treatment he gave.

The whole thrust of his teaching was to first establish and then make permanent the state of self-remembering we discussed so vigorously awhile back. This is part of creating what he called the second being body, something which could survive the death of the physical body. It was a development of pure will, and did not require any intellectual knowledge of a system. One had to tame one's body, mind, and emotions and see that they were part of what he called "false personality", i.e. not part of a person's essence.

Until you destroy or at least control false personality, knowledge of the system is just theoretical at best or not understood properly at worst, being seen with tainted glasses of our programming via education and society at large.

So taking any passages from Gurdjieff's own writings would be meaningless. In fact, when Gurdjieff realised he had to put his system into written form, he wrote "Beelzebub's Tales to His Grandson" in as cryptic a form as anything you can read anywhere. He says he wanted to talk beyond false personality and force readers to question everything about their so-called normal lives.

Gurdjieff's star pupil Ouspensky broke with Gurdjieff precisely for this reason. When Gurdjieff started supplying his system in detail to Ouspensky and others who were at the requisite level, Ouspensky would write down the conversations every evening - he had a prodigious memory. He eventually published these notes in "In Search of the Miraculous" and other writings. Gurdjieff was not pleased.

I posted earlier quotes from Ouspensky's "In Search of the Miraculous" about how Gurdjieff introduced the notion of self-remembering, and the notion that people's normal state is what he called "waking sleep". In waking sleep, i.e. not being aware of our consciousness and only being aware of the OBJECTS of our consciousness, we cannot (biblically) know anything. Whatever is the content of our consciousness, whether it's an object, perception, system of thought, emotion, etc., traps us. We cannot see the content of our consciousness objectively because it's filtered through our ego with it's programming.

So yes, I don't believe it's possible to understand the confluences or lack thereof between two systems unless one is able to LIVE the systems. Just knowing the words and the concepts doesn't lead anywhere, even with one system. And I personally am nowhere near that level, so I can't give you a satisfactory comparison.

I'll finally add, just so that you can maybe appreciate where I am, that I find Rupert Spira to be a superb teacher. He's worked with many traditions, including Gurdjieff's, via pupils of his. More than anyone I know, I believe he has understood that the first thing to get to grips with is our lack of awareness. He expounds no system at all, he just focusses on getting us to be conscious. He doesn't claim this to be the ultimate, and neither does he claim it's not the ultimate. He just wants us to actually get there and then see for ourselves, because you can't get further without that. He's distilled all the teachings I know of into the simplest and purest form.

[AshvinP]

Hi Ashvin

Gurdjieff's main aim as a teacher was to first wake people up. When you read memoirs of his pupils, and his pupils' pupils, you see how the pupils are deliberately put into difficult physical and/or emotional situations to shake them out of their sleep. It was a ruthless business. This could take months or even longer. No formal explication of his system was given until a pupil achieved a sufficient level of self-awareness. This is also why there are exposes about him claiming he was a charlatan, because many pupils just could not bear the treatment he gave.

The whole thrust of his teaching was to first establish and then make permanent the state of self-remembering we discussed so vigorously awhile back. This is part of creating what he called the second being body, something which could survive the death of the physical body. It was a development of pure will, and did not require any intellectual knowledge of a system. One had to tame one's body, mind, and emotions and see that they were part of what he called "false personality", i.e. not part of a person's essence.

Until you destroy or at least control false personality, knowledge of the system is just theoretical at best or not understood properly at worst, being seen with tainted glasses of our programming via education and society at large.

So taking any passages from Gurdjieff's own writings would be meaningless. In fact, when Gurdjieff realised he had to put his system into written form, he wrote "Beelzebub's Tales to His Grandson" in as cryptic a form as anything you can read anywhere. He says he wanted to talk beyond false personality and force readers to question everything about their so-called normal lives.

Gurdjieff's star pupil Ouspensky broke with Gurdjieff precisely for this reason. When Gurdjieff started supplying his system in detail to Ouspensky and others who were at the requisite level, Ouspensky would write down the conversations every evening - he had a prodigious memory. He eventually published these notes in "In Search of the Miraculous" and other writings. Gurdjieff was not pleased.

I posted earlier quotes from Ouspensky's "In Search of the Miraculous" about how Gurdjieff introduced the notion of self-remembering, and the notion that people's normal state is what he called "waking sleep". In waking sleep, i.e. not being aware of our consciousness and only being aware of the OBJECTS of our consciousness, we cannot (biblically) know anything. Whatever is the content of our consciousness, whether it's an object, perception, system of thought, emotion, etc., traps us. We cannot see the content of our consciousness objectively because it's filtered through our ego with it's programming.

So yes, I don't believe it's possible to understand the confluences or lack thereof between two systems unless one is able to LIVE the systems. Just knowing the words and the concepts doesn't lead anywhere, even with one system. And I personally am nowhere near that level, so I can't give you a satisfactory comparison.

I'll finally add, just so that you can maybe appreciate where I am, that I find Rupert Spira to be a superb teacher. He's worked with many traditions, including Gurdjieff's, via pupils of his. More than anyone I know, I believe he has understood that the first thing to get to grips with is our lack of awareness. He expounds no system at all, he just focusses on getting us to be conscious. He doesn't claim this to be the ultimate, and neither does he claim it's not the ultimate. He just wants us to actually get there and then see for ourselves, because you can't get further without that. He's distilled all the teachings I know of into the simplest and purest form.

It sounds like Gurdjjeff was hanging onto some regressive occult practices. Certainly I think Ouspensky was correct to criticize the unnecessary crypticism. These higher realities should be communicated clearly, plainly, and precisely, amenable to our scientific cognition.

Anyway, perhaps you are correct it makes little sense to try and figure out what teachings between what teachers line up here. I'm more wondering if you take issue with the teachings expressed in the OP, which point to supra-conscious *thinking* as the path to knowing higher worlds and their beings who are always interwoven and influencing the physical plane?

[mikekatz]

It sounds like Gurdjjeff was hanging onto some regressive occult practices. Certainly I think Ouspensky was correct to criticize the unnecessary crypticism. These higher realities should be communicated clearly, plainly, and precisely, amenable to our scientific cognition.

What does "clearly, plainly and precisely" actually mean? It means that when I read or hear something, I can relate it to my worldview. It makes sense to me. There may be new knowledge in what I hear, and that new knowledge will clarify or refine my worldview, but it's still relative to how I see the world.

But that's NOT what Steiner or Gurdjieff et al. are after! They are looking to completely radicalise or break our current worldview. You can't move to the vertical by travelling along the horizontal. You can't even understand that there is a vertical by moving along the horizontal.

That's what parables are for, and Zen koans. They are precisely to bypass the intellect, the current worldview, and force the listener to re-evaluate and make sense of something OUTSIDE their normal worldview - to breakthrough into the vertical.

Gurdjieff invented words in Beelzebub, and he then told stories about the "strange, three-brained beings" who inhabit the planet Earth. In the stories, he explains some of those terms by showing our standard societal behaviour. It's comical and tragic at the same time. But it does succeed in taking you into the vertical, just by experiencing how we are, afresh. So the vertical becomes experiential, as it should be, and not intellectual, as it is if we look at it "normally".

And isn't this what you and Cleric are constantly emphasising, that it's real work to see things correctly? In our day and age, breaking through into the vertical is something completely different from anything we are brought up by society to conceive. We need a shock, and you can't shock someone who is trying to incorporate what you are saying into their worldview.

While researching to reply to your second paragraph below I came upon this, that perhaps explains what I'm trying to say better than I have:

Establishment in higher worlds has long been pictured as involving a ‘change of mind’, however, this has often come to mean simply a change of ‘opinion’ in relation to some topic, as expressed in a change of attitude and behaviour towards something. This is quite different to a transformation of the given ‘mind’ itself, a transformation of the nature of ‘mind’ itself, rather than simply a change of content to the given form of ‘mind’.

I think that expresses it well - this whole work is not about revising one's worldview, it's about totally revolutionising one's worldview. From that point of view, it's actually important that what one hears does not make sense intellectually.

Anyway, perhaps you are correct it makes little sense to try and figure out what teachings between what teachers line up here. I'm more wondering if you take issue with the teachings expressed in the OP, which point to supra-conscious *thinking* as the path to knowing higher worlds and their beings who are always interwoven and influencing the physical plane?

Without wishing to debate this all over again, "supra-conscious *thinking*" is as obscure a phrase as you can get to an outsider. It's quite possible it means something similar to Gudjieff's "kesdjan body" and "hanbledzoin":

In the Work, there is the requirement for a being to use their own living substance in order to bring their ‘inner world’ to life. The inner world has to be made living through a being’s own creative action. The ‘Spirit world’ is often depicted as requiring ‘blood sacrifice’, and in terms of an individual’s own access to the ‘Spirit world’, we can see this ‘blood sacrifice’ as representing the use of a being’s own ‘life force’ in order to ‘blow life’ into their inner world.
In the terms of the Work, this living substance is expressed in relation to ‘Hanbledzoin’, the ‘blood of the spirit’. This ‘spirit blood’ is also expressed as the blood of the Kesdjan body. This ‘blood’ is present in every man, present in different degrees of vivifyingness and coherence. This substance is at work in his common functioning, but particular expressions of it can be found in the activity of dream and imagination.

But then again, maybe it's completely different. Really, unless you are living the system, either formulation is just words.

By the way, both these external quotes come from here:
https://gurdjieffandbeelzebub.wordpress ... it-vessel/


I can only repeat what I said before about Rupert Spira: "He expounds no system at all, he just focusses on getting us to be conscious. He doesn't claim this to be the ultimate, and neither does he claim it's not the ultimate. He just wants us to actually get there and then see for ourselves, because you can't get further without that. He's distilled all the teachings I know of into the simplest and purest form."

And of course what I mean is getting to the vertical.

Thanks for your time, Frederica is keeping you really busy,

[AshvinP]

It sounds like Gurdjjeff was hanging onto some regressive occult practices. Certainly I think Ouspensky was correct to criticize the unnecessary crypticism. These higher realities should be communicated clearly, plainly, and precisely, amenable to our scientific cognition.

What does "clearly, plainly and precisely" actually mean? It means that when I read or hear something, I can relate it to my worldview. It makes sense to me. There may be new knowledge in what I hear, and that new knowledge will clarify or refine my worldview, but it's still relative to how I see the world.

But that's NOT what Steiner or Gurdjieff et al. are after! They are looking to completely radicalise or break our current worldview. You can't move to the vertical by travelling along the horizontal. You can't even understand that there is a vertical by moving along the horizontal.

That's what parables are for, and Zen koans. They are precisely to bypass the intellect, the current worldview, and force the listener to re-evaluate and make sense of something OUTSIDE their normal worldview - to breakthrough into the vertical.

Mike,

I think here is a major difference between Steiner and many other esoteric thinkers, such as Gurdjieff. The former shows us how to move vertically through the unfamiliar and unsuspected in a highly disciplined and scientific way, without completely forsaking our sensory experience and conceptual thinking. It is really a tremendous thing he was able to do in his writings and lectures. As you say, most people will resort to parables, poems, metaphors, fantastical images, cryptic messages, etc. to 'bypass the intellect' (even though this is not actually done, but rather than intellect is obscured yet still interpreting all the spiritual knowledge consumed). Steiner revealed to humanity a different way through the intellect, through our scientific reasoning. And when one discovers the living reality of this way, it becomes very difficult to justify the old 'bypassing intellect' ways, which actually remain on the horizontal more than they care to admit. The horizontal is there for a reason - precisely to provide the spiritual tools needed for the vertical ascent - and if we bypass the horizontal, we are failing to take advantage of those tools. On the spiritual scientific path, we are discovering how all of modern science, in all its power and precision, can be expanded to encompass dynamics of soul and spirit, and thereby redeemed from the secular materialistic age. It can be and has been conveyed in a clear and precise manner, even if it's in terminology or style we are not familiar with at first.

Gurdjieff invented words in Beelzebub, and he then told stories about the "strange, three-brained beings" who inhabit the planet Earth. In the stories, he explains some of those terms by showing our standard societal behaviour. It's comical and tragic at the same time. But it does succeed in taking you into the vertical, just by experiencing how we are, afresh. So the vertical becomes experiential, as it should be, and not intellectual, as it is if we look at it "normally".

And isn't this what you and Cleric are constantly emphasising, that it's real work to see things correctly? In our day and age, breaking through into the vertical is something completely different from anything we are brought up by society to conceive. We need a shock, and you can't shock someone who is trying to incorporate what you are saying into their worldview.

While researching to reply to your second paragraph below I came upon this, that perhaps explains what I'm trying to say better than I have:

Establishment in higher worlds has long been pictured as involving a ‘change of mind’, however, this has often come to mean simply a change of ‘opinion’ in relation to some topic, as expressed in a change of attitude and behaviour towards something. This is quite different to a transformation of the given ‘mind’ itself, a transformation of the nature of ‘mind’ itself, rather than simply a change of content to the given form of ‘mind’.

I think that expresses it well - this whole work is not about revising one's worldview, it's about totally revolutionising one's worldview. From that point of view, it's actually important that what one hears does not make sense intellectually.

Some of that is valid, but we neither should nor can abandon the intellectual understanding anytime soon. We don't need to let it sit on the sidelines, occupying itself with purely physical impressions and concepts, either. It can be directed towards lofty spiritual ideas which provide a structured foundation for our experiential ascent into the higher worlds. All such spiritual journeys require preparation and the spiritualized intellect is the great preparer, like John the Baptist before Christ. We have never said what one hears from Steiner or us should not make sense intellectually, but quite the opposite. It should make so much sense that the intellect is forced by its own Logic to recognize higher realities which it will only grasp through living thinking experience, when it progressively allows portions of itself to die and be reborn on higher planes.

Without wishing to debate this all over again, "supra-conscious *thinking*" is as obscure a phrase as you can get to an outsider. It's quite possible it means something similar to Gudjieff's "kesdjan body" and "hanbledzoin":

In the Work, there is the requirement for a being to use their own living substance in order to bring their ‘inner world’ to life. The inner world has to be made living through a being’s own creative action. The ‘Spirit world’ is often depicted as requiring ‘blood sacrifice’, and in terms of an individual’s own access to the ‘Spirit world’, we can see this ‘blood sacrifice’ as representing the use of a being’s own ‘life force’ in order to ‘blow life’ into their inner world.
In the terms of the Work, this living substance is expressed in relation to ‘Hanbledzoin’, the ‘blood of the spirit’. This ‘spirit blood’ is also expressed as the blood of the Kesdjan body. This ‘blood’ is present in every man, present in different degrees of vivifyingness and coherence. This substance is at work in his common functioning, but particular expressions of it can be found in the activity of dream and imagination.

But then again, maybe it's completely different. Really, unless you are living the system, either formulation is just words.

Actually that sounds very aligned with supra-conscious thinking, i.e. Imaginative cognition as Steiner employs it, except more vague. It is similar to what the person posted on the OP as well, which you previously seemed to think was way off. Regardless, these 'just words' can be really helpful in orienting us towards what it is we are participating in when living the system. All perceptions and concepts are, at root, highly rigidified images of the Spirit, and they will come back to their flowing life in proportion to how much we develop our own living thinking.

To begin with today we will remind ourselves of the indications I have given you concerning the real nature of human thinking. In the present age, since the well-known point of time in the 15th century, our thinking has become essentially abstract, devoid of pictures and imagery. People take pride in this kind of thinking which as we know, did not begin to be general until the above-mentioned epoch; previously to that, thinking had been pictorial and was therefore a living thinking in the real sense.

Let us remind ourselves of the essential character of thinking as it is today. The living essence of thinking was within us during the period between death and rebirth, before we descended from the spiritual into the physical world. This living essence was then cast off and today... our thinking is the corpse of that living thinking between death and a new birth. It is just because our thinking now is devoid of life that our ordinary-level consciousness as modern men makes it so easy for us to be satisfied with comprehending the lifeless and we have no aptitude for understanding the living nature of the world around us.
...
But now the question arises: If we want to understand Nature, if we want to form a world-conception for ourselves, how are the sense-world outside us and the dead thinking within us to be related to each other? We must be quite clear that when man confronts the world today, he confronts it with lifeless thinking. But then, is there death also outside in the world? There ought at least to be an inkling today that there is not. In the colours, in the sounds, at the very least, life seems to proclaim its presence everywhere! To one who understands the real nature of the senses the remarkable fact becomes clear that although modern man invariably directs his attention to the sense-world alone, he cannot grasp this sense-world by means of thinking, because dead thoughts are simply not applicable to the living sense-world.

Make this quite clear to yourselves. — Man confronts the sense-world today and believes that he should not allow himself to look beyond it. But what does this mean for modern man — not to be willing to look beyond the sense-world? It actually means renouncing all vision and all knowledge. For neither colour, nor sound, nor warmth, can be grasped at all by dead thinking. Man thinks, then, in an element quite other than that in which he actually lives.