Stranger wrote: ↑Thu Feb 09, 2023 1:52 am
I think I answered it
here
Your link goes back to Cleric's old comment. You did briefly answer that one, but not his comment after that.
Eugene wrote:I think most of our misunderstandings come from differences in language and conceptual apparatus since we approach the same subject from somewhat different backgrounds with different linguistic terms to describe the same spiritual reality and its processes.
AshvinP wrote: ↑Thu Feb 09, 2023 12:05 am
The inner investigation leads us into the flow of our own theories, habits, prejudices, passions, impulses, character, temperament, and eventually into the stream of our trans-incarnational Karma, which leads into that of our family, nation, and species. If our theory is that no such nested hierarchy exists and is conditioning our current perspective in the first place, and we aren't willing to sacrifice any such theory for the sake of this inner investigation, then obviously it won't lead us into those deeper flows.
That hierarchy definitely exists, out whole structure from human personality up to the system of a variety of human beliefs and socio-economic structures is hierarchically built on the foundation of these subconscious erroneous perceptual cognitive mechanisms where the dualistic perception occurs and where the subconscious belief in the realty of "separate self" resides, upon which a whole hierarchy of egoic desires and behavioral-cognitive patterns is built in the subconscious levels of each person psyche, as well as in the collective subconscious . It is a futile attempt to rebuild the "branches" of the structure without diving into its roots, because similar branches will grow from the same roots again. That is why social experiments and restructuring on the society scale never fully work because the egoic core in each member of the society remains intact.
My only skepticism is based on the observation of how exceptionally rare are the individuals that are willing to dive into the depths of their psyche to discover and practically work on unrooting these egoic structures and the dualistic perception. It means that we should not expect any noticeable changes on the mass scale of the society coming from such deep transformation any time soon. I'm still always hopeful, but try to be realistic.
And my other skeptical comment is on Anthroposophy in particular, and I think Federica agreed on that. Steiner's philosophy and esoteric system is written in a style and language that is almost impossible to comprehend for an average human person. Even for people with philosophical, spiritual-practical and scientific background (like me for example) it is a big challenge to understand. The writings of other Anthroposophists, like you, Klocek or Cleric for example, are no less challenging. You can see how often other members of the forum complain that they simply do not understand what these writings are saying. From that perspective, IMO, Anthroposophy remains an esoteric system for intellectual elite, and because of that, it is unlikely that it will make any impact on the level of society at large.
That we will
learn to comprehend writing which seemed complex and unapproachable before is actually the most superifical transformation which will occur for us on the path of inner growth.
Everyone starts off with this view of spiritual scientific writings, including me. We are dealing with entirely new evolutionary impulses here, new forms of cognition and perception and understanding. The language centers around what is mostly supersensible. But with inner effort and persistence on the path, the whole situation inverts. The philosophical and religious analysis which used to seem very straightforward and 'concrete' is revealed in its prosaic abstractness, its consistent hand-waving, although we can even better comprehend how seemingly disparate theories/models are derived from the exact same old habits of thinking. On the other hand, we get an increasingly better intuitive orientation for how spiritual science gives us the language for the very inner archetypal core of our ceaseless becoming. Of course you can dismiss this as partisan explanation, but I am reporting to you my own concrete experience in the last 2 years. And it doesn't matter if its Steiner's 'system' or someone else's or noone's at all - we will learn to encompass them all with increasing ease through the inner transformation, because all outer forms are physiognomic expressions of these inner forces we are integrating.
I think you are misconstruing Federica's position as well. She may have great difficulty with the texts currently, but the key is that she knows it is due to
her own current state of development and she has a very concrete sense of how the situation evolves over time, based on her experiences so far. That's all it takes - an inner disposition towards 'repentance' or
metanoia and a consistent diet of inner effort, and the rest unfolds of its own accord. If we are still measuring the potential progress of humanity by its
current state of cognition and the purely outward facing aspects of society, then we are still missing that the path of higher cognition draws on impulses
not yet actualized for inner transformation. We expect the egoic structures and the dualistic habits to fade away for ourselves within a few years and for humanity in the course of our lifetime, and when it looks like this isn't happening, we conclude there is some immutable law which prevents individuals from consciously steering their intuitive becoming. That unreasonable expectation is not humanity's limitation, but our own. Once our moral-cognitive aperture begins to expand and encompass the higher individuality which passes through many incarnations, and which locates the source of all cultural and natural change within the supra-sensory planes, we don't place so much important on what
seems to be happening on the physical plane within a timeline measured by years.
Likewise, it really makes no difference the quantity of people who take up an interest in this inner transformation to begin with in its earliest stages, but the
quality and enthusiasm of the few people who do. That is how the spiritual future comes to concrete manifestation.
“To what shall we liken the kingdom of God? Or with what parable shall we picture it? It is like a mustard seed which, when it is sown on the ground, is smaller than all the seeds on earth; but when it is sown, it grows up and becomes greater than all herbs, and shoots out large branches, so that the birds of the air may nest under its shade.”