Insight into the full nature of reality

Any topics primarily focused on metaphysics can be discussed here, in a generally casual way, where conversations may take unexpected turns.
Stranger
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Insight into the full nature of reality

Post by Stranger »

“A time certainly is approaching when people will start to yearn for insight into the full nature of reality. Today there is a fierce opposition to a holistic view of things, not only in theoretical things, but also in ordinary life.”

Rudolf Steiner "Universal Spirituality and Human Physicality”
The "holistic view of things" is that there is only one "full nature of reality" that manifests the world of a vast variety of ideas and forms through a variety of aspects and faculties (Thinking, Willing, Feeling, Perceiving, Imagining etc) enacted through spiritual activity of a vast variety of spiritual beings in the universe, yet all of those beings, aspects, ideas and forms are never apart from the "full nature of reality" and essentially never anything else than the "full nature of reality". When we only pay attention to the variety and neglect the unity, we perceive ourselves as a separate self interacting with the world outside our self, we perceive the world as a variety of objects and beings separate from ourselves, and this is the foundation of our dualistic perception of the world catalyzing the development of the ego and a sense of separation and alienation. The only way to overcome such alienation is to raise ourselves to the holistic view and realize the underlying unity of the "full nature of reality" without negating or neglecting the variety. All spiritual traditions of the past, both Western and Eastern, pointed to the attainment of such holistic view, not just as an intellectual understanding, but as an actual spiritual experience and actual state of consciousness. Attaining such holistic state also constitutes a core component of Steiner's SS.
“Lastly, at the fourth stage of knowledge Inspiration also ceases. Of the elements customarily observed in everyday knowledge, the ego alone remains to be considered. The attainment of this stage by the occult student is marked by a definite inner experience. This experience manifests itself in the feeling that he no longer stands outside the things and occurrences that he recognizes, but is himself within them. Images are not the object, but merely its imprint. Also, inspiration does not yield up the object itself, but only tells about it. But what now lives in the soul is in reality the object itself. The ego has streamed forth over all beings; it has merged with them. The actual living of things within the soul is Intuition. When it is said of Intuition that “through it man creeps into all things,” this is literally true. — In ordinary life man has only one “intuition” — namely, of the ego itself, for the ego can in no way be perceived from without; it can only be experienced in the inner life. A simple consideration will make this fact clear. It is a consideration that has not been applied by psychologists with sufficient exactitude. Unimpressive as it may appear to one with full understanding, it is of the most far-reaching significance. It is as follows. A thing in the outer world can be called by all men by the self-same name. A table can be spoken of by all as a “table”; a tulip by all as a “tulip.” Mr. Miller can be addressed by all as “Mr. Miller.” But there is one word that each can apply only to himself. This is the word “I.” No other person can call me “I.” To anyone else I am a “you.” In the same way everyone else is a “you” to me. Only I can say “I” to myself. This is because each man lives, not outside, but within the “I.” In the same way, in intuitive cognition, one lives in all things. The perception of the ego is the prototype of all intuitive cognition. Thus to enter into all things, one must first step outside oneself. One must become “selfless” in order to become blended with the “self,” the “ego” of another being.”

Rudolph Steiner. The Stages of Higher Knowledge
Last edited by Stranger on Tue Nov 08, 2022 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"You are not a drop in the ocean, you are the ocean in a drop" Rumi
Stranger
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Re: Insight into the full nature of reality

Post by Stranger »

"I and my Father are one" John 10:30
"I pray that they will all be one, just as you and I are one—as you are in me, Father, and I am in you. And may they be in us so that the world will believe you sent me." John 17:21
"Jesus said, "I am the light that is over all things. I am all: from me all came forth, and to me all attained. Split a piece of wood; I am there. Lift up the stone, and you will find me there." The Gospel of Thomas
"The eye through which I see God is the same eye through which God sees me; my eye and God's eye are one eye, one seeing, one knowing, one love.”
"There is something in the soul that is so akin to God that it is one with Him... It has nothing in common with anything created"
"All things inside God are equal, and they are God Himself"
"God loves nothing else than Himself"
"The beginning, in which God created heaven and earth, is the primary simple now of eternity ... exactly the same 'now', where Himself exists eternally"
"God expects but one thing of you, and that is that you should come out of yourself in so far as you are a created being made and let God be God in you"
"The knower and the known are one. Simple people imagine that they should see God as if he stood there and they here. This is not so. God and I, we are one in knowledge"

Meister Eckhart
"You are not a drop in the ocean, you are the ocean in a drop" Rumi
Stranger
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Re: Insight into the full nature of reality

Post by Stranger »

The One rules all. Nothing has authority over it.
It is the God.
It is Father of everything,
Holy One
The invisible one over everything.
It is uncontaminated
Pure light no eye can bear to look within.
The One is the Invisible Spirit.
It is not right to think of it as a God or as like God.
It is more than just God.
Nothing is above it.
Nothing rules it.
Since everything exists within it
It does not exist within anything.
Since it is not dependent on anything
It is eternal.
It is absolutely complete and so needs nothing.
It is utterly perfect Light.
The One is without boundaries
Nothing exists outside of it to border it
The One cannot be investigated
Nothing exists apart from it to investigate it
The One cannot be measured
Nothing exists external to it to measure it
The One cannot be seen
For no one can envision it
The One is eternal
For it exists forever
The One is inconceivable
For no one can comprehend it
The One is indescribable
For no one can put any words to it.

Apocryphon of John
All is Brahman, nothing exists but Brahman, and the world as Brahman is real.

Ramana Maharshi
"You are not a drop in the ocean, you are the ocean in a drop" Rumi
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Lou Gold
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Re: Insight into the full nature of reality

Post by Lou Gold »

(50) Jesus said, "If they say to you, 'Where did you come from?', say to them, 'We came
from the light, the place where the light came into being on its own accord and
established itself and became manifest through their image.' If they say to you, 'Is it
you?', say, 'We are its children, we are the elect of the living father.' If they ask you,
'What is the sign of your father in you?', say to them, 'It is movement and repose.'"
~Gospel of Thomas
Be calm - Be clear - See the faults - See the suffering - Give your love
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AshvinP
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Location: USA

Re: Insight into the full nature of reality

Post by AshvinP »

Stranger wrote: Tue Nov 08, 2022 5:34 pm
“A time certainly is approaching when people will start to yearn for insight into the full nature of reality. Today there is a fierce opposition to a holistic view of things, not only in theoretical things, but also in ordinary life.”

Rudolf Steiner "Universal Spirituality and Human Physicality”
The "holistic view of things" is that there is only one "full nature of reality" that manifests the world of a vast variety of ideas and forms through a variety of aspects and faculties (Thinking, Willing, Feeling, Perceiving, Imagining etc) enacted through spiritual activity of a vast variety of spiritual beings in the universe, yet all of those beings, aspects, ideas and forms are never apart from the "full nature of reality" and essentially never anything else than the "full nature of reality". When we only pay attention to the variety and neglect the unity, we perceive ourselves as a separate self interacting with the world outside our self, we perceive the world as a variety of objects and beings separate from ourselves, and this is the foundation of our dualistic perception of the world catalyzing the development of the ego and a sense of separation and alienation. The only way to overcome such alienation is to raise ourselves to the holistic view and realize the underlying unity of the "full nature of reality" without negating or neglecting the variety. All spiritual traditions of the past, both Western and Eastern, pointed to the attainment of such holistic view, not just as an intellectual understanding, but as an actual spiritual experience and actual state of consciousness. Attaining such holistic state also constitutes a core component of Steiner's SS.
“Lastly, at the fourth stage of knowledge Inspiration also ceases. Of the elements customarily observed in everyday knowledge, the ego alone remains to be considered. The attainment of this stage by the occult student is marked by a definite inner experience. This experience manifests itself in the feeling that he no longer stands outside the things and occurrences that he recognizes, but is himself within them. Images are not the object, but merely its imprint. Also, inspiration does not yield up the object itself, but only tells about it. But what now lives in the soul is in reality the object itself. The ego has streamed forth over all beings; it has merged with them. The actual living of things within the soul is Intuition. When it is said of Intuition that “through it man creeps into all things,” this is literally true. — In ordinary life man has only one “intuition” — namely, of the ego itself, for the ego can in no way be perceived from without; it can only be experienced in the inner life. A simple consideration will make this fact clear. It is a consideration that has not been applied by psychologists with sufficient exactitude. Unimpressive as it may appear to one with full understanding, it is of the most far-reaching significance. It is as follows. A thing in the outer world can be called by all men by the self-same name. A table can be spoken of by all as a “table”; a tulip by all as a “tulip.” Mr. Miller can be addressed by all as “Mr. Miller.” But there is one word that each can apply only to himself. This is the word “I.” No other person can call me “I.” To anyone else I am a “you.” In the same way everyone else is a “you” to me. Only I can say “I” to myself. This is because each man lives, not outside, but within the “I.” In the same way, in intuitive cognition, one lives in all things. The perception of the ego is the prototype of all intuitive cognition. Thus to enter into all things, one must first step outside oneself. One must become “selfless” in order to become blended with the “self,” the “ego” of another being.”

Rudolph Steiner. The Stages of Higher Knowledge

We should also be clear that the path to living Unity is through more consciousness of diversity, except inward rather than only outward diversity. Modern man confronts an amazing complex of outward phenomena, but feels his inner life to be more or less dim, homegenous, and uniform. He may come up with abstract categories to label aspects of his inner life, but he doesn't really sense the subtle differentiations inwardly. His willing, feeling, thinking activity is all stirred together into a stew which seems to function harmoniously, only because he is not conscious of all the inner gradations of activity and conflicting currents. The task now is to use the impulse of self-conscious thinking to inwardly differentiate these various currents and begin to work on them, to purify and harmonize them. Until we learn to differentiate various currents of his soul life, we cannot come back to a living Unity of body-soul-spirit. That is why the task is rightly called a spiritual science - without a living, first-person knowledge of the differentiated inner phenomena, the forces, substances, structures of one's evolving organism, there is nothing to unify.

First the human individual and humanity as a whole needs to confront the fact that it knows almost none of the relevant phenomena which need to be studied, i.e. that it is just as the very beginning of developing a holistic science. Even with respect to outer phenomena, we only dream of knowing the relevant details, but most of them go completely unnoticed for reasons related to our own myopic soul-tendencies. The world of diversity itself serves a critical purpose if we were only to pay more attention to it, and developing the capacity to pay more attention is itself the critical purpose. Without our lives on the physical plane of diverse phenomena, where we feel ourselves to be separate and isolated "I"-beings, there could not be the development of human Love which is carried back through the higher worlds and results in Freedom. This will be a very gradual process - there are many layers of fractal conditioning, chaotic non-linear inner dynamics relating to our individual, familial, racial, national, cultural, human Karma, which need to be transfigured into more harmonious rhythms through the power of self-consciousness which ascends perpendicular to the normal conceptual plane.

In that sense, Intuitive cognition is an ideal to reach but a far distant one for most people. There are many inner spiritual processes which first need to be unearthed within the realm of our current thinking consciousness and the next realm of Imaginative consciousness. Cleric has written before about the 'One law' of continuity of consciousness, which is very powerful to contemplate. If many people were to suddenly awaken into states of Intuitive cognition through minimal effort in a single lifetime, i.e. without rhythmically ascending the gradient, there would be chaos in their continuity of consciousness. Or, rather, there would be no continuity, since none of their 'previous' states of Be-ing could resonate with the state they awakened into. They would feel as a completely new Godlike being. This can't happen. So those who prematurely strive for Intuitive cognition won't attain it, but could end up retrogressing into far less evolved modes of consciousness. These possibilities should be taken very seriously (and Steiner cautions about it throughout his work).
"Most people would sooner regard themselves as a piece of lava in the moon than as an 'I'"
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Federica
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Re: Insight into the full nature of reality

Post by Federica »

Stranger wrote: Tue Nov 08, 2022 5:34 pm
“A time certainly is approaching when people will start to yearn for insight into the full nature of reality. Today there is a fierce opposition to a holistic view of things, not only in theoretical things, but also in ordinary life.”

Rudolf Steiner "Universal Spirituality and Human Physicality”
The "holistic view of things" is that there is only one "full nature of reality" that manifests the world of a vast variety of ideas and forms through a variety of aspects and faculties (Thinking, Willing, Feeling, Perceiving, Imagining etc) enacted through spiritual activity of a vast variety of spiritual beings in the universe, yet all of those beings, aspects, ideas and forms are never apart from the "full nature of reality" and essentially never anything else than the "full nature of reality". When we only pay attention to the variety and neglect the unity, we perceive ourselves as a separate self interacting with the world outside our self, we perceive the world as a variety of objects and beings separate from ourselves, and this is the foundation of our dualistic perception of the world catalyzing the development of the ego and a sense of separation and alienation. The only way to overcome such alienation is to raise ourselves to the holistic view and realize the underlying unity of the "full nature of reality" without negating or neglecting the variety. All spiritual traditions of the past, both Western and Eastern, pointed to the attainment of such holistic view, not just as an intellectual understanding, but as an actual spiritual experience and actual state of consciousness. Attaining such holistic state also constitutes a core component of Steiner's SS.
“Lastly, at the fourth stage of knowledge Inspiration also ceases. Of the elements customarily observed in everyday knowledge, the ego alone remains to be considered. The attainment of this stage by the occult student is marked by a definite inner experience. This experience manifests itself in the feeling that he no longer stands outside the things and occurrences that he recognizes, but is himself within them. Images are not the object, but merely its imprint. Also, inspiration does not yield up the object itself, but only tells about it. But what now lives in the soul is in reality the object itself. The ego has streamed forth over all beings; it has merged with them. The actual living of things within the soul is Intuition. When it is said of Intuition that “through it man creeps into all things,” this is literally true. — In ordinary life man has only one “intuition” — namely, of the ego itself, for the ego can in no way be perceived from without; it can only be experienced in the inner life. A simple consideration will make this fact clear. It is a consideration that has not been applied by psychologists with sufficient exactitude. Unimpressive as it may appear to one with full understanding, it is of the most far-reaching significance. It is as follows. A thing in the outer world can be called by all men by the self-same name. A table can be spoken of by all as a “table”; a tulip by all as a “tulip.” Mr. Miller can be addressed by all as “Mr. Miller.” But there is one word that each can apply only to himself. This is the word “I.” No other person can call me “I.” To anyone else I am a “you.” In the same way everyone else is a “you” to me. Only I can say “I” to myself. This is because each man lives, not outside, but within the “I.” In the same way, in intuitive cognition, one lives in all things. The perception of the ego is the prototype of all intuitive cognition. Thus to enter into all things, one must first step outside oneself. One must become “selfless” in order to become blended with the “self,” the “ego” of another being.”

Rudolph Steiner. The Stages of Higher Knowledge

Yes, and then the question becomes: How do we stop paying attention only to the variety, and how do we stop neglecting the unity? You say: the way to do it is by “raising ourselves to the holistic view and realizing the underlying unity of the full nature of reality". Yes, but how? What is the starting point of that path in Steiner? In my understanding - I hope I will be corrected as necessary - this in Steiner has to happen first with reasoned, down-to-earth consideration of the given. Perception. PoF. That is the mandatory absolute first step on the path to realizing the non-separateness of reality, with us included. We have to first come to realize the exact role of spiritual activity (which in this context only means thinking activity in the most basic and literal sense) in the coming about of our perception of the world. We have to want to be diligent, zealous, persevering, and eager students first, and do the homework. Our thinking is "our actual spiritual experience". It's very different from every other faculty. It is a little flap of divine protruding into our standard world, even when naively perceived. So we have to understand what thinking exactly does, in the coming about of our experience, by carefully analyzing the given, and how we cognize it. Quite a methodical, reflected, down-to-earth task.
The specific "fourth step of knowledge" referred above is way way ahead on the path...
In this epoch we have to be fighters for the spirit: man must realise what his powers can give way to, unless they are kept constantly under control for the conquest of the spiritual world. In this fifth epoch, man is entitled to his freedom to the highest degree! He has to go through that.
Stranger
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Re: Insight into the full nature of reality

Post by Stranger »

AshvinP wrote: Tue Nov 08, 2022 7:45 pm In that sense, Intuitive cognition is an ideal to reach but a far distant one for most people. There are many inner spiritual processes which first need to be unearthed within the realm of our current thinking consciousness and the next realm of Imaginative consciousness. Cleric has written before about the 'One law' of continuity of consciousness, which is very powerful to contemplate. If many people were to suddenly awaken into states of Intuitive cognition through minimal effort in a single lifetime, i.e. without rhythmically ascending the gradient, there would be chaos in their continuity of consciousness. Or, rather, there would be no continuity, since none of their 'previous' states of Be-ing could resonate with the state they awakened into. They would feel as a completely new Godlike being. This can't happen. So those who prematurely strive for Intuitive cognition won't attain it, but could end up retrogressing into far less evolved modes of consciousness. These possibilities should be taken very seriously (and Steiner cautions about it throughout his work).
That is true, any attempt to artificially "jump" to the full realization of unity prematurely can indeed be detrimental. And human mind alone cannot attain such realization without the help of the Divine grace.
In is only by the Divine grace that the enlightened come to know the Truth of Non-duality, realizing the unity of all things.

Avadhuta Gita of Dattatreya
"You are not a drop in the ocean, you are the ocean in a drop" Rumi
Stranger
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Re: Insight into the full nature of reality

Post by Stranger »

Federica wrote: Tue Nov 08, 2022 7:54 pm Yes, and then the question becomes: How do we stop paying attention only to the variety, and how do we stop neglecting the unity? You say: the way to do it is by “raising ourselves to the holistic view and realizing the underlying unity of the full nature of reality". Yes, but how? What is the starting point of that path in Steiner? In my understanding - I hope I will be corrected as necessary - this in Steiner has to happen first with reasoned, down-to-earth consideration of the given. Perception. PoF. That is the mandatory absolute first step on the path to realizing the non-separateness of reality, with us included. We have to first come to realize the exact role of spiritual activity (which in this context only means thinking activity in the most basic and literal sense) in the coming about of our perception of the world. We have to want to be diligent, zealous, persevering, and eager students first, and do the homework. Our thinking is "our actual spiritual experience". It's very different from every other faculty. It is a little flap of divine protruding into our standard world, even when naively perceived. So we have to understand what thinking exactly does, in the coming about of our experience, by carefully analyzing the given, and how we cognize it. Quite a methodical, reflected, down-to-earth task.
The specific "fourth step of knowledge" referred above is way way ahead on the path...
Yes, you are right, it's a distant goal of a long path of spiritual practice for most of us, and it won't happen overnight. I'm not someone who can claim such attainment and who is authorized to teach it or give any practical advice here. But it is important to always keep the goal in mind when we practice in order to keep the path straight in the right direction. So, highlighting this goal was the purpose of starting this topic.
Last edited by Stranger on Tue Nov 08, 2022 8:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"You are not a drop in the ocean, you are the ocean in a drop" Rumi
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Federica
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Re: Insight into the full nature of reality

Post by Federica »

Stranger wrote: Tue Nov 08, 2022 8:22 pm
Yes, you are right, it's a distant goal of a long path of spiritual practice for most of us, and it won't happen overnight. I'm not someone who can claim such attainment and who is authorized to teach it or give any practical advice here. But it is important to always keep the goal in mind when we practice in order to keep the path straight in the right direction. So, highlighting this goal was the purpose of starting this topic.
Ok, I was thinking that perhaps you were starting this topic as a reflection on duality and oneness, as per yesterday's conversation. And I was not aware of Ashvin's reply when I posted the above, otherwise I would probably not have posted it.

For my part, I see the goal slightly differently. A description of my disposition would be that I am not really keeping in mind a goal of realizing oneness, rather, I am eager to discover the truth, whatever this is. I don't want to set expectations for the color of oneness.
Last edited by Federica on Tue Nov 08, 2022 8:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
In this epoch we have to be fighters for the spirit: man must realise what his powers can give way to, unless they are kept constantly under control for the conquest of the spiritual world. In this fifth epoch, man is entitled to his freedom to the highest degree! He has to go through that.
Stranger
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Re: Insight into the full nature of reality

Post by Stranger »

There is one point I want to add. In our ordinary mode of the perception of reality we do not experience it directly, but we filter it and overlay it with a mind-created mental layer where we interpret reality as "me" in the center of perception perceiving the world "outside of me" consisting of a variety of separate objects and beings. This happens in us usually without our full conscious realization of such filtering, but essentially, it is a layer of abstract thinking that we overlay as a filter upon the reality. Deconstructing this layer is an essential work that needs to be done along the path to unity. Once this layer is removed, it will be easier and natural for us to see the reality in its natural unity. I'm not saying that such deconstruction is the ONLY thing we need to do, because in addition to that, we also need to develop the spiritual organs of higher cognition that can perceive and experience the reality as unity. Yet, such deconstruction of the abstract dualistic layer is one of the essential steps to go through, and it requires a meticulous work to understand how this dualistic filtering works in our habitual state of human mind, and then meticulous work to deconstruct it and change these habits and patterns of perception that grew deep into the fabric of our minds because we practiced them over our whole live, as well as all past lives.
Last edited by Stranger on Tue Nov 08, 2022 8:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"You are not a drop in the ocean, you are the ocean in a drop" Rumi
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