The Nature of the sensory world or do we really *know* the ultimate ground of reality?

[AshvinP]

Thanks, Ashvin, yes I saw this chart somewhere. It's very similar to the one in Kürten's book, but what I hadn't understood so far is that each time period at each "floor" of the chart - apart from the ground floor with our age's 7 cultural epochs - is subdivided into the 7 partitions outlined underneath it, and so forth towards the bottom line. So we are now in the "Physical" Globe, in its post-Atlantean age, which in turn goes through its (present) Anglo-German cultural epoch. But what's incredible is that, after cultural epochs 6 and 7 within our post Atlantean times, the 6th and 7th Great ages will start, each of which will have its 7 cultural epochs inside.... and so on, and only after that, the "Astral" globe level will start to unfold in 7 ages.... and so forth for millennia. Which means that Earth will certainly not die with the so-called War of all against all, towards the year 7000 AD or so, and not even with the end of the 7th Great age. Maybe sensory perceptible Earth will... if I am getting it right? Still, more Earth millennia will be ahead. Anyhow, I was foolish to search for a 1:1 correspondence between the Mineral round and the post-Atlantean age

Yeah, and even the cultural epochs can be divided into 7 stages as well, and perhaps those stages can be as well, and so can our individual lives It seems everything that unfolds in the manifest domain follows a sevenfold mandalic pattern, contracting from the Center to the Periphery and turning back to the Center.

We shouldn’t imagine that the Time-flow experience remains the same (not that you were), however, and I think we are in the most sluggish period of evolution now since it is so fragmented into frame by frame experience, micro-managing the partial transitions within nearly all intents except our most intimate thinking intents, rather than the holistic time-consciousness that was characteristic of preceding epochs and will be of proceeding ones as we reintegrate the etheric forces in a conscious way.

BTW, who is that in your profile pic?

Well… that is me, or at least it's one reflection of my face yesterday evening. I know it breaks the pattern of not putting one’s own face as a profile picture here, and it may be surprising. I took it for another reason, and then it occurred to me that it could serve as profile picture, since I’ve been searching for one for months, without ever being satisfied with any symbols, paintings, drawings, or anything else.

That’s great! Since the subject matter we deal with here needs to be so impersonal or transpersonal, I think it's helpful to add the personal element in things like the profile picture, especially in our age where you can live around or even communicate with people for years and never actually interact with them face to face.

[Federica]

Thanks, Ashvin, yes I saw this chart somewhere. It's very similar to the one in Kürten's book, but what I hadn't understood so far is that each time period at each "floor" of the chart - apart from the ground floor with our age's 7 cultural epochs - is subdivided into the 7 partitions outlined underneath it, and so forth towards the bottom line. So we are now in the "Physical" Globe, in its post-Atlantean age, which in turn goes through its (present) Anglo-German cultural epoch. But what's incredible is that, after cultural epochs 6 and 7 within our post Atlantean times, the 6th and 7th Great ages will start, each of which will have its 7 cultural epochs inside.... and so on, and only after that, the "Astral" globe level will start to unfold in 7 ages.... and so forth for millennia. Which means that Earth will certainly not die with the so-called War of all against all, towards the year 7000 AD or so, and not even with the end of the 7th Great age. Maybe sensory perceptible Earth will... if I am getting it right? Still, more Earth millennia will be ahead. Anyhow, I was foolish to search for a 1:1 correspondence between the Mineral round and the post-Atlantean age

Yeah, and even the cultural epochs can be divided into 7 stages as well, and perhaps those stages can be as well, and so can our individual lives It seems everything that unfolds in the manifest domain follows a sevenfold mandalic pattern, contracting from the Center to the Periphery and turning back to the Center.

We shouldn’t imagine that the Time-flow experience remains the same (not that you were), however, and I think we are in the most sluggish period of evolution now since it is so fragmented into frame by frame experience, micro-managing the partial transitions within nearly all intents except our most intimate thinking intents, rather than the holistic time-consciousness that was characteristic of preceding epochs and will be of proceeding ones as we reintegrate the etheric forces in a conscious way.

BTW, who is that in your profile pic?

Well… that is me, or at least it's one reflection of my face yesterday evening. I know it breaks the pattern of not putting one’s own face as a profile picture here, and it may be surprising. I took it for another reason, and then it occurred to me that it could serve as profile picture, since I’ve been searching for one for months, without ever being satisfied with any symbols, paintings, drawings, or anything else.

That’s great! Since the subject matter we deal with here needs to be so impersonal or transpersonal, I think it's helpful to add the personal element in things like the profile picture, especially in our age where you can live around or even communicate with people for years and never actually interact with them face to face.

Yes, I follow your note on the evolving experience of time. This understanding of the nested quality of time rhythms, that seamlessly continues onto ‘this side’ of our perceived limit of the self - physical and other - is a simple but noticeable improvement in the direction of inwardly experienced, living reality. I am only a few pages in, and the book is already offering clarifications such as this one, for which I am thankful. We can contrast that with some Anthroposophical content out there that unfortunately suggests that after the 6th and 7th post-Atlantean cultural epochs, humanity will be ready to start ascending to the Jupiter etheric frequencies. Hopefully, many will be able to move past that surface-level understanding of evolution.

About “adding the personal element”, I've surely been adding it more than appropriate with my posts! This altered, abstractified profile actually tries to go in opposite direction.

[Güney27]

I have looked into Thoresen's work and can say that I have not found any reasonably described path of initiation or instructions for exercises such as those found by Steiner, Cleric, Klocek and others. He describes much more his own experiences. It's interesting to hear his stories, but I wouldn't exactly accept everything he says. It seems to me that he wants to attract customers to his workshops by promoting an easy and quick way for extrasensory perception.
Certainly one can learn certain things from him, but while being cautious about what he says about the other paths of initiation.

[Federica]

I have looked into Thoresen's work and can say that I have not found any reasonably described path of initiation or instructions for exercises such as those found by Steiner, Cleric, Klocek and others. He describes much more his own experiences. It's interesting to hear his stories, but I wouldn't exactly accept everything he says. It seems to me that he wants to attract customers to his workshops by promoting an easy and quick way for extrasensory perception.
Certainly one can learn certain things from him, but while being cautious about what he says about the other paths of initiation.

I agree with you, Güney, there are no specific descriptions of exercises provided on openly accessible resources. It's much more about personal experiences. The caveats are:


- There could be more in the books and/or at the workshops, talks, etcetera

- Most importantly, Thoresen states that the Nordic path has been indicated by Steiner himself, during a lecture series he gave in Scandinavia, and this is true. The type of concentration effort Steiner describes there is different. Moreover, Thoresen reports that Steiner, towards the end of his life, warned that the path of HTKTHW would become more and more difficult with less and less people walking it.

- Lastly, as Ashvin mentioned, some spiritual 'milestones' (in 1945 and 2018) have passed since Steiner's times, that speak for an increased accessibility of the elemental realms for human consciousness.


So, although I wouldn't for my part speculate that the motive of his public spiritual activities is commercial, I do agree with you that one should be cautious about what is said about other paths. Ashvin also said that.

[AshvinP]

Thanks, Ashvin, yes I saw this chart somewhere. It's very similar to the one in Kürten's book, but what I hadn't understood so far is that each time period at each "floor" of the chart - apart from the ground floor with our age's 7 cultural epochs - is subdivided into the 7 partitions outlined underneath it, and so forth towards the bottom line. So we are now in the "Physical" Globe, in its post-Atlantean age, which in turn goes through its (present) Anglo-German cultural epoch. But what's incredible is that, after cultural epochs 6 and 7 within our post Atlantean times, the 6th and 7th Great ages will start, each of which will have its 7 cultural epochs inside.... and so on, and only after that, the "Astral" globe level will start to unfold in 7 ages.... and so forth for millennia. Which means that Earth will certainly not die with the so-called War of all against all, towards the year 7000 AD or so, and not even with the end of the 7th Great age. Maybe sensory perceptible Earth will... if I am getting it right? Still, more Earth millennia will be ahead. Anyhow, I was foolish to search for a 1:1 correspondence between the Mineral round and the post-Atlantean age

Yeah, and even the cultural epochs can be divided into 7 stages as well, and perhaps those stages can be as well, and so can our individual lives It seems everything that unfolds in the manifest domain follows a sevenfold mandalic pattern, contracting from the Center to the Periphery and turning back to the Center.

We shouldn’t imagine that the Time-flow experience remains the same (not that you were), however, and I think we are in the most sluggish period of evolution now since it is so fragmented into frame by frame experience, micro-managing the partial transitions within nearly all intents except our most intimate thinking intents, rather than the holistic time-consciousness that was characteristic of preceding epochs and will be of proceeding ones as we reintegrate the etheric forces in a conscious way.

Well… that is me, or at least it's one reflection of my face yesterday evening. I know it breaks the pattern of not putting one’s own face as a profile picture here, and it may be surprising. I took it for another reason, and then it occurred to me that it could serve as profile picture, since I’ve been searching for one for months, without ever being satisfied with any symbols, paintings, drawings, or anything else.

That’s great! Since the subject matter we deal with here needs to be so impersonal or transpersonal, I think it's helpful to add the personal element in things like the profile picture, especially in our age where you can live around or even communicate with people for years and never actually interact with them face to face.

Yes, I follow your note on the evolving experience of time. This understanding of the nested quality of time rhythms, that seamlessly continues onto ‘this side’ of our perceived limit of the self - physical and other - is a simple but noticeable improvement in the direction of inwardly experienced, living reality. I am only a few pages in, and the book is already offering clarifications such as this one, for which I am thankful. We can contrast that with some Anthroposophical content out there that unfortunately suggests that after the 6th and 7th post-Atlantean cultural epochs, humanity will be ready to start ascending to the Jupiter etheric frequencies. Hopefully, many will be able to move past that surface-level understanding of evolution.

Federica,

There is a sense in which the future planetary epochs such as Jupiter will already be manifesting some of their characteristic qualities in corresponding preparatory stages. I think this is discussed to some extent in Kurten’s book. We should remember it is not only the past bodily and soul stages that are influencing developments in our own time, but also future spiritual stages. So something of the Jupiter aeon, where the Spirit Self is fully developed, will also be working into the remainder of our cultural epoch and the 6th epoch. That will only be a prefiguring of the Jupiter state, but relative to where we are now it will certainly be experienced as a monumental development in higher consciousness that transforms the living landscape. And that will be even more so the case once the 5th PA epoch metamorphoses into the 6th, and when the Earth transitions back to the astral stage of form and eventually into the plant stage of life.

During the First Earth Round the human kingdom gradually separated itself off. Man became more human, the animal more animal. The external body of man became slowly more human. During the Second Round the animal kingdom separated itself off, during the Third the plant kingdom, during the Fourth the mineral kingdom. Then man made a further ascent. The first three Rounds were repetitions of earlier conditions and a preparation, in order in the Fourth Round, in the Lemurian Race, to take up something new. Now man works upon the mineral kingdom. A time will come when, as the product of his activity, he will have worked over and transformed the mineral kingdom, so that no particle will then remain whose nature has not been changed by the artifice of man. Then the whole can be transmuted into pure astral forms.

That is the redemption of a kingdom. In the Fourth Round man will have redeemed the mineral kingdom, when he will have transformed it by his work upon it. Then everything goes into Pralaya; no mineral kingdom will be there, but the whole Earth will have become a plant. Man will then have been raised half a stage higher and everything else with him; for example in the Fifth Round, Cologne Cathedral will grow as a plant.

One is not working in vain when one gives form to the mineral kingdom. The Cologne Cathedral will eventually grow as plant world out of what will then be the ground. In the atmosphere of the Fifth Round, we find in living cloud formations everything which today has been painted. There we have to do with a repetition at a higher stage where all our work in the mineral world around us grows.

In the Fifth Round we redeem the plant world, in the Sixth the animal and in the Seventh Round the human kingdom. Then man will be mature enough to tread a new Planet. In order that he might develop upwards, the other kingdoms had to some extent to be pushed downwards and he must later redeem them. After the Seventh Round and a Pralaya he will go over to another Planet.

About “adding the personal element”, I've surely been adding it more than appropriate with my posts! This altered, abstractified profile actually tries to go in opposite direction.

The big problem with the personal is when we let it influence our manner of thinking and our evaluation of ideas. On the other hand, the expression of those ideas can probably benefit from a personal context. For example, we would all probably agree that it would be more fruitful if we could also meet in person at a coffee shop (or tea parlor for those who prefer tea) and discuss these ideas, rather than only discussing them on this forum. In any case, from my perspective, the picture is certainly a more personal touch than no picture and I think it works well!

[Federica]

Federica,

There is a sense in which the future planetary epochs such as Jupiter will already be manifesting some of their characteristic qualities in corresponding preparatory stages. I think this is discussed to some extent in Kurten’s book. We should remember it is not only the past bodily and soul stages that are influencing developments in our own time, but also future spiritual stages. So something of the Jupiter aeon, where the Spirit Self is fully developed, will also be working into the remainder of our cultural epoch and the 6th epoch. That will only be a prefiguring of the Jupiter state, but relative to where we are now it will certainly be experienced as a monumental development in higher consciousness that transforms the living landscape. And that will be even more so the case once the 5th PA epoch metamorphoses into the 6th, and when the Earth transitions back to the astral stage of form and eventually into the plant stage of life.

During the First Earth Round the human kingdom gradually separated itself off. Man became more human, the animal more animal. The external body of man became slowly more human. During the Second Round the animal kingdom separated itself off, during the Third the plant kingdom, during the Fourth the mineral kingdom. Then man made a further ascent. The first three Rounds were repetitions of earlier conditions and a preparation, in order in the Fourth Round, in the Lemurian Race, to take up something new. Now man works upon the mineral kingdom. A time will come when, as the product of his activity, he will have worked over and transformed the mineral kingdom, so that no particle will then remain whose nature has not been changed by the artifice of man. Then the whole can be transmuted into pure astral forms.

That is the redemption of a kingdom. In the Fourth Round man will have redeemed the mineral kingdom, when he will have transformed it by his work upon it. Then everything goes into Pralaya; no mineral kingdom will be there, but the whole Earth will have become a plant. Man will then have been raised half a stage higher and everything else with him; for example in the Fifth Round, Cologne Cathedral will grow as a plant.

One is not working in vain when one gives form to the mineral kingdom. The Cologne Cathedral will eventually grow as plant world out of what will then be the ground. In the atmosphere of the Fifth Round, we find in living cloud formations everything which today has been painted. There we have to do with a repetition at a higher stage where all our work in the mineral world around us grows.

In the Fifth Round we redeem the plant world, in the Sixth the animal and in the Seventh Round the human kingdom. Then man will be mature enough to tread a new Planet. In order that he might develop upwards, the other kingdoms had to some extent to be pushed downwards and he must later redeem them. After the Seventh Round and a Pralaya he will go over to another Planet.

I was thinking that, in the same way that the three first rounds are recapitulations, the last three were prefigurations. Now we still are, and for a very long time will be, in the middle round. Is it so that there’s an asymmetry in the power of attraction of past and future on the rounds, and the future attracts more than the past? I thought that if any, the attraction of past would be stronger (because of the Ahrimanic effects you mentioned) not weaker. But even if it's equal, we still are in the middle globe of the middle round for a while.

A time will come when, as the product of his activity, he will have worked over and transformed the mineral kingdom, so that no particle will then remain whose nature has not been changed by the artifice of man. Then the whole can be transmuted into pure astral forms.

Ok, but before that transmutation into astral, there are some 2 + 7 + 7 = 16 epochs of material - physical evolution, each one 2100 something years long (using the length of our current PA epochs as a proxy). That is, more than 33 000 years within the material round-physical globe. Do you mean that there will be a prefiguration of Jupiter already during this period? Even before the Köln Cathedral grows out of its basement like a plant?

There is no mention of that in the quote, rather this:
“In the Fifth Round we redeem the plant world, in the Sixth the animal and in the Seventh Round the human kingdom. Then man will be mature enough to tread a new Planet.”

The big problem with the personal is when we let it influence our manner of thinking and our evaluation of ideas. On the other hand, the expression of those ideas can probably benefit from a personal context. For example, we would all probably agree that it would be more fruitful if we could also meet in person at a coffee shop (or tea parlor for those who prefer tea) and discuss these ideas, rather than only discussing them on this forum. In any case, from my perspective, the picture is certainly a more personal touch than no picture and I think it works well!

I’m not sure everyone would agree, but I surely do!

[AshvinP]

Federica,

There is a sense in which the future planetary epochs such as Jupiter will already be manifesting some of their characteristic qualities in corresponding preparatory stages. I think this is discussed to some extent in Kurten’s book. We should remember it is not only the past bodily and soul stages that are influencing developments in our own time, but also future spiritual stages. So something of the Jupiter aeon, where the Spirit Self is fully developed, will also be working into the remainder of our cultural epoch and the 6th epoch. That will only be a prefiguring of the Jupiter state, but relative to where we are now it will certainly be experienced as a monumental development in higher consciousness that transforms the living landscape. And that will be even more so the case once the 5th PA epoch metamorphoses into the 6th, and when the Earth transitions back to the astral stage of form and eventually into the plant stage of life.

During the First Earth Round the human kingdom gradually separated itself off. Man became more human, the animal more animal. The external body of man became slowly more human. During the Second Round the animal kingdom separated itself off, during the Third the plant kingdom, during the Fourth the mineral kingdom. Then man made a further ascent. The first three Rounds were repetitions of earlier conditions and a preparation, in order in the Fourth Round, in the Lemurian Race, to take up something new. Now man works upon the mineral kingdom. A time will come when, as the product of his activity, he will have worked over and transformed the mineral kingdom, so that no particle will then remain whose nature has not been changed by the artifice of man. Then the whole can be transmuted into pure astral forms.

That is the redemption of a kingdom. In the Fourth Round man will have redeemed the mineral kingdom, when he will have transformed it by his work upon it. Then everything goes into Pralaya; no mineral kingdom will be there, but the whole Earth will have become a plant. Man will then have been raised half a stage higher and everything else with him; for example in the Fifth Round, Cologne Cathedral will grow as a plant.

One is not working in vain when one gives form to the mineral kingdom. The Cologne Cathedral will eventually grow as plant world out of what will then be the ground. In the atmosphere of the Fifth Round, we find in living cloud formations everything which today has been painted. There we have to do with a repetition at a higher stage where all our work in the mineral world around us grows.

In the Fifth Round we redeem the plant world, in the Sixth the animal and in the Seventh Round the human kingdom. Then man will be mature enough to tread a new Planet. In order that he might develop upwards, the other kingdoms had to some extent to be pushed downwards and he must later redeem them. After the Seventh Round and a Pralaya he will go over to another Planet.

I was thinking that, in the same way that the three first rounds are recapitulations, the last three were prefigurations. Now we still are, and for a very long time will be, in the middle round. Is it so that there’s an asymmetry in the power of attraction of past and future on the rounds, and the future attracts more than the past? I thought that if any, the attraction of past would be stronger (because of the Ahrimanic effects you mentioned) not weaker. But even if it's equal, we still are in the middle globe of the middle round for a while.

A time will come when, as the product of his activity, he will have worked over and transformed the mineral kingdom, so that no particle will then remain whose nature has not been changed by the artifice of man. Then the whole can be transmuted into pure astral forms.

Ok, but before that transmutation into astral, there are some 2 + 7 + 7 = 16 epochs of material - physical evolution, each one 2100 something years long (using the length of our current PA epochs as a proxy). That is, more than 33 000 years within the material round-physical globe. Do you mean that there will be a prefiguration of Jupiter already during this period? Even before the Köln Cathedral grows out of its basement like a plant?

There is no mention of that in the quote, rather this:
“In the Fifth Round we redeem the plant world, in the Sixth the animal and in the Seventh Round the human kingdom. Then man will be mature enough to tread a new Planet.”

The big problem with the personal is when we let it influence our manner of thinking and our evaluation of ideas. On the other hand, the expression of those ideas can probably benefit from a personal context. For example, we would all probably agree that it would be more fruitful if we could also meet in person at a coffee shop (or tea parlor for those who prefer tea) and discuss these ideas, rather than only discussing them on this forum. In any case, from my perspective, the picture is certainly a more personal touch than no picture and I think it works well!

I’m not sure everyone would agree, but I surely do!

I am speaking generally of the Divine plan which includes the Ahrimanic effects but without presuming those effects will completely stall out human evolution, which is perhaps a possibility albeit very unlikely. After the turning point in time i.e. the Christ events on the physical plane, I think it is fair to say that the future acts as a stronger attractive force than the momentum of the past. In a certain sense, it is always the future (unmanifest) that is structuring the past (manifest) but our consciousness becomes conditioned by the latter in the manifest domain and mistakes it for the essential cause of the present. For example, every previous cultural development we have gone through was seeded in advance by higher initiates who ‘lived in the future’. The same is true today. But if we are speaking only phenomenologically, then we always experience ourselves halfway between the past and future, the manifest and unmanifest. In an evolutionary arc (as opposed to an involutionary arc), the unmanifest is the more attractive force. Our spiritual activity is oriented more towards its own potential capacities rather than its already actualized habits of being.

Perhaps it is easier to think about it from a non-esoteric perspective to begin with. Think about how much the cultural and natural landscape has changed in response to changing conditions of consciousness over the last 50 or 100 or 500 years. Even 50 years ago, we could scarcely imagine how much our lives would be interwoven and interdependent on little computers that we carry around with us and send invisible signals all over the place for us to communicate. We know that the pace of change is also accelerating as we approach the threshold of the spiritual world. All of the secular talk about approaching a "singularity" is a dim conceptualization of that threshold. Now imagine how things will look (not just physically, but also psychically and spiritually) at that rate of change 1,000, 5,000, or 10,000 years from now! Although there are periods of qualitative evolutionary explosion so to speak (like the Cambrian explosion), all the future stages also manifest along a gradient of continual development.

Even between the Atlantean and PA epochs we can discern a major development. For example, the Atlantean races experienced Divine judgment at their time of qualitative metamorphosis as an external event of nature i.e. the Flood. However, Steiner tells us that our own metamorphosis will be experienced as an unleashing of evil that is born from within our own souls i.e. 'the war of all against all'. (and prior to that, sexual reproduction will end!) The Atlantean judgment was also born from within the evil deeds of human souls, but their consciousness was more oriented towards the past than ours is or will be, so they experienced it as a completely external catastrophe. Or more accurately, they experienced their own souls as more merged with the outer environment in a dreamlike consciousness. So there has been a major shift from outer to inner experience and these changes will only progress at an accelerated pace going forward from where we are now.

[Federica]

Federica,

There is a sense in which the future planetary epochs such as Jupiter will already be manifesting some of their characteristic qualities in corresponding preparatory stages. I think this is discussed to some extent in Kurten’s book. We should remember it is not only the past bodily and soul stages that are influencing developments in our own time, but also future spiritual stages. So something of the Jupiter aeon, where the Spirit Self is fully developed, will also be working into the remainder of our cultural epoch and the 6th epoch. That will only be a prefiguring of the Jupiter state, but relative to where we are now it will certainly be experienced as a monumental development in higher consciousness that transforms the living landscape. And that will be even more so the case once the 5th PA epoch metamorphoses into the 6th, and when the Earth transitions back to the astral stage of form and eventually into the plant stage of life.

I was thinking that, in the same way that the three first rounds are recapitulations, the last three were prefigurations. Now we still are, and for a very long time will be, in the middle round. Is it so that there’s an asymmetry in the power of attraction of past and future on the rounds, and the future attracts more than the past? I thought that if any, the attraction of past would be stronger (because of the Ahrimanic effects you mentioned) not weaker. But even if it's equal, we still are in the middle globe of the middle round for a while.

A time will come when, as the product of his activity, he will have worked over and transformed the mineral kingdom, so that no particle will then remain whose nature has not been changed by the artifice of man. Then the whole can be transmuted into pure astral forms.

Ok, but before that transmutation into astral, there are some 2 + 7 + 7 = 16 epochs of material - physical evolution, each one 2100 something years long (using the length of our current PA epochs as a proxy). That is, more than 33 000 years within the material round-physical globe. Do you mean that there will be a prefiguration of Jupiter already during this period? Even before the Köln Cathedral grows out of its basement like a plant?

There is no mention of that in the quote, rather this:
“In the Fifth Round we redeem the plant world, in the Sixth the animal and in the Seventh Round the human kingdom. Then man will be mature enough to tread a new Planet.”

The big problem with the personal is when we let it influence our manner of thinking and our evaluation of ideas. On the other hand, the expression of those ideas can probably benefit from a personal context. For example, we would all probably agree that it would be more fruitful if we could also meet in person at a coffee shop (or tea parlor for those who prefer tea) and discuss these ideas, rather than only discussing them on this forum. In any case, from my perspective, the picture is certainly a more personal touch than no picture and I think it works well!

I’m not sure everyone would agree, but I surely do!

I am speaking generally of the Divine plan which includes the Ahrimanic effects but without presuming those effects will completely stall out human evolution, which is perhaps a possibility albeit very unlikely. After the turning point in time i.e. the Christ events on the physical plane, I think it is fair to say that the future acts as a stronger attractive force than the momentum of the past. In a certain sense, it is always the future (unmanifest) that is structuring the past (manifest) but our consciousness becomes conditioned by the latter in the manifest domain and mistakes it for the essential cause of the present. For example, every previous cultural development we have gone through was seeded in advance by higher initiates who ‘lived in the future’. The same is true today. But if we are speaking only phenomenologically, then we always experience ourselves halfway between the past and future, the manifest and unmanifest. In an evolutionary arc (as opposed to an involutionary arc), the unmanifest is the more attractive force. Our spiritual activity is oriented more towards its own potential capacities rather than its already actualized habits of being.

Perhaps it is easier to think about it from a non-esoteric perspective to begin with. Think about how much the cultural and natural landscape has changed in response to changing conditions of consciousness over the last 50 or 100 or 500 years. Even 50 years ago, we could scarcely imagine how much our lives would be interwoven and interdependent on little computers that we carry around with us and send invisible signals all over the place for us to communicate. We know that the pace of change is also accelerating as we approach the threshold of the spiritual world. All of the secular talk about approaching a "singularity" is a dim conceptualization of that threshold. Now imagine how things will look (not just physically, but also psychically and spiritually) at that rate of change 1,000, 5,000, or 10,000 years from now! Although there are periods of qualitative evolutionary explosion so to speak (like the Cambrian explosion), all the future stages also manifest along a gradient of continual development.

Even between the Atlantean and PA epochs we can discern a major development. For example, the Atlantean races experienced Divine judgment at their time of qualitative metamorphosis as an external event of nature i.e. the Flood. However, Steiner tells us that our own metamorphosis will be experienced as an unleashing of evil that is born from within our own souls i.e. 'the war of all against all'. (and prior to that, sexual reproduction will end!) The Atlantean judgment was also born from within the evil deeds of human souls, but their consciousness was more oriented towards the past than ours is or will be, so they experienced it as a completely external catastrophe. Or more accurately, they experienced their own souls as more merged with the outer environment in a dreamlike consciousness. So there has been a major shift from outer to inner experience and these changes will only progress at an accelerated pace going forward from where we are now.

It makes sense, Ashvin, thanks. Indeed, I was holding the beginning and end of each period as too hard limits, as if they could somehow regulate the intensity of future attraction. I haven't read anything about the war of all against all, among bi-gendered beings (if this is the prospect) but I have read about the Lemurian age, when energy was withdrawn from reproduction through separation of genders in order to allow for the development of thinking. And I imagine that, when reproduction becomes individualized again, after enough spiritualization, it's not a physical body that will be born, but an etheric one, or a new etheric-physical body with intermediary 'consistency'? Does Steiner speak of this period in some detail?

[AshvinP]

I was thinking that, in the same way that the three first rounds are recapitulations, the last three were prefigurations. Now we still are, and for a very long time will be, in the middle round. Is it so that there’s an asymmetry in the power of attraction of past and future on the rounds, and the future attracts more than the past? I thought that if any, the attraction of past would be stronger (because of the Ahrimanic effects you mentioned) not weaker. But even if it's equal, we still are in the middle globe of the middle round for a while.




Ok, but before that transmutation into astral, there are some 2 + 7 + 7 = 16 epochs of material - physical evolution, each one 2100 something years long (using the length of our current PA epochs as a proxy). That is, more than 33 000 years within the material round-physical globe. Do you mean that there will be a prefiguration of Jupiter already during this period? Even before the Köln Cathedral grows out of its basement like a plant?

There is no mention of that in the quote, rather this:
“In the Fifth Round we redeem the plant world, in the Sixth the animal and in the Seventh Round the human kingdom. Then man will be mature enough to tread a new Planet.”





I’m not sure everyone would agree, but I surely do!

I am speaking generally of the Divine plan which includes the Ahrimanic effects but without presuming those effects will completely stall out human evolution, which is perhaps a possibility albeit very unlikely. After the turning point in time i.e. the Christ events on the physical plane, I think it is fair to say that the future acts as a stronger attractive force than the momentum of the past. In a certain sense, it is always the future (unmanifest) that is structuring the past (manifest) but our consciousness becomes conditioned by the latter in the manifest domain and mistakes it for the essential cause of the present. For example, every previous cultural development we have gone through was seeded in advance by higher initiates who ‘lived in the future’. The same is true today. But if we are speaking only phenomenologically, then we always experience ourselves halfway between the past and future, the manifest and unmanifest. In an evolutionary arc (as opposed to an involutionary arc), the unmanifest is the more attractive force. Our spiritual activity is oriented more towards its own potential capacities rather than its already actualized habits of being.

Perhaps it is easier to think about it from a non-esoteric perspective to begin with. Think about how much the cultural and natural landscape has changed in response to changing conditions of consciousness over the last 50 or 100 or 500 years. Even 50 years ago, we could scarcely imagine how much our lives would be interwoven and interdependent on little computers that we carry around with us and send invisible signals all over the place for us to communicate. We know that the pace of change is also accelerating as we approach the threshold of the spiritual world. All of the secular talk about approaching a "singularity" is a dim conceptualization of that threshold. Now imagine how things will look (not just physically, but also psychically and spiritually) at that rate of change 1,000, 5,000, or 10,000 years from now! Although there are periods of qualitative evolutionary explosion so to speak (like the Cambrian explosion), all the future stages also manifest along a gradient of continual development.

Even between the Atlantean and PA epochs we can discern a major development. For example, the Atlantean races experienced Divine judgment at their time of qualitative metamorphosis as an external event of nature i.e. the Flood. However, Steiner tells us that our own metamorphosis will be experienced as an unleashing of evil that is born from within our own souls i.e. 'the war of all against all'. (and prior to that, sexual reproduction will end!) The Atlantean judgment was also born from within the evil deeds of human souls, but their consciousness was more oriented towards the past than ours is or will be, so they experienced it as a completely external catastrophe. Or more accurately, they experienced their own souls as more merged with the outer environment in a dreamlike consciousness. So there has been a major shift from outer to inner experience and these changes will only progress at an accelerated pace going forward from where we are now.

It makes sense, Ashvin, thanks. Indeed, I was holding the beginning and end of each period as too hard limits, as if they could somehow regulate the intensity of future attraction. I haven't read anything about the war of all against all, among bi-gendered beings (if this is the prospect) but I have read about the Lemurian age, when energy was withdrawn from reproduction through separation of genders in order to allow for the development of thinking. And I imagine that, when reproduction becomes individualized again, after enough spiritualization, it's not a physical body that will be born, but an etheric one, or a new etheric-physical body with intermediary 'consistency'? Does Steiner speak of this period in some detail?

Federica,

I’m not sure how much detail he goes into. Here are a few small excerpts I found indicating it will develop within the next few thousand years.

And bear in mind also what I mentioned recently: that spiritual investigation shows that in the sixth and seventh millennium there will be a decline in fertility. Women will become increasingly sterile. The present method of reproduction will no longer be possible; it must be transposed to a higher plane. In order that the world may not fall into a state of decadence, when opinions as to what is good and evil will be treated medically, in order that good and evil, all personal determination of what is good and evil, should not be recorded merely as a matter to be decided by State regulation or human conventions in order that this should not arise at a time when the natural order that at present prevails in the human species will of necessity have ceased to maintain the race — for just as in women fertility ceases at a certain age, so too the present method of reproduction in the human species will cease at a certain stage of Earth evolution — in order to forestall this, the Christ Impulse was bestowed upon mankind.
…
(another lecture series) One can also reply that from the results of purely occult investigations — I am aware of course that modern science will regard this as nonsense, but it is none the less true — man as he is today cannot possibly exist six thousand years hence, any more than it is possible for a man who is now twenty years old to be alive in two hundred years time. We can discover through occult investigation that in the sixth millennium women as they are constituted today will become sterile and that an entirely different reproductive process will exist by that time. I realize that this will sound the purest nonsense to those who think along the lines of modern science; nevertheless the fact is undeniable. In our present materialistic age people have very confused ideas about history and historical evolution. Therefore we no longer understand even subtle indications transmitted by external history of differences in the constitution of the human soul which have taken place in relatively recent times.

Interestingly, I found this graph which indicates global fertility rates have been cut in half over the last few decades. So perhaps things are progressing even more rapidly than Steiner could discern at the time. It reminds me of the movie, Children of Men, which is a great movie if you haven’t seen it yet. Of course, secular research identifies all sorts of cultural symptoms of this transformation – such as contraceptive technology, women choosing to get an education and work, child mortality decreasing, etc. - and confuses those for the cause, when the real cause is the changing consciousness of the relationship between the physical and the etheric forces, which also illuminates many of the exoteric symptoms.





The intermediary physical-etheric body also makes sense, or a ‘plastic’ body, given how occult research describes our prior evolution. But we shouldn't imagine we will experience it as we would now if the physical body suddenly became more plastic. Because our entire conscious experience will have shifted from fragmented spatial consciousness to more holistic temporal consciousness.

For it was only in the course of time that the forms of man and woman arose from an earlier, original form in which the human being was neither the one nor the other, but both at the same time. He who would gain for himself a conception of those primeval ages must free himself entirely from those customary ideas which are drawn from present conditions. The times to which we are looking back lie somewhat before the middle of that epoch called in the preceding extracts the Lemurian. The human body then consisted of soft plastic matter; and the rest of the earthly forms also were both soft and plastic. Compared with its later firmness, the earth was still in a bubbling and more fluid state. The human soul, being embodied in that matter, could then adapt itself in a much greater degree than later. For the clothing of the soul in a male or female body is due to the fact that the one or the other is forced upon it by the development of external nature. So long as matter had not become firm, the soul could enforce its own laws upon it. It moulded the body in its own likeness; but when matter had grown dense the soul had to suit itself to the laws stamped on that matter by external nature. So long as the soul was master of matter, it formed its body neither male nor female, but gave to it qualities common to both. For the soul is at once both male and female. In itself it bears these two natures. Its male element is related to that which we call Will, its female element to what is designated Imagination. The external formation of the earth has led the body to adopt a one-sided evolution. The male body has assumed a form determined by the element of Will; the female, on the contrary, bears rather the impress of Imagination. Thus it is that the bisexual male-female soul inhabits a unisexual male or female body. And so the body had in the course of evolution assumed so decided a form through the influence of external earth-forces that thereafter it was no longer possible for the soul to pour its entire force into this body. It had to retain within itself something of the force that belonged to it, and could allow only a part to flow into the body.