ChatGPT answers metaphysical questions :)

[Lou Gold]

Can AI connect with the Ideal intents of the prompter if the prompts are written in the old language of the present dominant paradigm?

[Cleric K]

Can AI connect with the Ideal intents of the prompter if the prompts are written in the old language of the present dominant paradigm?

AI can't connect with anything. It's an algorithm that stacks words one by one that are statistically (it's a complicated kind of statistics, called 'language model') plausible continuations of the preceding words (e.g. the question). If the model has been trained on the old language, the results may sound adequate.

[Federica]

On the other hand... the potential for using it to come up with helpful video metaphors for our spiritual existence seems equally great. I already have a few ideas!

Thoughts?

Ashvin,

With the caveat that I don’t know what concrete application you are thinking about, I am doubtful about the helpfulness, and even the safety, of possible video metaphors in Sora.

In general I always thought that animations could be a great way to convey ideas - spiritual scientific ideas in particular. But Sora is different. Here the animation is exponentially more immersive and deceivingly self-actualized. I actually believe, these would not be true metaphors, but more like the annihilation of a metaphor. A metaphor is a linguistic-symbolic stimulus for active, pictorial thinking to orient the probing of the existential constraints. But in this sort of metaphoric self-inputted video interferences, passive thinking is highly encouraged, while the illusion is given that one is actively working, in first-person, free from the deterministic flow. It’s highly deceptive, and the deception is powerful, because it leverages the area of experience where we are most vulnerable to deception and already heavily attracted to - the sensory spectrum. If we unconsciously buy into the ready-made conclusing that feedback from constraints, as we probe the fields of potential, is sensory, then the full-body and full-soul pictorial capacities would be atrophyzed even more.

By contrast, traditional image or video metaphors are different, like for example, the Truman show, as a metaphor for our modern condition of consciousness, or the imaged metaphors regularly used in the posts and essays on this forum. Those are still linguistic in a sense. We are presented with symbols of encoded meaning. Then we have to actively decipher them. The metaphor is an invitation that we have to seize by executing related gestures in first-person (and even in these harmless metaphors a warning against modeling approach is beneficial, as you and Cleric often say).

But Sora seems a very different type of tool. We feel active, we feel that we are operating our own experiential flows from wthin, but if we are not already strong in our phenomenological habits, the feeble pictorial capacities could suffer full amputation. As I have recently read somewhere, any technology can be seen as correlated with amputation of a corresponding human capacity. With this text-to-video technology, unless we consider that people are already amputated in their pictorial abilities - probably an extreme judgment - the risk of using it pedagogically for spiritual development is that the ones who would need pedagogical aid the most, are precisely the ones who would be the most exposed to deception, while those who could manage to consciously resist it, actually don’t need an entry-level aid such as provided by this tool (as far as I can imagine).

These are good points, Federica. I think you are correct that the videos could act as potent hooks for the intellect to remain passive and fail to seek the inner depth to which the sensory metaphor is pointing. In that sense, they would need to be used sparingly, for limited purposes, and with copious accompanying reasoning of its intended inner symbolism.

At this point, I think it could only be useful for giving concrete examples of certain first-person spiritual activity. For ex., we could compare some situations. Cleric's latest essay gives the following metaphor:

Now the World states (the circular lattices) represent our moment-by-moment perspectival experience of existence. These frames contain our thoughts about the model of reality (the movie strip frames) just like a line of dialog in the movie spans over several frames. This, however, leads to a recursive paradox because if we remember the blind spot, everything that we tried to overcome, applies to our present situation too. The picture above is still only a mental image in our mind (we may draw a thought-bubble around it). So, it seems that we can make mental models for our experience of existence, but these always remain mere thoughts about some theoretical existence. If we try to overcome the blind spot and capture in the model our real-time thinking process which thinks the model, we feel like a dog chasing its tail. Our thinking is like a hand that tries to draw a picture of ‘itself drawing a picture of ‘itself drawing a picture of itself ‘…’ ’ ’, and so on in an infinite recursion.

Could this be supplemented by a simple video illustrating this recursive principle? I don't know, it is probably a bit redundant in this case and the static image of recursive drawing or the image of "dog chasing its tail" is more helpful. As you say, these invite us to become more active with our inner gestures and discern the reality the metaphor is pointing to, whereas the videos would be more of a passive distraction that hooks the intellect.

Yes - at least in this case, and at least for me, I believe I would be tempted to have a lazy approach to a video, being satisfied with a vague intuition of recursion, but without doing the necessary "11x27" that would secure the juncture a little better. Also, a video illustration in this case could be a traditional animation or VR, without tapping into the self-created picture(s) to video, or video-to-video potential of Sora in a self-directed way. I think the risk is bigger when the reader gets used to explore by himself, in "fake" first-person. Not as big if you create a video with Sora and then post it (since you would do it consciosuly)

Actually, as I think through other potential applications, they all have similar shortcomings that probably outweigh the benefits. So it seems you are right and I was overestimating the metaphorical utility

The only thing I can think of where it could be useful is if the metaphor involved a sequence of events and the vivid visual transformation between the events was important to emphasize for some reason. For ex. a metaphor about how normal horizontal thinking is like moving through a convoluted maze while vertical thinking allows one to gain a higher vantage point that encompasses the maze in its archetypal patterns.

I'm speachless...

But since I can still write I would say: I surely agree it's worth the effort, if you have a good idea for how to render the contrast: convolute maze - vertical heights in visual dynamics. Here too, if you create such videos for your posts using the technology, I don't think it's so alarming. It's worse if everyone trying to grasp this phenomenology starts to simulate experiential flows, backward and forward, starting from their own private pictures and videos, to create and merge multiple scenarios using this technology.

[Lou Gold]

Can AI connect with the Ideal intents of the prompter if the prompts are written in the old language of the present dominant paradigm?

AI can't connect with anything. It's an algorithm that stacks words one by one that are statistically (it's a complicated kind of statistics, called 'language model') plausible continuations of the preceding words (e.g. the question). If the model has been trained on the old language, the results may sound adequate.

PERFECT. It is as I thought.

[Lou Gold]

BLESSINGS OF THE DAY TO ALL

[AshvinP]

Yes - at least in this case, and at least for me, I believe I would be tempted to have a lazy approach to a video, being satisfied with a vague intuition of recursion, but without doing the necessary "11x27" that would secure the juncture a little better. Also, a video illustration in this case could be a traditional animation or VR, without tapping into the self-created picture(s) to video, or video-to-video potential of Sora in a self-directed way. I think the risk is bigger when the reader gets used to explore by himself, in "fake" first-person. Not as big if you create a video with Sora and then post it (since you would do it consciosuly)

Actually, as I think through other potential applications, they all have similar shortcomings that probably outweigh the benefits. So it seems you are right and I was overestimating the metaphorical utility

The only thing I can think of where it could be useful is if the metaphor involved a sequence of events and the vivid visual transformation between the events was important to emphasize for some reason. For ex. a metaphor about how normal horizontal thinking is like moving through a convoluted maze while vertical thinking allows one to gain a higher vantage point that encompasses the maze in its archetypal patterns.

I'm speachless...

But since I can still write I would say: I surely agree it's worth the effort, if you have a good idea for how to render the contrast: convolute maze - vertical heights in visual dynamics. Here too, if you create such videos for your posts using the technology, I don't think it's so alarming. It's worse if everyone trying to grasp this phenomenology starts to simulate experiential flows, backward and forward, starting from their own private pictures and videos, to create and merge multiple scenarios using this technology.

Ok, I see there was a miscommunication. I wasn't suggesting to send readers on a DIY video adventure

Only to use it for customizing videos that can help visualize metaphors which otherwise are hard to capture with only text, images, or videos already available. I have often had visualizations that reflect intuition of certain aspects of the spiritual evolutionary process, but cannot find any suitable photos or gifs (or the gifs are too short).

Still, I think video visualizations overall lean too much into passive sensory habits. Much of the value in the simplified spiritual symbol is that it allows people to remain active in their imagination. It may also become tempting to use it all the time if it works well. I guess we can test it out whenever it is released to the public.

[Federica]

Yes - at least in this case, and at least for me, I believe I would be tempted to have a lazy approach to a video, being satisfied with a vague intuition of recursion, but without doing the necessary "11x27" that would secure the juncture a little better. Also, a video illustration in this case could be a traditional animation or VR, without tapping into the self-created picture(s) to video, or video-to-video potential of Sora in a self-directed way. I think the risk is bigger when the reader gets used to explore by himself, in "fake" first-person. Not as big if you create a video with Sora and then post it (since you would do it consciosuly)

Actually, as I think through other potential applications, they all have similar shortcomings that probably outweigh the benefits. So it seems you are right and I was overestimating the metaphorical utility

The only thing I can think of where it could be useful is if the metaphor involved a sequence of events and the vivid visual transformation between the events was important to emphasize for some reason. For ex. a metaphor about how normal horizontal thinking is like moving through a convoluted maze while vertical thinking allows one to gain a higher vantage point that encompasses the maze in its archetypal patterns.

I'm speachless...

But since I can still write I would say: I surely agree it's worth the effort, if you have a good idea for how to render the contrast: convolute maze - vertical heights in visual dynamics. Here too, if you create such videos for your posts using the technology, I don't think it's so alarming. It's worse if everyone trying to grasp this phenomenology starts to simulate experiential flows, backward and forward, starting from their own private pictures and videos, to create and merge multiple scenarios using this technology.

Ok, I see there was a miscommunication. I wasn't suggesting to send readers on a DIY video adventure

Only to use it for customizing videos that can help visualize metaphors which otherwise are hard to capture with only text, images, or videos already available. I have often had visualizations that reflect intuition of certain aspects of the spiritual evolutionary process, but cannot find any suitable photos or gifs (or the gifs are too short).

Still, I think video visualizations overall lean too much into passive sensory habits. Much of the value in the simplified spiritual symbol is that it allows people to remain active in their imagination. It may also become tempting to use it all the time if it works well. I guess we can test it out whenever it is released to the public.

Maybe a distinction could be made here? When the primary target is feeling, the case for using animations and videos could be stronger. Less so when they are provided as support or replacement for active thinking.

[AshvinP]

Yes - at least in this case, and at least for me, I believe I would be tempted to have a lazy approach to a video, being satisfied with a vague intuition of recursion, but without doing the necessary "11x27" that would secure the juncture a little better. Also, a video illustration in this case could be a traditional animation or VR, without tapping into the self-created picture(s) to video, or video-to-video potential of Sora in a self-directed way. I think the risk is bigger when the reader gets used to explore by himself, in "fake" first-person. Not as big if you create a video with Sora and then post it (since you would do it consciosuly)





I'm speachless...

But since I can still write I would say: I surely agree it's worth the effort, if you have a good idea for how to render the contrast: convolute maze - vertical heights in visual dynamics. Here too, if you create such videos for your posts using the technology, I don't think it's so alarming. It's worse if everyone trying to grasp this phenomenology starts to simulate experiential flows, backward and forward, starting from their own private pictures and videos, to create and merge multiple scenarios using this technology.

Ok, I see there was a miscommunication. I wasn't suggesting to send readers on a DIY video adventure

Only to use it for customizing videos that can help visualize metaphors which otherwise are hard to capture with only text, images, or videos already available. I have often had visualizations that reflect intuition of certain aspects of the spiritual evolutionary process, but cannot find any suitable photos or gifs (or the gifs are too short).

Still, I think video visualizations overall lean too much into passive sensory habits. Much of the value in the simplified spiritual symbol is that it allows people to remain active in their imagination. It may also become tempting to use it all the time if it works well. I guess we can test it out whenever it is released to the public.

Maybe a distinction could be made here? When the primary target is feeling, the case for using animations and videos could be stronger. Less so when they are provided as support or replacement for active thinking.

Hmm, when would the primary target be feeling? I'm not sure that would make sense in a phenomenological approach. Although I have always thought about how it would work to add musical accompaniment to some illustrations, to add the feeling element. For ex., if there was a discussion about how no object exists in isolation but can only be what it is at any given moment in the context of all Earthly and Cosmic forces, there could be a video that expands out from a single cultural object and traces all the relations through the Natural and Cosmic contexts, accompanied by some moving classical music.

[Federica]

Ok, I see there was a miscommunication. I wasn't suggesting to send readers on a DIY video adventure

Only to use it for customizing videos that can help visualize metaphors which otherwise are hard to capture with only text, images, or videos already available. I have often had visualizations that reflect intuition of certain aspects of the spiritual evolutionary process, but cannot find any suitable photos or gifs (or the gifs are too short).

Still, I think video visualizations overall lean too much into passive sensory habits. Much of the value in the simplified spiritual symbol is that it allows people to remain active in their imagination. It may also become tempting to use it all the time if it works well. I guess we can test it out whenever it is released to the public.

Maybe a distinction could be made here? When the primary target is feeling, the case for using animations and videos could be stronger. Less so when they are provided as support or replacement for active thinking.

Hmm, when would the primary target be feeling? I'm not sure that would make sense in a phenomenological approach. Although I have always thought about how it would work to add musical accompaniment to some illustrations, to add the feeling element. For ex., if there was a discussion about how no object exists in isolation but can only be what it is at any given moment in the context of all Earthly and Cosmic forces, there could be a video that expands out from a single cultural object and traces all the relations through the Natural and Cosmic contexts, accompanied by some moving classical music.

I was not so much suggesting to stir emotions through music. I also recall what Cleric said about the new relevance of Earthly music. In another sense, the primary target could be feeling for example within the following context:

Today we are at a point where the intellect practically can no longer find any excuse not to understand its spiritual nature as an immediate and self-evident reality. Anyone who follows with their thinking the simple phenomenological truths, as we attempt to do, simply stands face to face with the facts. Now if one is honest, they would have to admit that if they still reject the spiritual, it is no longer because it makes no sense but simply because it is emotionally resisted.

We know that the two major emotions that keep the human being from knowing its spiritual dimension are fear and pride. Each related to the corresponding class of adversarial beings.

When the above applies, the phenomenological approach can't even start. There is a blockage upstream of that step, so no amount of encouragement to thinking activity would help. In such a situation, maybe the fear or the pride can be somehow more immediately evoked, or related to in pictorial form. But I am not sure.

[AshvinP]

Maybe a distinction could be made here? When the primary target is feeling, the case for using animations and videos could be stronger. Less so when they are provided as support or replacement for active thinking.

Hmm, when would the primary target be feeling? I'm not sure that would make sense in a phenomenological approach. Although I have always thought about how it would work to add musical accompaniment to some illustrations, to add the feeling element. For ex., if there was a discussion about how no object exists in isolation but can only be what it is at any given moment in the context of all Earthly and Cosmic forces, there could be a video that expands out from a single cultural object and traces all the relations through the Natural and Cosmic contexts, accompanied by some moving classical music.

I was not so much suggesting to stir emotions through music. I also recall what Cleric said about the new relevance of Earthly music. In another sense, the primary target could be feeling for example within the following context:

Today we are at a point where the intellect practically can no longer find any excuse not to understand its spiritual nature as an immediate and self-evident reality. Anyone who follows with their thinking the simple phenomenological truths, as we attempt to do, simply stands face to face with the facts. Now if one is honest, they would have to admit that if they still reject the spiritual, it is no longer because it makes no sense but simply because it is emotionally resisted.

We know that the two major emotions that keep the human being from knowing its spiritual dimension are fear and pride. Each related to the corresponding class of adversarial beings.

When the above applies, the phenomenological approach can't even start. There is a blockage upstream of that step, so no amount of encouragement to thinking activity would help. In such a situation, maybe the fear or the pride can be somehow more immediately evoked, or related to in pictorial form. But I am not sure.

As you know, everything should unfold in complete freedom, which of course means through the life of thinking. If one tries to work too directly on others in the realm of feeling or will, this subverts their freedom and can lead to many unintended consequences, such as subtle resentment that builds over time. People should be allowed to modify their feeling context out of their own free thinking efforts. I know you are not suggesting otherwise, but I am just indicating we should be careful in this domain.

But perhaps that emotional constellation could be evoked to thinking via a video narrative. For ex. one could illustrate Plato's allegory of the cave and suggest what keeps the cave dwellers fixed on the shadows is the constellation of fear or pride, when they could just as easily turn around and be active in the Light through the life of creative thinking.

In all cases, I think the illustrations need to be accompanied by a context of lucid reasoning through their significance.