Insight into the full nature of reality

[AshvinP]

Experience alone can say, and unity, if it exists, will appear at the end of the search as a result; it is impossible to posit it at the start as a principle. Furthermore, it will be a rich, full unity, the unity of a continuity, the unity of our reality, and not that abstract and empty unity, which has come from one supreme generalization, and which could just as well be that of any possible world whatsoever.

- Henri Bergson, The Creative Mind: An Introduction to Metaphysics (1946)

I fully agree with what Bergson said. On the other hand, if we say that this unity is so far away distant from us that we should not even think of it at our current stage, or even worse, deny even a possibility of it altogether, that would be equally bad. We should still keep it on the map, on the plan of our evolutionary travel, without taking it as an abstract philosophical principle, but as an evolutionary and experiential gate along the way, just as a compass to keep a sense of direction and not to deviate from the path. That is why all spiritual traditions of the past had this Unity with the Divine encoded in their scriptures.

Another thing is, this "passing of the unity gate" is usually not a distant one time-event (although sometimes it is) and usually happens very gradually even while we are still at far away from passing gate, it's like St. Paul described it as "may He increase and I diminish".

I'm assuming Federica and/or Cleric will be responding to your geometrical-metaphorical analogy, so I will hold off on that. I will simply say that the vertical thinking path is about examining what we are doing with our thinking when constructing such analogies and understanding why that's important. It is in this living movement of our own activity that we will find the reality of the ever-present Self-"I" we normally only intuit in the dimmest possible way and try to crystallize in planar concepts. To be clear, I am not criticizing your attempt to express the Self intuition in this analogy. I know that you are perfectly aware of the limitations of any such conceptual expressions. Rather, my argument has been that such attempts to grasp the Self intuition work as a counter-force to discovering the living movement of the Self who is grasping, unless the content is de-prioritized and the activity which resulted in the content is examined. The focus on the content positively keeps the veil lifted over our soul-dynamics which obscure the living movement. But I will leave it there for now.

It seems you have started delving into Steiner, so let me ask directly - what do you make of his spiritual scientific research so far in this lecture, which you quoted in the first comment? Is it coherent and an objectively reasonable way to understand the means through which spiritual activity structures the phenomenal world? Since you are also a scientific thinker, I am curious what your thoughts are on his discussion of the holistic human organism.

[Lou Gold]

Aloha Everyone,

I have a general question about what I perceive as an "accent bias" >>> Why do we assume in our models that every soul is on an achievement trip seeking greater awareness? Is it not possible that some more evolved souls are descending or grounding (in Bodhisattva-like fashion) in order to help reduce the suffering or to reveal in an embodied state the way to go? As some may know, I've been critical of the individual achievement orientation. For example, I do not believe that Jesus arrived to work His way toward the Father but, rather, that He arrived as a gift from the Father to perform, through a very powerful story, a Love and Forgiveness that birthed into human consciousness the embodied example of a shared Divinity between the Whole and its parts.

Right, I don't assume that, and many traditions, Western and Eastern, believed that their major figures were incarnations of the Divine or of highly evolved spiritual beings in order to facilitate the human evolution. Such were Christ in Christianity, Krishna and other avatars in Vedic tradition, Padmasambhava and many other tulkus-bodhisattvas in Tibetan Buddhism and so on. So, there are souls on the ascending path, that's us, unless some of us believe that they are bodhisattvas or avatars , and there are higher-order beings descending to our realm to help us. They do it out of love and compassion and understanding that there is no such thing as a separate individual achievement, because there is no such thing as a separate individual consciousness on the grand scale of things, and yet there are still individual minds as semi-autonomous spiritual activities, and there are still our individual achievements as small contributions of each individual to the overall evolution of the global consciousness. So, I don't see any contradiction between the individual achievements and the collective evolution, they work together in coalescence.

[Lou Gold]

Aloha Everyone,

I have a general question about what I perceive as an "accent bias" >>> Why do we assume in our models that every soul is on an achievement trip seeking greater awareness? Is it not possible that some more evolved souls are descending or grounding (in Bodhisattva-like fashion) in order to help reduce the suffering or to reveal in an embodied state the way to go? As some may know, I've been critical of the individual achievement orientation. For example, I do not believe that Jesus arrived to work His way toward the Father but, rather, that He arrived as a gift from the Father to perform, through a very powerful story, a Love and Forgiveness that birthed into human consciousness the embodied example of a shared Divinity between the Whole and its parts.

Right, I don't assume that, and many traditions, Western and Eastern, believed that their major figures were incarnations of the Divine or of highly evolved spiritual beings in order to facilitate the human evolution. Such were Christ in Christianity, Krishna and other avatars in Vedic tradition, Padmasambhava and many other tulkus-bodhisattvas in Tibetan Buddhism and so on. So, there are souls on the ascending path, that's us, unless some of us believe that they are bodhisattvas or avatars , and there are higher-order beings descending to our realm to help us. They do it out of love and compassion and understanding that there is no such thing as a separate individual achievement, because there is no such thing as a separate individual consciousness on the grand scale of things, and yet there are still individual minds as semi-autonomous spiritual activities, and there are still our individual achievements as small contributions of each individual to the overall evolution of the global consciousness. So, I don't see any contradiction between the individual achievements and the collective evolution, they work together in coalescence.

OK Eugene. As in the past, we seem to be affirming that we are on the same page.

You say: "I don't see any contradiction between the individual achievements and the collective evolution, they work together in coalescence." Similarly, I don't see any contradiction between form/emptiness or thinking/no thinking. Rather, I see a both/and working together coalescence. The simple resolution of the dialectical or oppositional demand of an idealist fundamentalism is the realization that in an infinitely entangled reality is that it does not exist except in relativist but temporary locations.

[Stranger]

It seems you have started delving into Steiner, so let me ask directly - what do you make of his spiritual scientific research so far in this lecture, which you quoted in the first comment? Is it coherent and an objectively reasonable way to understand the means through which spiritual activity structures the phenomenal world? Since you are also a scientific thinker, I am curious what your thoughts are on his discussion of the holistic human organism.

Ha, asking such question was a good way to make me read it

[AshvinP]

Aloha Everyone,

I have a general question about what I perceive as an "accent bias" >>> Why do we assume in our models that every soul is on an achievement trip seeking greater awareness? Is it not possible that some more evolved souls are descending or grounding (in Bodhisattva-like fashion) in order to help reduce the suffering or to reveal in an embodied state the way to go? As some may know, I've been critical of the individual achievement orientation. For example, I do not believe that Jesus arrived to work His way toward the Father but, rather, that He arrived as a gift from the Father to perform, through a very powerful story, a Love and Forgiveness that birthed into human consciousness the embodied example of a shared Divinity between the Whole and its parts.

Lou,

I'm not sure who you perceive expressed this bias, but let me share a quote from Steiner:

Let us think for a moment of what was said at the beginning of the lecture, namely that there are ascending and descending forces — forces that are ascending to the Zodiac and forces that are descending from the Zodiac. How has man reached a position which makes it possible for something to stream from within him? What has happened to man that enables something to stream forth from him? He has reached this position because his ego, after long, long preparation, has steadily unfolded and developed. This I, this ego, has been in course of preparation for long, long ages. For truth to tell, the object of all existence in the Saturn-condition, the Sun-condition and the Moon-condition when the sheaths into which the I was to be received were produced — was to prepare for the I. In those earlier conditions, other beings created the dwelling-place for the I. Now, on the earth, the dwelling-place was at the stage where the I could take root in man and from then onwards the I began to work upon the outer, bodily sheaths from within. The fact that the ego is able to work from within has also brought about a surplus, a surplus of ascending forces; there was no longer a state of parity. Before the ego was able to work within man, the ascending forces gradually evolved until the middle point had been reached; and when the, ego actually entered into man the ascending and the descending forces had reached the stage where they were in ‘balance.’ At the entry of the ego, the ascending and the descending forces were in balance and it rests with man to turn the scales in the right direction. That is why the occultists have called the constellation which was entered at the time when the ego itself began to operate, the ‘Balance’ (Libra). Up to the end of Virgo, preparation was being made for the deeds of the ego in our planetary evolution, but the ego had not itself begun to work. When Libra had been reached the ego itself began to participate and this was a most important moment in its evolution.

Just think what it means that the ego had reached this stage of evolution:

From then on it was possible for the ego to participate in the work of the forces belonging to the Zodiac, to reach into the Zodiac. The more the ego strives for the highest point of its evolution, the more it works into the Zodiac. There is nothing that happens in the innermost core of the ego that has not its consequences right up to the very Zodiac. And inasmuch as man with his ego lays the foundations for his development to Atma, or spirit-man, he develops, stage by stage, the forces which enable him to work upwards into the sphere of Libra, the Balance, in the Zodiac. He will attain full power over Libra in the Zodiac when his ego has developed to Atma, or spirit-man. He will then be a being from whom something streams out, who has passed out of the sphere of Time into the sphere of Duration, of Eternity.

Such is the path of man. But there are other beings whose lowest sphere of operation is man's highest.

So I would say it is a bit presumptuous, to say the least, if we assume the average human today is at a stage where he will be of better service to the Cosmic whole through sacrificing greater awareness for 'grounding' rather than growing in Self-consciousness, i.e. 'individual achievement'? One must have something of spiritual value before it can be sacrificed for lower waves of development.

[Lou Gold]

Aloha Everyone,

I have a general question about what I perceive as an "accent bias" >>> Why do we assume in our models that every soul is on an achievement trip seeking greater awareness? Is it not possible that some more evolved souls are descending or grounding (in Bodhisattva-like fashion) in order to help reduce the suffering or to reveal in an embodied state the way to go? As some may know, I've been critical of the individual achievement orientation. For example, I do not believe that Jesus arrived to work His way toward the Father but, rather, that He arrived as a gift from the Father to perform, through a very powerful story, a Love and Forgiveness that birthed into human consciousness the embodied example of a shared Divinity between the Whole and its parts.

Lou,

I'm not sure who you perceive expressed this bias, but let me share a quote from Steiner:

Let us think for a moment of what was said at the beginning of the lecture, namely that there are ascending and descending forces — forces that are ascending to the Zodiac and forces that are descending from the Zodiac. How has man reached a position which makes it possible for something to stream from within him? What has happened to man that enables something to stream forth from him? He has reached this position because his ego, after long, long preparation, has steadily unfolded and developed. This I, this ego, has been in course of preparation for long, long ages. For truth to tell, the object of all existence in the Saturn-condition, the Sun-condition and the Moon-condition when the sheaths into which the I was to be received were produced — was to prepare for the I. In those earlier conditions, other beings created the dwelling-place for the I. Now, on the earth, the dwelling-place was at the stage where the I could take root in man and from then onwards the I began to work upon the outer, bodily sheaths from within. The fact that the ego is able to work from within has also brought about a surplus, a surplus of ascending forces; there was no longer a state of parity. Before the ego was able to work within man, the ascending forces gradually evolved until the middle point had been reached; and when the, ego actually entered into man the ascending and the descending forces had reached the stage where they were in ‘balance.’ At the entry of the ego, the ascending and the descending forces were in balance and it rests with man to turn the scales in the right direction. That is why the occultists have called the constellation which was entered at the time when the ego itself began to operate, the ‘Balance’ (Libra). Up to the end of Virgo, preparation was being made for the deeds of the ego in our planetary evolution, but the ego had not itself begun to work. When Libra had been reached the ego itself began to participate and this was a most important moment in its evolution.

Just think what it means that the ego had reached this stage of evolution:

From then on it was possible for the ego to participate in the work of the forces belonging to the Zodiac, to reach into the Zodiac. The more the ego strives for the highest point of its evolution, the more it works into the Zodiac. There is nothing that happens in the innermost core of the ego that has not its consequences right up to the very Zodiac. And inasmuch as man with his ego lays the foundations for his development to Atma, or spirit-man, he develops, stage by stage, the forces which enable him to work upwards into the sphere of Libra, the Balance, in the Zodiac. He will attain full power over Libra in the Zodiac when his ego has developed to Atma, or spirit-man. He will then be a being from whom something streams out, who has passed out of the sphere of Time into the sphere of Duration, of Eternity.

Such is the path of man. But there are other beings whose lowest sphere of operation is man's highest.

So I would say it is a bit presumptuous, to say the least, if we assume the average human today is at a stage where he will be of better service to the Cosmic whole through sacrificing greater awareness for 'grounding' rather than growing in Self-consciousness, i.e. 'individual achievement'? One must have something of spiritual value before it can be sacrificed for lower waves of development.

Yikes, Ashvin. I never suggested "the average human today is at a stage where he will be of better service to the Cosmic whole through sacrificing greater awareness for 'grounding' rather than growing in Self-consciousness, i.e. 'individual achievement'?" so I'm happy to see your question mark. I say that the ego is a tool and the wise carpenter knows when to use a hammer AND when not. Thus, it's a dynamic in-process both/and and not an either/or to which it can be reduced. My answer would be, as in nature in general, varietal diversity of grounding-and-growing options are the insurance that something will work under new conditions. Surely there will not be one way for all individuals and locations.. This does not mean that anything goes. It means that relativity and diversity are essential to the process of systemic trial-and-error. Personally, I think it would be most presumptuous to assert knowledge of what's best for the Cosmic Whole and it is similarly presumptuous that humans will be the species to discover it. My prejudice is that our Anthropocene track record into current industrial civilization and its discontents is not great. On balance, I think the Age of Conquest is ending and I don't know the new particulars or how they might, for better or worse, fall in place. The faith I hold firm just tells me that Love and Compassion are becoming ever more important.

[Federica]

I can give a geometrical-metaphorical analogy here to illustrate. Imagine a 2D space and a nested circular structure similar to Cleric's picture in here, but in 2D for simplicity. There is definitely a deep structure there converging to the Core. That's the metaphor of our evolutionary-metamorphic introspective process of developing into the core of our being until we discover the Self at the very center of it. But then it turns out that the whole 2D space and all the circles of the depth-structure have never been apart from the same Self and they are in the very essence, in their existential core, nothing else than the same Self. All the circles are equally the same Self, and not that there is "more" Self in the center of the structure compared to the periphery. In other words, the Self is like the very 2D space where the whole structure has always been contained, and the very "substance" of which all circles are made. So, from the perspective of the Self, all is equally contained in it in a "flat" way. At the same time, the depth-structure always remains intact, it is still there with all its circles and with the evolutionary curvature toward the center. And so, both "deep" and "flat" perspectives are simultaneously valid: the structure lies "flat" on the 2D space, yet it simultaneously has "depth" in the direction of the movement toward the center.

So, it's only when we travel along the curvature towards the center of the structure, we think that there is only a dimension of depth (because that's where the curvature is dragging us), we think that we are approaching the Self from the peripheral regions where we cannot find the presence of the Self, and so we think that there is "more" Self in the center, and "less" or "no" Self at the peripheries. And that is perfectly fine at that particular stage of the soul's evolutionary process. But once we discover the Self in the core of the structure, we also discover that the same Self has been all the time equally everywhere all along our travel through the structure, we just could not see and recognize it until we got closer to the core and discovered it there. In other words, the Self is equally everywhere but it is veiled from our soul's perception when we are at the periphery circles of the evolution, and it can only be discovered/unveiled once we sufficiently evolve introspectively closer to the center.

Now, to clarify, please don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing against the point Cleric made in the "deep MAL" topic, he was totally right about criticizing some modern nondualists who ignore the depth structures of the spiritual universe and think that they can "shortcut" the whole developmental vertical path and just "jump" into the state of the "nondual soup", where, as they often say "there is nobody there and nothing else to do". No, that's cheating, and as a result, can be detrimental for the soul's growth.

Eugene,

Thank you, that's helpful, and no worries, I am not getting it as an argument against Cleric's Deep MAL, at all.

If I'm getting your 2D geometry right: rather than a flat MAL strewn with single bubbles (as in Bernardo’s drawings), your geometry looks like a simplified Deep MAL, simply collapsed onto a plane. This preserves the potential for convergence to center of all possible individual points, or viewpoints, out of an infinity of differentiated individual peripheral positions. So in this sense, it seems to me consistent with Deep MAL. But then when Oneness - or Self - is represented in this geometry by the plane on which the concentric circles exist, there's a question: what does this really, concretely, mean to the singular viewpoints - to us now, for example - to be encompassed within that Self, Oneness, or Plane? Beyond the abstract geometrical statement that we are all, knowingly or unknowingly, included within the plane, what concrete difference does it make to the quality, the twists, and the turns of our progression?


To be clear, I am not arguing that it doesn't make any difference. Rather, I’m connecting to what Cleric said, that it’s a vague, potentailly misleading characterization. As such, it does the job of appeasing any pre-existing yearning for unity, agreement, expansiveness, belonging, love. But knowing that our humble quest has to be, and is, for naked Truth - simply that, whatever it might be - it becomes clear that such Plane of Oneness (if I may name your visualization this way) manifests, by its existing, a superimposed concept stacked on Deep MAL to remedy any pre-existing needs, needs brought possibly unprocessed to the spiritual inquiry, and by its features - as pervasive Plane of Oneness on which we evolve while moving to center - it manifests a vagueness or 'joker' quality, described above by Cleric as “wildcard”, where the ”place of the human being within this differentiated oneness” remains highly ambiguous, and actually undifferentiated. Again: what is the concrete difference the Plane of Oneness makes for us? Such abstract, ‘placeholder’ quality introduced by the Plane of Oneness appears even more clearly when we notice that it forces you to create a narrative to make it fit, to make it sink into the geometry, or to make the geometry fit into it:

we think that we are approaching the Self from the peripheral regions where we cannot find the presence of the Self, and so we think that there is "more" Self in the center, and "less" or "no" Self at the peripheries

I would say, it does not have to be like that, this is a narrative. One could still be not very advanced in the direction of the center, and convinced of the illusion of multiplicity, of the unitary character of reality, even from within the ‘peripheral regions’ of MAL.


My point here is that there's a big risk: to wholeheartedly dive into the inquiry, bringing to it something that has more to do with our pre-existing views and wishes, than with the peeks of Truth that we glance at from the path. To dispel this risky mixture of what we pre-hold in ourselves and what we see as elements of Truth, it would be necessary to be able to overview ourselves as strangers - I find your nickname excellent omen in this sense!
What would be necessary is the ability to objectively grasp from above all our subconscious biases, and preferences, and beliefs, and all the deep reasons why we hold them. But this is simply not immediately possible, as we start off. It's too big of an ask. And that’s why Steiner gifted us PoF. To guide us, as long as we can connect with our available reservoir of humility and trust. PoF's essential function is to safely direct the eagerness, or even fury, of our spiritual quest, as we first approach it along the direction that Steiner is highlighting for us - I'm using present continuous on purpose here. In other words, PoF is here to take our hand and show us, little step by little step, a very safe marked path along which we trust that we are protected from falling prey to our own biases, mistaking them for bricks of Truth, until one day we will be enabled to draw our own path, way down the road.


I hope it’s clear that I see myself as a complete beginner in this endeavor. The only experience that allows me to contrast and express the above, is that of my ongoing struggles - as facilitated by Cleric and Ashvin - with my own biases and pre-existing views and wishes. Cleric and Ashvin are making possible for me, and for anyone else listening, the experience of progressively separating, bit by bit, those personal views and wishes we all hold without exception, from the quest, from the path, so that we can find, or recognize, our way ahead in ourselves (living) along the marked path, and still not in our biases, that we constantly try to check in as hand luggage on the journey. I am constantly doing it, Eugene, and it’s a painful but necessary process to see this happening in ourselves. Every post written to you here is highly useful to me as well, helping me see how I am constantly attracted back to my own biases, and through them, to Maya. I constantly need to be nudged away from a part of myself that I try to check in, over and over again.
All this points to the crucial importance of looking at the all-encompassing Plane of Oneness, remaining open to the question: what if this enormous thing I am merged with is too big to be checked in as hand luggage on the path? Could it be that it won’t properly fit into the cabin, but rather obscure the view and spoil the whole journey?


And this is not to discard or disrespect Oneness, but only to open for it to progressively form afresh, as we go forward, out of Truth, rather than out of our initial expectations. In this pursuit, a sort of experiment is coming to mind. Instead of prefiguring Oneness as a majestic gate that we will encounter on our way towards the center, and enter in blissful expansion of consciousness at some point, can we for a moment imagine to attract that gate towards us, all the way to us, and consider Oneness as a given - simply as our monism. Let's provisionally say that the Plane of Oneness is simply our manifested, present sense that reality is unitary. It’s our rejection of naive realism. Let’s take it for our common acknowledgement: "we are in Oneness". Now, from here, when we look ahead, what do we see? How do we proceed? What is the mystery, what are the motives, what do we do next?

[AshvinP]

Aloha Everyone,

I have a general question about what I perceive as an "accent bias" >>> Why do we assume in our models that every soul is on an achievement trip seeking greater awareness? Is it not possible that some more evolved souls are descending or grounding (in Bodhisattva-like fashion) in order to help reduce the suffering or to reveal in an embodied state the way to go? As some may know, I've been critical of the individual achievement orientation. For example, I do not believe that Jesus arrived to work His way toward the Father but, rather, that He arrived as a gift from the Father to perform, through a very powerful story, a Love and Forgiveness that birthed into human consciousness the embodied example of a shared Divinity between the Whole and its parts.

Lou,

I'm not sure who you perceive expressed this bias, but let me share a quote from Steiner:

Let us think for a moment of what was said at the beginning of the lecture, namely that there are ascending and descending forces — forces that are ascending to the Zodiac and forces that are descending from the Zodiac. How has man reached a position which makes it possible for something to stream from within him? What has happened to man that enables something to stream forth from him? He has reached this position because his ego, after long, long preparation, has steadily unfolded and developed. This I, this ego, has been in course of preparation for long, long ages. For truth to tell, the object of all existence in the Saturn-condition, the Sun-condition and the Moon-condition when the sheaths into which the I was to be received were produced — was to prepare for the I. In those earlier conditions, other beings created the dwelling-place for the I. Now, on the earth, the dwelling-place was at the stage where the I could take root in man and from then onwards the I began to work upon the outer, bodily sheaths from within. The fact that the ego is able to work from within has also brought about a surplus, a surplus of ascending forces; there was no longer a state of parity. Before the ego was able to work within man, the ascending forces gradually evolved until the middle point had been reached; and when the, ego actually entered into man the ascending and the descending forces had reached the stage where they were in ‘balance.’ At the entry of the ego, the ascending and the descending forces were in balance and it rests with man to turn the scales in the right direction. That is why the occultists have called the constellation which was entered at the time when the ego itself began to operate, the ‘Balance’ (Libra). Up to the end of Virgo, preparation was being made for the deeds of the ego in our planetary evolution, but the ego had not itself begun to work. When Libra had been reached the ego itself began to participate and this was a most important moment in its evolution.

Just think what it means that the ego had reached this stage of evolution:

From then on it was possible for the ego to participate in the work of the forces belonging to the Zodiac, to reach into the Zodiac. The more the ego strives for the highest point of its evolution, the more it works into the Zodiac. There is nothing that happens in the innermost core of the ego that has not its consequences right up to the very Zodiac. And inasmuch as man with his ego lays the foundations for his development to Atma, or spirit-man, he develops, stage by stage, the forces which enable him to work upwards into the sphere of Libra, the Balance, in the Zodiac. He will attain full power over Libra in the Zodiac when his ego has developed to Atma, or spirit-man. He will then be a being from whom something streams out, who has passed out of the sphere of Time into the sphere of Duration, of Eternity.

Such is the path of man. But there are other beings whose lowest sphere of operation is man's highest.

So I would say it is a bit presumptuous, to say the least, if we assume the average human today is at a stage where he will be of better service to the Cosmic whole through sacrificing greater awareness for 'grounding' rather than growing in Self-consciousness, i.e. 'individual achievement'? One must have something of spiritual value before it can be sacrificed for lower waves of development.

Yikes, Ashvin. I never suggested "the average human today is at a stage where he will be of better service to the Cosmic whole through sacrificing greater awareness for 'grounding' rather than growing in Self-consciousness, i.e. 'individual achievement'?" so I'm happy to see your question mark. I say that the ego is a tool and the wise carpenter knows when to use a hammer AND when not. Thus, it's a dynamic in-process both/and and not an either/or to which it can be reduced. My answer would be, as in nature in general, varietal diversity of grounding-and-growing options are the insurance that something will work under new conditions. Surely there will not be one way for all individuals and locations.. This does not mean that anything goes. It means that relativity and diversity are essential to the process of systemic trial-and-error. Personally, I think it would be most presumptuous to assert knowledge of what's best for the Cosmic Whole and it is similarly presumptuous that humans will be the species to discover it. My prejudice is that our Anthropocene track record into current industrial civilization and its discontents is not great. On balance, I think the Age of Conquest is ending and I don't know the new particulars or how they might, for better or worse, fall in place. The faith I hold firm just tells me that Love and Compassion are becoming ever more important.

Lou,

This is why I made the earlier comment about the inversion which takes place when we get into the living thinking movement behind the fininshed results of our concepts - we discern it is presumptuous, reflecting over-confidence in the reality of our own concepts, to indefinitely keep 'open' the both/and approach which alleviates us of taking over concrete responsibility for the Earth's evolution into the Cosmic Whole, by building the living (detailed) bridge between the phenomenal appearances and the spiritual realities. If we are not the species to do it, then who?

I also think Federica's critique of Eugene's model above is valid in this case as well. We aren't living in a reality where vague generalities which indefinitely hold open both/and are going to motivate concrete spiritual direction. We are here on this forum trying to chart out a path into the depths of human existence as natural and cultural (spiritually active) beings. How do we do that more and more effectively? Only through the perfection of our thinking instrument i.e. living Self-consciousness. All genuine deeds of Love towards others presuppose such a growing Self-consciousness. An animal, child, etc. without that capacity simply cannot act of out anything but unconscious impulses and narrow self-interest.

You asked specifically about a 'bias' with regards to our aiming towards self-awareness, and referenced great spiritual beings as examples of those who sacrifice such aims to lift others up, presumaby because you feel it would be a good approach for some individual humans today to be sacrificial in the same way. I quoted a passage which contextualizes those sacrifices within a holistic spiritual evolution of the Cosmos. You didn't address that context in your reply. Without that context, we can easily mistake something we are doing out of comfort and convenience for "sacrifice".

[Lou Gold]

Lou,

I'm not sure who you perceive expressed this bias, but let me share a quote from Steiner:





So I would say it is a bit presumptuous, to say the least, if we assume the average human today is at a stage where he will be of better service to the Cosmic whole through sacrificing greater awareness for 'grounding' rather than growing in Self-consciousness, i.e. 'individual achievement'? One must have something of spiritual value before it can be sacrificed for lower waves of development.

Yikes, Ashvin. I never suggested "the average human today is at a stage where he will be of better service to the Cosmic whole through sacrificing greater awareness for 'grounding' rather than growing in Self-consciousness, i.e. 'individual achievement'?" so I'm happy to see your question mark. I say that the ego is a tool and the wise carpenter knows when to use a hammer AND when not. Thus, it's a dynamic in-process both/and and not an either/or to which it can be reduced. My answer would be, as in nature in general, varietal diversity of grounding-and-growing options are the insurance that something will work under new conditions. Surely there will not be one way for all individuals and locations.. This does not mean that anything goes. It means that relativity and diversity are essential to the process of systemic trial-and-error. Personally, I think it would be most presumptuous to assert knowledge of what's best for the Cosmic Whole and it is similarly presumptuous that humans will be the species to discover it. My prejudice is that our Anthropocene track record into current industrial civilization and its discontents is not great. On balance, I think the Age of Conquest is ending and I don't know the new particulars or how they might, for better or worse, fall in place. The faith I hold firm just tells me that Love and Compassion are becoming ever more important.

Lou,

This is why I made the earlier comment about the inversion which takes place when we get into the living thinking movement behind the fininshed results of our concepts - we discern it is presumptuous, reflecting over-confidence in the reality of our own concepts, to indefinitely keep 'open' the both/and approach which alleviates us of taking over concrete responsibility for the Earth's evolution into the Cosmic Whole, by building the living (detailed) bridge between the phenomenal appearances and the spiritual realities. If we are not the species to do it, then who?

I also think Federica's critique of Eugene's model above is valid in this case as well. We aren't living in a reality where vague generalities which indefinitely hold open both/and are going to motivate concrete spiritual direction. We are here on this forum trying to chart out a path into the depths of human existence as natural and cultural (spiritually active) beings. How do we do that more and more effectively? Only through the perfection of our thinking instrument i.e. living Self-consciousness. All genuine deeds of Love towards others presuppose such a growing Self-consciousness. An animal, child, etc. without that capacity simply cannot act of out anything but unconscious impulses and narrow self-interest.

You asked specifically about a 'bias' with regards to our aiming towards self-awareness, and referenced great spiritual beings as examples of those who sacrifice such aims to lift others up, presumaby because you feel it would be a good approach for some individual humans today to be sacrificial in the same way. I quoted a passage which contextualizes those sacrifices within a holistic spiritual evolution of the Cosmos. You didn't address that context in your reply. Without that context, we can easily mistake something we are doing out of comfort and convenience for "sacrifice".

I was very careful to state my question in "we" terms and was not setting up a "who" accusation calling for prosecution and defense. Let's not go there. In general I perceive a modern achievement biased culture that often carries an incorrect implication that love is somehow earned where more achievement should be more rewarded and separates rather than unites.

About up and down, I agree with your signature quote: "We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience." -Teilhard de Chardin Some may have this experience to learn or attain awareness; some may do so to help reduce suffering. Many go up, down, laterally and bounce around a bit. I was seeing all as part of a both/and systemic or holistic diversity.

[Anthony66]

“A time certainly is approaching when people will start to yearn for insight into the full nature of reality. Today there is a fierce opposition to a holistic view of things, not only in theoretical things, but also in ordinary life.”

Rudolf Steiner "Universal Spirituality and Human Physicality”

The "holistic view of things" is that there is only one "full nature of reality" that manifests the world of a vast variety of ideas and forms through a variety of aspects and faculties (Thinking, Willing, Feeling, Perceiving, Imagining etc) enacted through spiritual activity of a vast variety of spiritual beings in the universe, yet all of those beings, aspects, ideas and forms are never apart from the "full nature of reality" and essentially never anything else than the "full nature of reality". When we only pay attention to the variety and neglect the unity, we perceive ourselves as a separate self interacting with the world outside our self, we perceive the world as a variety of objects and beings separate from ourselves, and this is the foundation of our dualistic perception of the world catalyzing the development of the ego and a sense of separation and alienation. The only way to overcome such alienation is to raise ourselves to the holistic view and realize the underlying unity of the "full nature of reality" without negating or neglecting the variety. All spiritual traditions of the past, both Western and Eastern, pointed to the attainment of such holistic view, not just as an intellectual understanding, but as an actual spiritual experience and actual state of consciousness. Attaining such holistic state also constitutes a core component of Steiner's SS.

“Lastly, at the fourth stage of knowledge Inspiration also ceases. Of the elements customarily observed in everyday knowledge, the ego alone remains to be considered. The attainment of this stage by the occult student is marked by a definite inner experience. This experience manifests itself in the feeling that he no longer stands outside the things and occurrences that he recognizes, but is himself within them. Images are not the object, but merely its imprint. Also, inspiration does not yield up the object itself, but only tells about it. But what now lives in the soul is in reality the object itself. The ego has streamed forth over all beings; it has merged with them. The actual living of things within the soul is Intuition. When it is said of Intuition that “through it man creeps into all things,” this is literally true. — In ordinary life man has only one “intuition” — namely, of the ego itself, for the ego can in no way be perceived from without; it can only be experienced in the inner life. A simple consideration will make this fact clear. It is a consideration that has not been applied by psychologists with sufficient exactitude. Unimpressive as it may appear to one with full understanding, it is of the most far-reaching significance. It is as follows. A thing in the outer world can be called by all men by the self-same name. A table can be spoken of by all as a “table”; a tulip by all as a “tulip.” Mr. Miller can be addressed by all as “Mr. Miller.” But there is one word that each can apply only to himself. This is the word “I.” No other person can call me “I.” To anyone else I am a “you.” In the same way everyone else is a “you” to me. Only I can say “I” to myself. This is because each man lives, not outside, but within the “I.” In the same way, in intuitive cognition, one lives in all things. The perception of the ego is the prototype of all intuitive cognition. Thus to enter into all things, one must first step outside oneself. One must become “selfless” in order to become blended with the “self,” the “ego” of another being.”

Rudolph Steiner. The Stages of Higher Knowledge

Today I was listening to lecture given by Steiner in 1910 on the paths and goals of the spiritual human. He contrasted the mystical and occult paths to knowledge, and described the former as compressing the "I" in one's own interior and the latter as pouring the I over the external world, at one with the external world. What is experienced is the same thing. Mysticism and occultism go in opposite directions but lead to the same goal.