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Re: Idealist vision for 2050?
Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2021 5:48 pm
by Lou Gold
In terms of the Kogi vision, they left the fight and concentrated on cultivating a good life with good leadership committed to maintaining the sacred earthly balance. I have no need to improve on that beyond praying for it and practicing its spread.
BTW, in my view of the shamanic approach, a vision is not a program. It is a seed that is planted and grows from within.
Re: Idealist vision for 2050?
Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2021 6:29 pm
by AshvinP
Lou Gold wrote: ↑Sat Jan 30, 2021 5:36 pm
In my dream I saw a vast plain with many people milling about in ordinary ways on a flat with no vegetation or critters, more like a giant plaza. Suddenly, a sinkhole appeared, expanding and swallowing the center. The people retreated farther until all were equidistant from the old center and standing holding hands in awe of the wonder and terror of what had happened.
Jungian psychology suggests that dreams are in part attempts by supra-conscious intelligences of the objective psyche to alter the structure of sub-conscious 'complexes' that the ego may be relying on. They are stories woven by those higher intelligences and can help relativize the power of the sub-personalities, placing them in a wider frame of meaning, which then allows the waking ego consciousness to relate to them in more creative and adaptive ways.
I have no idea if or how that applies to your specific dream above, but just something to keep in mind going forward. Especially if you are now having 'special' dreams more often when you had few and infrequent dreams before. Although I would say the images you mention bring to my mind exactly that process of a reorientation of the ego and subconscious personalities. Especially that last part of "
awe of the wonder and terror of what had happened".
Re: Idealist vision for 2050?
Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2021 6:55 pm
by Cleric K
Thank you, Lou
Re: Idealist vision for 2050?
Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2021 7:35 pm
by Lou Gold
AshvinP wrote: ↑Sat Jan 30, 2021 6:29 pm
Lou Gold wrote: ↑Sat Jan 30, 2021 5:36 pm
In my dream I saw a vast plain with many people milling about in ordinary ways on a flat with no vegetation or critters, more like a giant plaza. Suddenly, a sinkhole appeared, expanding and swallowing the center. The people retreated farther until all were equidistant from the old center and standing holding hands in awe of the wonder and terror of what had happened.
Jungian psychology suggests that dreams are in part attempts by supra-conscious intelligences of the objective psyche to alter the structure of sub-conscious 'complexes' that the ego may be relying on. They are stories woven by those higher intelligences and can help relativize the power of the sub-personalities, placing them in a wider frame of meaning, which then allows the waking ego consciousness to relate to them in more creative and adaptive ways.
I have no idea if or how that applies to your specific dream above, but just something to keep in mind going forward. Especially if you are now having 'special' dreams more often when you had few and infrequent dreams before. Although I would say the images you mention bring to my mind exactly that process of a reorientation of the ego and subconscious personalities. Especially that last part of "
awe of the wonder and terror of what had happened".
With great respect for Jung, whose works I've grokked but not read, I personally do not privilege the psychological/mental approach. Rather than analyzing, I favor just holding the dream and allowing/witnessing the changes wrought in me. I'm still unpacking the life-changing dream I had 39 years ago and now, after 24 years and thousands of doses of Daime (sacramental ayahuasca), my visions and dreams are few but potent. The last one from Daime arrived several years ago and said, "Be calm - Be clear - See the faults - See the suffering - Give your love." Yes, this is an "inside job" and I continue to show up and do my work/play as best as I can.
BTW, what did strike me strongly from the dream ending was that everyone, without exception, was holding hands and no one knew what, if anything, was in the hole.
Re: Idealist vision for 2050?
Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2021 7:37 pm
by Lou Gold
Cleric K wrote: ↑Sat Jan 30, 2021 6:55 pm
Thank you, Lou
Thank you for asking.
Re: Idealist vision for 2050?
Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2021 12:40 am
by Martin_
Lou Gold wrote: ↑Sat Jan 30, 2021 5:36 pm
What would I teach the children? I would teach them to hold hands and pay attention. That's my vision.
I can't object to either of these; they are both really good. Only observe that we're not really moving towards more hand-holding at the moment
Re: Idealist vision for 2050?
Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2021 2:41 am
by SanteriSatama
Lou Gold wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 7:16 pm
So, let me ask: If, as an Idealist, you were planting a different dream in a child, what would it be?
Please respond as if talking to that child rather than (for example) saying that you'd send the child to a Waldorf School. How would you express the dreaming seed to the child? What vision would you plant?
Kids, go "OK Boomer", they/we deserve that. And thanks for the GameStop lulz so far, keep' em coming! If revolution is not fun, it's not worth it.
PS: No worries, it's all OK.
Re: Idealist vision for 2050?
Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2021 2:52 am
by SanteriSatama
Lou Gold wrote: ↑Sat Jan 30, 2021 5:36 pm
In my dream I saw a vast plain with many people milling about in ordinary ways on a flat with no vegetation or critters, more like a giant plaza. Suddenly, a sinkhole appeared, expanding and swallowing the center. The people retreated farther until all were equidistant from the old center and standing holding hands in awe of the wonder and terror of what had happened.
What would I teach the children? I would teach them to hold hands and pay attention. That's my vision.
I like this dream. I can imagine this dream is happening now, growing.
Re: Idealist vision for 2050?
Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2021 3:15 am
by Lou Gold
Me too, Santeri. It seemed archetypal. Now, I'm just witnessing rather than interpreting or analyzing. Standing under it, watching it unpack, letting it unravel me, my alter and my altar, it seems like a choiceless-choice.
Re: Idealist vision for 2050?
Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2021 3:17 am
by Lou Gold
Martin_ wrote: ↑Sun Jan 31, 2021 12:40 am
Lou Gold wrote: ↑Sat Jan 30, 2021 5:36 pm
What would I teach the children? I would teach them to hold hands and pay attention. That's my vision.
I can't object to either of these; they are both really good. Only observe that we're not really moving towards more hand-holding at the moment
We are in process, for sure.