Güney27 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 24, 2022 5:28 pm
Hello Federica,
Thanks for the motivating words.
I've begun to understand that there is an inner dimension to all of the things we are discussing here.
Before, I put a lot of emphasis on understanding everything intellectually, but I've realized that this doesn't do me much good.
I've started reading TSH and am struggling through part one right now. I have the feeling that Klocek's book WILL help me to get on the path of inner transformation because it is written in a very practical way.
I have tried hard to understand that, for example, our mind is a sense organ for spiritual beings, but now I understand that there is no point intellectually in trying to understand spiritual truths, so I will do my best, with good will and discipline, to commit practice-oriented inner work.
Maybe it's the only way for me to understand spiritual truths.
I chose the subject of Islam because, for whatever reason, I am drawn to the oriental wisdom of Islamic masters.
And here too, Islam also has an esoteric/practice dimension, which is the path to understanding the truths of the scriptures.
I am most concerned with the thought of whether Islam is also compatible with Steiner's teachings and whether it is also a suitable path for initiation.
somehow I find Steiner's very scientific portrayal of spiritual truth too monotonous, and am looking for a more poetic/artistic portrayal.
Kind regards
Hi Güney,
Thanks for elaborating! I believe I understand your position well. In one way or another, we are continually torn between opposites - as in Steiner’s passage Ashvin shared - and one common way it happens is when we are torn between exercising focus, thinking effort, and some relief from that effort.
In me, for example, this wish tends to express itself as ‘nature knows best, I should let it play out, let's not interfere’. If I think calmly about it - to say it with Ashvin, dispassionately - I can see this attitude is indeed very convenient, and not so responsible. It’s a perfect politically correct excuse not to take much responsibility on myself. Quite a subtle one, nice try Federica
Another example, in Lou and Eugene - as I see it - the wish is expressed as an impulse to join the Oneness of all reality and rest in its compassionate embrace, that welcomes all imaginable paths. It’s also a great excuse, because it sounds so generous, peaceful, and democratic.
And maybe for you it takes the form of a wish to release the cognitive demand that Steiner, Klocek, in a word present-day esoterism, ask us to sustain? Maybe it comes as the wish to take a break from the effort of concentration? Indeed, concentration is very monotonous, like a narrow tunnel to pass, that only later we are told it will open to the most graceful and luminous variety of Ideas, including infinite expressions of poetic and artistic beauty. But for the time being it remains, well, a monotonous, rather uninviting tunnel to dive into…
As Klocek says at the very beginning of the Handbook - I did not get it at first reading, now I do - we are today, beginning of XXI century, at the teen age of human evolution, and in fact we do behave like obstinate and ingrate teenagers. Either we refuse to recognize the love and care we received, and have no qualms ignoring the ounce of spirit-starter we were gifted, hijacking the faculties we were granted, to satisfy our fancies, technologies or other (materialists) or - like Lou, Eugene, me, maybe you too - we would like to revert back to ‘childhood’, to find some rest and comfort, either in oneness, or in nature, or in beauty and poetry. In any case, we would love to release the tension a little, letting go of the difficult responsibility of using our faculties at the level of their current potential. It's easier to take a break, while others are in charge. But the thing is, we are big now, we have received strong enough thinking arms and legs, and we hardly have any reasonable excuse nowadays to hide under the quilt and remain cozy and warm, while mom and dad go to work, so to say.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think we can’t be inspired and enjoy the beautiful and profound verses of the Sufi poets, just as I'm not going to paint all my walls in bright red, to make sure I'm diligent and fight my individual preferences. No, let’s keep them white, and let’s read the Sufi masters too, if we find them moving and inspiring. I would think this is absolutely compatible with Anthroposophy. While they bring attention to something else, I believe Ashvin and Cleric imply that. Indeed,
everything should be compatible with Anthroposophy, since it’s living experience of everything (not theory of everything, but experience). So, in the same way as there is no harm in pulling out an old photo album, looking at old family pics from our childhood, so it’s fine to appreciate Sufism, or Greek philosophy, or other ancient civilizations. It’s almost us when we were younger, and it’s fascinating to realize how we grew up from there.
However, as I understand it, the dynamic of evolution is like a sort of relay race. At any given time, there is only one racer, and it would not make any sense to have more than one baton either. The baton represents not the content of a tradition, but the faculty the tradition allowed humanity to develop, just to connect this illustration to the previous posts. So there's one baton at every given time. Nonetheless, the big picture is that the team is one, and all racers are fundamental, and all of them - all of us - hold the baton in one phase or another of evolution, and all phases are equally crucial. And because time should not be considered so linearly and strictly, all the various phases of the progression (race) integrate into each other and are all necessary - ooops, here comes the will-be time-neutral word Ashvin mentioned
Still it’s clear that we should harmonize and unite with the present racer. We are teenagers, almost adults now, and this means our efforts should be willed, conscious, thought-out, based on sound rationality, lawful science, spiritual science. So we have to unite with
present-day spiritual expression, no matter if with Steiner, Klocek or someone else, it’s not a matter of names, it’s a matter of living up to the type of expression we have been set up to accomplish at our current level of evolution, because we have received the means to that end. What Ashvin and Cleric are pointing to seems very logic to me. The Sufis, the Rishis, the ancient civilizations were completely legitimate in expressing their spirituality in different forms, more dreamy, collective, and poetic. They were living at an earlier stage of humanity in which those paths were the available ones. Those paths were necessary and instrumental to all further progression. We can admire them and be grateful for how well they did their part when the baton was in their hands. But if we ourselves do the exact same thing today, it actually means behaving like teenagers who rest in bed and play little kids, stealing their comfy indolence, while there are so many urgent matters to tackle out there.
In short, we are all tempted, and it’s difficult to remain consistent. However, when you decide to read TSH, for example, when you remain open minded and trust it WILL help you ignite inner transformation, even though now you are struggling - we are struggling - I would say this is a sign that both forces are playing: we want some respite sometimes, but we also want to contribute our due part, without stealing anything. Which force will be stronger?