Meditation exercise on "separate me"

Any topics primarily focused on metaphysics can be discussed here, in a generally casual way, where conversations may take unexpected turns.
User avatar
AshvinP
Posts: 5483
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:00 am
Location: USA

Re: Meditation exercise on "separate me"

Post by AshvinP »

Stranger wrote: Thu Feb 16, 2023 6:30 pm
AshvinP wrote: Thu Feb 16, 2023 6:16 pm How do you reconcile the quest for spiritual freedom with this disposition of, "something will probably happen"? Leaving all philosophical and spiritual analysis aside, I wonder what you make of the following quote. Isn't it a self-fulfilling prophecy if everyone were to assume something might happen to us down the road to make our form malleable, instead of engaging the hard inner work to help make it malleable ourselves? (note: this is done in cooperation with the Divine hierarchies, so salvation is a rhythmic polarity of faith/love and works).
My approach is pragmatic: we need to do the work now as much as we can to make it malleable as much as it can be malleable. If/when we find a "hard limit" to the malleability, we will then figure out how to get around this problem when we get to that limit. We do not know at this point if this limit exists or not. And at this point we do not need to worry about it because most of us are quite far from reaching this limit and there is still much work that can and should be done while we are in this human life. We can not predict the future and it is not our business to do that, but our business is to do the job we should do each day one at a time while clearly knowing the direction we are going.
Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. (Matthew 6:34)
My motivation is only this one regardless where and in which form my individuated consciousness activity of the Spirit exists. If it happens to be in human form (as it is now) then be it in human form: "But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." (Matt 6. 33)

Then doesn't it make sense not to assume any limit, inwardly? Meaning, we might outwardly say, 'I don't know if there is a limit and will find out once I reach it', but we are still placing our bets that there is probably a limit and structure our beliefs/practices accordingly. That is reflected in sentiments such as, 'there only so much time and resources to transform our organism in this lifetime', or the belief that we are able to freely choose to abandon the sheaths after death and thereby escape the reincarnation cycle. It is also reflected in the ways you choose to interpret scriptural passages. So the hard limit is alive and kicking, even though you have reasoned out that the pragmatic approach makes the most sense. Why is that?

Remember, we are speaking inner limits of soul-spirit transformation which eventually impress into the bodily organism, so we can't analogize to any phenomenon which appears as purely physical in our familiar experience. For ex. we can't say, 'well I have never tried jumping off a tall building, but I think it's a safe bet that there is a limit which prevents me from flying and I should act accordingly'. Making such a comparison would be reducing the trans-incarnational soul-spirit lawfulness with that of the physical plane, trying to fit the former into concepts derived from the latter.
"A secret law contrives,
To give time symmetry:
There is, within our lives,
An exact mystery."
Stranger
Posts: 760
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2022 2:26 pm

Re: Meditation exercise on "separate me"

Post by Stranger »

AshvinP wrote: Fri Feb 17, 2023 1:28 pm Then doesn't it make sense not to assume any limit, inwardly? Meaning, we might outwardly say, 'I don't know if there is a limit and will find out once I reach it', but we are still placing our bets that there is probably a limit and structure our beliefs/practices accordingly. That is reflected in sentiments such as, 'there only so much time and resources to transform our organism in this lifetime', or the belief that we are able to freely choose to abandon the sheaths after death and thereby escape the reincarnation cycle. It is also reflected in the ways you choose to interpret scriptural passages. So the hard limit is alive and kicking, even though you have reasoned out that the pragmatic approach makes the most sense. Why is that?

Remember, we are speaking inner limits of soul-spirit transformation which eventually impress into the bodily organism, so we can't analogize to any phenomenon which appears as purely physical in our familiar experience. For ex. we can't say, 'well I have never tried jumping off a tall building, but I think it's a safe bet that there is a limit which prevents me from flying and I should act accordingly'. Making such a comparison would be reducing the trans-incarnational soul-spirit lawfulness with that of the physical plane, trying to fit the former into concepts derived from the latter.
No, it's like this: you consistently go along the path following a known direction, but you do not know if there are limits or obstacles or not. Regardless of this uncertainty you keep going until you find an obstacle like a river. When you found this obstacle, you figure out how to get to the other side, and then once you got to the other side, you continue going. Speculating whether there will be an obstacle or not somewhere on the path is only a metaphysical speculation that only distracts you from practically going along the path. You will know it as a fact only when it becomes your actual phenomenological experience.

Christ showed us after his resurrection that it is in principle possible to exist in a spirit-body harmonious form. He showed that if we undertake the path, we will eventually arrive at the destination. We still have no agreement whether the physical form of his resurrected body was the same as our current human form, or if it was substantially different in some way. But we do not need to know it at this point. He showed us the direction to go with his commandments, and the only thing we need to practically do is to follow him and the commandments.
"You are not a drop in the ocean, you are the ocean in a drop" Rumi
mikekatz
Posts: 57
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:45 pm

Re: Meditation exercise on "separate me"

Post by mikekatz »

Hi Eugene

I do this type of exercise often, and I find it works sometimes. Other times, the resistance is too strong. Patience is a virtue, it takes practice.

As a matter of technique, I find it best to start with feelings. Starting any other way, especially with the idea of a separate self, already grounds the exercise within that self. The whole exercise then becomes an analysis rather than an experience. At least that’s the way it is for me, I’m intellectually top-heavy.
Mike
User avatar
Federica
Posts: 1745
Joined: Sat May 14, 2022 2:30 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Meditation exercise on "separate me"

Post by Federica »

mikekatz wrote: Fri Feb 17, 2023 6:07 pm Hi Eugene

I do this type of exercise often, and I find it works sometimes. Other times, the resistance is too strong. Patience is a virtue, it takes practice.

As a matter of technique, I find it best to start with feelings. Starting any other way, especially with the idea of a separate self, already grounds the exercise within that self. The whole exercise then becomes an analysis rather than an experience. At least that’s the way it is for me, I’m intellectually top-heavy.
Mike, could you be more detailed how you go about it when you start with feelings? Could you give an example?
In this epoch we have to be fighters for the spirit: man must realise what his powers can give way to, unless they are kept constantly under control for the conquest of the spiritual world. In this fifth epoch, man is entitled to his freedom to the highest degree! He has to go through that.
Stranger
Posts: 760
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2022 2:26 pm

Re: Meditation exercise on "separate me"

Post by Stranger »

mikekatz wrote: Fri Feb 17, 2023 6:07 pm Hi Eugene

I do this type of exercise often, and I find it works sometimes. Other times, the resistance is too strong. Patience is a virtue, it takes practice.

As a matter of technique, I find it best to start with feelings. Starting any other way, especially with the idea of a separate self, already grounds the exercise within that self. The whole exercise then becomes an analysis rather than an experience. At least that’s the way it is for me, I’m intellectually top-heavy.
This is a good point, Mike, I do that too when the feelings are involved. And thanks for addressing the topic finally after 4 pages of off-topic discussions :)
"You are not a drop in the ocean, you are the ocean in a drop" Rumi
User avatar
AshvinP
Posts: 5483
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:00 am
Location: USA

Re: Meditation exercise on "separate me"

Post by AshvinP »

Stranger wrote: Fri Feb 17, 2023 4:18 pm
AshvinP wrote: Fri Feb 17, 2023 1:28 pm Then doesn't it make sense not to assume any limit, inwardly? Meaning, we might outwardly say, 'I don't know if there is a limit and will find out once I reach it', but we are still placing our bets that there is probably a limit and structure our beliefs/practices accordingly. That is reflected in sentiments such as, 'there only so much time and resources to transform our organism in this lifetime', or the belief that we are able to freely choose to abandon the sheaths after death and thereby escape the reincarnation cycle. It is also reflected in the ways you choose to interpret scriptural passages. So the hard limit is alive and kicking, even though you have reasoned out that the pragmatic approach makes the most sense. Why is that?

Remember, we are speaking inner limits of soul-spirit transformation which eventually impress into the bodily organism, so we can't analogize to any phenomenon which appears as purely physical in our familiar experience. For ex. we can't say, 'well I have never tried jumping off a tall building, but I think it's a safe bet that there is a limit which prevents me from flying and I should act accordingly'. Making such a comparison would be reducing the trans-incarnational soul-spirit lawfulness with that of the physical plane, trying to fit the former into concepts derived from the latter.
No, it's like this: you consistently go along the path following a known direction, but you do not know if there are limits or obstacles or not. Regardless of this uncertainty you keep going until you find an obstacle like a river. When you found this obstacle, you figure out how to get to the other side, and then once you got to the other side, you continue going. Speculating whether there will be an obstacle or not somewhere on the path is only a metaphysical speculation that only distracts you from practically going along the path. You will know it as a fact only when it becomes your actual phenomenological experience.

Christ showed us after his resurrection that it is in principle possible to exist in a spirit-body harmonious form. He showed that if we undertake the path, we will eventually arrive at the destination. We still have no agreement whether the physical form of his resurrected body was the same as our current human form, or if it was substantially different in some way. But we do not need to know it at this point. He showed us the direction to go with his commandments, and the only thing we need to practically do is to follow him and the commandments.

I hear what you're saying, Eugene, but I'm asking why what you're now saying here is so inconsistent with your other beliefs and practices, as recounted on this and other threads? The 'lower ego is an illusion which needs to be discarded for our true Center' approach only makes sense if everything you wrote above is practically discarded and instead a hard limit is assumed. In many other places, you have been 'preaching' the hard limits of corporeal existence and the lack of capacity to spiritualize our sheaths during our incarnations as Christ did. At one point not too long ago, you even questioned whether we can say there is any spiritual evolution taking place on Earth.

So, I wonder whether what you wrote above is actually descending deeper into the soul-life of living thought, feeling and will, or whether it remains at the surface intellectual level and there isn't sufficient motivation to pursue it further than that? If you don't feel like responding, that's fine, but it's at least something to ponder.

PS - I think we agree the resurrected body of Christ was substantially different than our current form, but the question is whether it is lawfully continuous with that form and prefigures what all humans can accomplish with perfecting their organism through the sacrifices of incarnational rhythms. Or, rather, whether it is discontinuous and therefore our greatest hope is either a global-scale miraculous event which will come to our rescue or simply waiting for death and choosing to escape the incarnational rhythm.
"A secret law contrives,
To give time symmetry:
There is, within our lives,
An exact mystery."
Stranger
Posts: 760
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2022 2:26 pm

Re: Meditation exercise on "separate me"

Post by Stranger »

AshvinP wrote: Fri Feb 17, 2023 8:54 pm I hear what you're saying, Eugene, but I'm asking why what you're now saying here is so inconsistent with your other beliefs and practices, as recounted on this and other threads? The 'lower ego is an illusion which needs to be discarded for our true Center' approach only makes sense if everything you wrote above is practically discarded and instead a hard limit is assumed. In many other places, you have been 'preaching' the hard limits of corporeal existence and the lack of capacity to spiritualize our sheaths during our incarnations as Christ did. At one point not too long ago, you even questioned whether we can say there is any spiritual evolution taking place on Earth.

So, I wonder whether what you wrote above is actually descending deeper into the soul-life of living thought, feeling and will, or whether it remains at the surface intellectual level and there isn't sufficient motivation to pursue it further than that? If you don't feel like responding, that's fine, but it's at least something to ponder.

PS - I think we agree the resurrected body of Christ was substantially different than our current form, but the question is whether it is lawfully continuous with that form and prefigures what all humans can accomplish with perfecting their organism through the sacrifices of incarnational rhythms. Or, rather, whether it is discontinuous and therefore our greatest hope is either a global-scale miraculous event which will come to our rescue or simply waiting for death and choosing to escape the incarnational rhythm.
In the previous threads (the "Demiurge" one specifically) I do not remember saying that there is a "hard limit" for the current human form, I only said that the transition to the nondual state is significantly impeded by the karmic/genetic structures of the current human form. While the soul remains in the dualistic state, the human form is actually quite well fit for the soul's evolution, but not anymore after the transition to the nondual state. The idea of incarnation is that it is supposed to help with spiritual development of consciousness, not to impede it. Material form is only a shape that individuated consciousness takes in order to evolve through certain incarnate learning paths and experiences, so the actual goal is not the evolution of humanity, but the evolution of consciousness through specific incarnate forms that facilitate that evolution. From what we know from NDE and regression studies, there are many other alien races and forms for incarnations available to choose according to individual soul current stage, and there is no requirement for commitment to any specific race (like humans only). But many souls do reincarnate into humans many times because it aligns well with their current state of consciousness and because they develop a certain affinity with human form and human experiences.

It is like once you leant everything you were supposed to learn in public school, you graduate and go to college for further development and education, there is no point to stay "committed" to public school and returning back over and over again to grade 12 after graduation. But if you want to stay committed, you can graduate from college with teacher's degree and return to school, but now as a teacher with completely different role, and that would be only your personal choice. There are other important roles for college graduates, school teachers are not the only one.

And yes, I have doubts that there is any significant spiritual evolution of humanity as a whole, while there is no doubt that there is and have been spiritual evolution of certain human souls or small groups of the souls. And even if there is some progress of humanity, it still only moves within the dualistic degrees of progress (like cultural, sociopolitical, technological, scientific etc). So yes, the question that you posed in PS still remains open.

Also, it is possible that the current human form will become an evolutionary dead end (like other humaniod strands like Neandertals, Denisovans, Homo Erectus etc) and some other more spiritually malleable lineage of humans will replace the current sapiens form, but of course, this is only a speculation.

I understand that you are defending a "human race nationalism/patriotism" position, but IMO any kind of nationalism is only a limited perspective. I mean, any racial patriotism is good when taken constructively and as a medium priority value, but not when it becomes the value of the highest priority.
"You are not a drop in the ocean, you are the ocean in a drop" Rumi
User avatar
AshvinP
Posts: 5483
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:00 am
Location: USA

Re: Meditation exercise on "separate me"

Post by AshvinP »

Stranger wrote: Fri Feb 17, 2023 10:39 pm
AshvinP wrote: Fri Feb 17, 2023 8:54 pm I hear what you're saying, Eugene, but I'm asking why what you're now saying here is so inconsistent with your other beliefs and practices, as recounted on this and other threads? The 'lower ego is an illusion which needs to be discarded for our true Center' approach only makes sense if everything you wrote above is practically discarded and instead a hard limit is assumed. In many other places, you have been 'preaching' the hard limits of corporeal existence and the lack of capacity to spiritualize our sheaths during our incarnations as Christ did. At one point not too long ago, you even questioned whether we can say there is any spiritual evolution taking place on Earth.

So, I wonder whether what you wrote above is actually descending deeper into the soul-life of living thought, feeling and will, or whether it remains at the surface intellectual level and there isn't sufficient motivation to pursue it further than that? If you don't feel like responding, that's fine, but it's at least something to ponder.

PS - I think we agree the resurrected body of Christ was substantially different than our current form, but the question is whether it is lawfully continuous with that form and prefigures what all humans can accomplish with perfecting their organism through the sacrifices of incarnational rhythms. Or, rather, whether it is discontinuous and therefore our greatest hope is either a global-scale miraculous event which will come to our rescue or simply waiting for death and choosing to escape the incarnational rhythm.
In the previous threads (the "Demiurge" one specifically) I do not remember saying that there is a "hard limit" for the current human form, I only said that the transition to the nondual state is significantly impeded by the karmic/genetic structures of the current human form. While the soul remains in the dualistic state, the human form is actually quite well fit for the soul's evolution, but not anymore after the transition to the nondual state.

Well, you just said it again right here. The bold is exactly the hard limit to what can be known-transformed from within and through the Earthly incarnational rhythm. That is the hard limit we have been questioning this entire time. It is a limit which even you acknowledge that Christ incarnate, as our human ideal, revealed as not applicable to establishing a harmonious relationship of body-soul-spirit.

The idea of incarnation is that it is supposed to help with spiritual development of consciousness, not to impede it. Material form is only a shape that individuated consciousness takes in order to evolve through certain incarnate learning paths and experiences, so the actual goal is not the evolution of humanity, but the evolution of consciousness through specific incarnate forms that facilitate that evolution. From what we know from NDE and regression studies, there are many other alien races and forms for incarnations available to choose according to individual soul current stage, and there is no requirement for commitment to any specific race (like humans only). But many souls do reincarnate into humans many times because it aligns well with their current state of consciousness and because they develop a certain affinity with human form and human experiences.

It is like once you leant everything you were supposed to learn in public school, you graduate and go to college for further development and education, there is no point to stay "committed" to public school and returning back over and over again to grade 12 after graduation. But if you want to stay committed, you can graduate from college with teacher's degree and return to school, but now as a teacher with completely different role, and that would be only your personal choice. There are other important roles for college graduates, school teachers are not the only one.

And yes, I have doubts that there is any significant spiritual evolution of humanity as a whole, while there is no doubt that there is and have been spiritual evolution of certain human souls or small groups of the souls. And even if there is some progress of humanity, it still only moves within the dualistic degrees of progress (like cultural, sociopolitical, technological, scientific etc). So yes, the question that you posed in PS still remains open.

Also, it is possible that the current human form will become an evolutionary dead end (like other humaniod strands like Neandertals, Denisovans, Homo Erectus etc) and some other more spiritually malleable lineage of humans will replace the current sapiens form, but of course, this is only a speculation.

I understand that you are defending a "human race nationalism/patriotism" position, but IMO any kind of nationalism is only a limited perspective. I mean, any racial patriotism is good when taken constructively and as a medium priority value, but not when it becomes the value of the highest priority.

It's very interesting how you are invoking alien races now in order to maintain an every human soul for him/herself policy. We could call it, 'soul darwinism'. It is imagined that somehow an individual human soul can go off wherever they choose into higher spheres and leave every other Earth soul to fend for itself, and this desire is justified by calling the ideal of universal human brotherhood and mutual ascension, "human race nationalism/patriotism". Effectively, the soul darwinism, if taken to its logical conclusion by everyone, ensures humanity will remain fragmented into precisely racial and national tribes, and therefore the Earth evolution will remain stunted. All we need is to retain an unprejudiced, clear-headed assessment of these things to see how upside down they can become.

The Christ principle is exactly as Father Zosima says in the Brothers Karamazov, that every soul is “undoubtably responsible for all men and everything on earth." We can look for whatever evidence fits our desire to avoid this responsibility, and we will find it wherever we look through our preference-tinted glasses, so ultimately the question is whether we are willing to sacrifice our personal desires/preferences for the universal human Ideal. Only when we are actually willing to make that sacrifice, instead of only theorize about making it, can we begin to move towards a humanity which is free of its tribal divisions and an Earth which is truly inspired by the Sun.

Steiner wrote:The love which is to develop on Earth can only develop through earthly egos being related one to another in the way described:

Development in this direction can only take place through men being torn away from group-soul qualities; through one man drawing close to another; only thus can true love develop.

Where egos are united within the group-soul there is no true love.

Beings must be separated from each other so that love may be offered as a free gift. Only by such a separation as has come about in the human kingdom, where ego meets ego as independent individual, has love as a free gift become possible.

This is why an increasing individualism and a uniting of separate individuals had to come about on earth.

Only when the group-nature is overcome, and individual confronts individual ego, can the sympathy of love be offered as a free gift from one being to another.

Thus man continued gradually to mature that he might eventually receive the highest potency of love — the CHRIST PRINCIPLE,
which expressed its nature in the words, “He who does not forsake father, mother, son, and daughter, he who does not take up his cross and follow Me, is not worthy of Me.”

These words are not to be understood trivially, but in the sense that, through reception of the Christ Principle the ancient blood brotherhood had to assume a new form, a feeling of “belonging to each other” which, regardless of material foundations, must pass from soul to soul, from man to man.

The Christ-Principle has given the impulse by which man can love man, and that through being Christened human love may become more and more spiritual.

Love will become more psychic and more spiritual, and through this man will also draw along with him the lower creations, and will thus transform the earth.

In a far distant future he will transform the entire substance of the earth, and so mature the earth-body that it will be enabled to unite again with the sun.

Christ as Spiritual Sun has given the impulse by which the earth and the sun can again be united in one body at a future day.
"A secret law contrives,
To give time symmetry:
There is, within our lives,
An exact mystery."
Stranger
Posts: 760
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2022 2:26 pm

Re: Meditation exercise on "separate me"

Post by Stranger »

AshvinP wrote: Sat Feb 18, 2023 1:31 am Well, you just said it again right here. The bold is exactly the hard limit to what can be known-transformed from within and through the Earthly incarnational rhythm. That is the hard limit we have been questioning this entire time. It is a limit which even you acknowledge that Christ incarnate, as our human ideal, revealed as not applicable to establishing a harmonious relationship of body-soul-spirit.
No, I insist again that impediment is not the same as hard limit.
The Christ principle is exactly as Father Zosima says in the Brothers Karamazov, that every soul is “undoubtably responsible for all men and everything on earth." We can look for whatever evidence fits our desire to avoid this responsibility, and we will find it wherever we look through our preference-tinted glasses, so ultimately the question is whether we are willing to sacrifice our personal desires/preferences for the universal human Ideal. Only when we are actually willing to make that sacrifice, instead of only theorize about making it, can we begin to move towards a humanity which is free of its tribal divisions and an Earth which is truly inspired by the Sun.
Christ as Spiritual Sun has given the impulse by which the earth and the sun can again be united in one body at a future day
Every soul is indeed “undoubtably responsible for all men and everything on earth." during their human life on Earth, but has no such obligation after leaving the human body. The return to human form is a totally voluntary choice of each soul according to its own path.

Basically you are voicing a "humanocentirsm" perspective as if the whole Cosmos is revolving around the Earth and humanity, and all spiritual progress of Consciousness is happening only through the evolution of humanity. But this is not the case, the Cosmos contains a vast number of realms, planets and races, all of them together constituting the universal brotherhood of all of the individuated spiritual activities of the Cosmic Consciousness.

Just like in our human form we need to transcend narrow limits of nationalism of specific human races (adhering to the collective soul of a specific race) in order to raise our consciousness to all-encompassing patriotism of humanity, likewise we need to further raise our consciousness even higher to transcend the limits of the collective soul of humanity and reach to the collective soul of the Cosmic Consciousness. The Christ Principle of brotherhood is totally Cosmic, and it is not specifically related to human race (or any specific race in particular). That is because in the nondual state of Christ Consciousness the soul becomes one with the Father - the Universal Cosmic Consciousness, and not just with the collective soul of any particular race. That is exactly what Christ meant here saying “He who does not forsake [their human] father, mother, son, and daughter, he who does not take up his cross and follow Me, is not worthy of Me.”
In my Father's house are many mansions (John 14)
It is understandable that this "humanocentrism" is coming from humanity-centered Abrahamic religions and through them also influenced Anthroposophy. The Hindu and Buddhist traditions were well aware that humans are by far not the only race in the Cosmos, and by far not the most important one.

It is also worth noting that, again according to recollections of previous lives from NDE and regression accounts, there are souls that are native to Earth and keep incarnating into humans many times, and there are souls that are only temporary visitors to Earth and incarnate here only once or a few times to gain certain knowledge or experience they need on their developmental path or to help humanity and bring some new perspectives or knowledge to humans, and there are also souls that graduate and leave the "Earth school" to continue in other forms that are more appropriate for their stage of development. We also know from NDE/regression accounts that it is not just a capricious choice of a soul to incarnate wherever they want, but a decision made with advice from so-called "Spirit Guides" and with thorough preparation and planning under their guidance.
"You are not a drop in the ocean, you are the ocean in a drop" Rumi
User avatar
AshvinP
Posts: 5483
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:00 am
Location: USA

Re: Meditation exercise on "separate me"

Post by AshvinP »

Stranger wrote: Sat Feb 18, 2023 2:54 am
AshvinP wrote: Sat Feb 18, 2023 1:31 am Well, you just said it again right here. The bold is exactly the hard limit to what can be known-transformed from within and through the Earthly incarnational rhythm. That is the hard limit we have been questioning this entire time. It is a limit which even you acknowledge that Christ incarnate, as our human ideal, revealed as not applicable to establishing a harmonious relationship of body-soul-spirit.
No, I insist again that impediment is not the same as hard limit.
The Christ principle is exactly as Father Zosima says in the Brothers Karamazov, that every soul is “undoubtably responsible for all men and everything on earth." We can look for whatever evidence fits our desire to avoid this responsibility, and we will find it wherever we look through our preference-tinted glasses, so ultimately the question is whether we are willing to sacrifice our personal desires/preferences for the universal human Ideal. Only when we are actually willing to make that sacrifice, instead of only theorize about making it, can we begin to move towards a humanity which is free of its tribal divisions and an Earth which is truly inspired by the Sun.
Christ as Spiritual Sun has given the impulse by which the earth and the sun can again be united in one body at a future day
Every soul is indeed “undoubtably responsible for all men and everything on earth." during their human life on Earth, but has no such obligation after leaving the human body. The return to human form is a totally voluntary choice of each soul according to its own path.

Basically you are voicing a "humanocentirsm" perspective as if the whole Cosmos is revolving around the Earth and humanity. But this is not the case, the Cosmos contains a vast number of realms, planets and races, all of them together constituting the universal brotherhood of all of the individuated spiritual activities of the Cosmic Consciousness.

Just like in our human form we need to transcend narrow limits of nationalism of specific human races (adhering to the collective soul of a specific race) in order to raise our consciousness to all-encompassing patriotism of humanity, likewise we need to raise our consciousness even higher to transcend the limits of the collective soul of humanity and reach to the collective soul of the Cosmic Consciousness. The Christ Principle of brotherhood is totally Cosmic, and it is not specifically related to human race (or any specific race in particular).
In my Father's house are many mansions (John 14)
It is understandable that this "humanocentrism" is coming from humanity-centered Abrahamic religions and through them also influenced Anthroposophy. The Hindu and Buddhist traditions were well aware that humans are by far not the only race in the Cosmos, and by far not the most important one.

It is also worth noting that, again according to recollections of previous lives from NDE and regression accounts, there are souls that are native to Earth and keep incarnating into humans many times, and there are souls that are only temporary visitors to Earth and incarnate here only once or a few times to gain certain knowledge or experience they need on their developmental path or to help humanity and bring some new perspectives or knowledge to humans, and there are also souls that graduate and leave the "Earth school" to continue in other forms that are more appropriate for their stage of development. We also know from NDE/regression accounts that it is not just a capricious choice of a soul to incarnate wherever they want, but a decision made with advice from so-called "Spirit Guides" and with thorough preparation and planning under their guidance.

You said after the transition to nondual state the human form is no longer fit for supporting the soul's evolution. That is the hard limit.

It's clear to unprejudiced thinking why the hard limit is imposed. Then the spiritual cosmos can remain as a black box - we take a bit of NDE and regression accounts here, a bit of Buddhist and Christian scriptures there, etc. and get all the puzzle pieces we need to make sure our preference for 'complete freedom now without any corresponding responsibility' is confirmed. We say the responsibility is only while we are on Earth, but after death it no longer applies. Obviously this only incentivizes us to shirk our responsibility to the ideals on Earth as well, because after all it won't make a bit of difference for what happens to our soul after death. The continuity of moral lawfulness is completely broken. We reach towards an abstract force of 'Cosmic Consciousness' so that we can forsake all the specific souls who should be gradually harmonized through our Loving trans-incarnational efforts and who alone constellate the true Cosmic Consciousness.

Notice that none of this is claimed to be something which can be concretely verified by the nondual consciousness, by higher cognition, or otherwise - the last thing we want is for our black box to go away. So we say neither we nor anyone else has actually verified the course of our Solar evolution, the nature of extra-terrestrial life in the Cosmos, the role of the Earth's evolution in reintegrating the differentiated streams of evolution within the Solar system, etc. There are a bunch of vague traditions and accounts which seem to support us, but we can't be sure whether it's actually the case or not, and neither can anyone else. It will only be revealed after our own death, because for some reason Cosmic knowledge revolves around our current incarnation. Then our black box of personal desires and preferences is safe. It is impenetrable to both living experience and logic. Nothing can call it into question. Then God's kingdom comes not on Earth as it is Heaven, but where, when, and how we want it come. Our will be done, at all costs.

So now the Cosmos doesn't revolve around other alien races, the Earth, or humanity, but only around us.
"A secret law contrives,
To give time symmetry:
There is, within our lives,
An exact mystery."
Post Reply