A Polar Comparison of the Buddha and the Christ

Any topics primarily focused on metaphysics can be discussed here, in a generally casual way, where conversations may take unexpected turns.
User avatar
Lou Gold
Posts: 2025
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:18 pm

Re: A Polar Comparison of the Buddha and the Christ

Post by Lou Gold »

Federica wrote: Sun Mar 12, 2023 10:03 pm
Lou Gold wrote: Sun Mar 12, 2023 9:53 pm
Lou Gold wrote: Sun Mar 12, 2023 4:23 pm

Aloha Federica,

I'm aware that Poplawski offers another definition: "Lucifer, however, represents a force that paradoxically can combine beauty and if you will, beauty gone too far, to the extreme of decadence, hence to evil" and I don't mean to challenge it. Yes, I agree that one can fall into being blinded by the light as well as being lost in the dark and both can fit the word decadent. Being close to death is new to me. I did not expect it to be liminal and liberating but that's what I'm encountering experientially and, storyteller that I am, I want to tell the story hoping that it might be helpful to others as well. I'm a newbie in this regard. Your challenges help me polish and hopefully enhance both my play and performance. Thank you. I believe our good wishes for evolution according our natures is mutual. May we all be blessed with happy trails and trials. :D


"Katherine May:

This life I have made is too small. It doesn’t allow enough in: enough ideas, enough beliefs, enough encounters with the exuberant magic of existence. I have been so keen to deny it, to veer deliberately towards the rational, to cling solely to the experiences that are directly observable by others. Only now, when everything is taken away, can I see what a folly this is. I don’t want that life anymore. I want what [the] ancients had: to be able to talk to god. Not in a personal sense, to a distant figure who is unfathomably wise, but to have a direct encounter with the flow of things, a communication without words. I want to let something break in me, some dam that has been shoring up this shamefully atavistic sense of the magic behind all things, the tingle of intelligence that was always waiting for me when I came to tap in. I want to feel that raw, elemental awe that my ancestors felt, rather than my tame, explained modern version. I want to prise open the confines of my skull and let in a flood of light and air and mystery… I want to retain what the quiet reveals, the small voices whose whispers can be heard only when everything falls silent.

How to Grow Re-enchanted with the World
Thank you for your thoughts and wishes, Lou.
Thank YOU Federica,

I want you to believe that I know that you respect me and I do not perceive your confrontations as rude. Indeed, I truly value them in my process of discovering how to communicate from a heart space that opens the possibility of transcending mere polarization. Please do not let the fact that I'm 'dying' - whatever that means - cause you to back off. I value the authenticity of your willingness to express who you are. It's well worth my appreciation and gratitude.
Be calm - Be clear - See the faults - See the suffering - Give your love
User avatar
Federica
Posts: 1741
Joined: Sat May 14, 2022 2:30 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: A Polar Comparison of the Buddha and the Christ

Post by Federica »

Lou Gold wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2023 5:08 am
Federica wrote: Sun Mar 12, 2023 10:03 pm
Lou Gold wrote: Sun Mar 12, 2023 9:53 pm

"Katherine May:

This life I have made is too small. It doesn’t allow enough in: enough ideas, enough beliefs, enough encounters with the exuberant magic of existence. I have been so keen to deny it, to veer deliberately towards the rational, to cling solely to the experiences that are directly observable by others. Only now, when everything is taken away, can I see what a folly this is. I don’t want that life anymore. I want what [the] ancients had: to be able to talk to god. Not in a personal sense, to a distant figure who is unfathomably wise, but to have a direct encounter with the flow of things, a communication without words. I want to let something break in me, some dam that has been shoring up this shamefully atavistic sense of the magic behind all things, the tingle of intelligence that was always waiting for me when I came to tap in. I want to feel that raw, elemental awe that my ancestors felt, rather than my tame, explained modern version. I want to prise open the confines of my skull and let in a flood of light and air and mystery… I want to retain what the quiet reveals, the small voices whose whispers can be heard only when everything falls silent.

How to Grow Re-enchanted with the World
Thank you for your thoughts and wishes, Lou.
Thank YOU Federica,

I want you to believe that I know that you respect me and I do not perceive your confrontations as rude. Indeed, I truly value them in my process of discovering how to communicate from a heart space that opens the possibility of transcending mere polarization. Please do not let the fact that I'm 'dying' - whatever that means - cause you to back off. I value the authenticity of your willingness to express who you are. It's well worth my appreciation and gratitude.

Thank you, Lou, and I know that you know :)
Besides, well we are all 'dying', I am not backing off because of that.
Rather, the reason is that I think that in order to transcend mere polarization, you should move on from playing.

No matter if it's for one day, one year, ten years, or beyond that you will spend on this Earth.
But this I have already tried to express in various ways since we met, with no success, which is why I'm saying that I am not wise enough to further repurpose my comments on "realization beyond the stories of realization" in any useful way.
In this epoch we have to be fighters for the spirit: man must realise what his powers can give way to, unless they are kept constantly under control for the conquest of the spiritual world. In this fifth epoch, man is entitled to his freedom to the highest degree! He has to go through that.
User avatar
Lou Gold
Posts: 2025
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:18 pm

Re: A Polar Comparison of the Buddha and the Christ

Post by Lou Gold »

Federica wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2023 7:16 am
Lou Gold wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2023 5:08 am
Federica wrote: Sun Mar 12, 2023 10:03 pm

Thank you for your thoughts and wishes, Lou.
Thank YOU Federica,

I want you to believe that I know that you respect me and I do not perceive your confrontations as rude. Indeed, I truly value them in my process of discovering how to communicate from a heart space that opens the possibility of transcending mere polarization. Please do not let the fact that I'm 'dying' - whatever that means - cause you to back off. I value the authenticity of your willingness to express who you are. It's well worth my appreciation and gratitude.

Thank you, Lou, and I know that you know :)
Besides, well we are all 'dying', I am not backing off because of that.
Rather, the reason is that I think that in order to transcend mere polarization, you should move on from playing.

No matter if it's for one day, one year, ten years, or beyond that you will spend on this Earth.
But this I have already tried to express in various ways since we met, with no success, which is why I'm saying that I am not wise enough to further repurpose my comments on "realization beyond the stories of realization" in any useful way.


Thank you, Federica,

Guess I've just got this 'young at heart' thing going, which is hardly inappropriate when challenged by late stage heart failure. Perhaps what you call 'playing' I call 'performing' but I assure you it's not a playpen. Just me doing the best I can with the help of lots of friends. As I quested after in my "Perhaps" poem, it's like a "work party or a festa of children." Right now I'm a happy camper moving from wonder to wonder. Wisely or not, so be it, amen. :D But, yes, mission and purpose have entered the picture, so please stay tuned.
Be calm - Be clear - See the faults - See the suffering - Give your love
User avatar
AshvinP
Posts: 5479
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:00 am
Location: USA

Re: A Polar Comparison of the Buddha and the Christ

Post by AshvinP »

Lou Gold wrote: Sat Mar 11, 2023 12:38 am
AshvinP wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 9:17 pm
Lou Gold wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 9:09 pm I also believe that it was an error to portray Christianity and Buddhism as a polarity. Perhaps a better title could be, "Buddhism and Christianity: A View of Balance." In such a formulation, Buddha and Christ would BOTH be seen as sitting at the fulcrum in their times AND continuing to evolve with the times. The historical Jesus enacted/performed the story that raised the fulcrum higher, offering redemption to all independent of spiritual practice. Karma, Bhakti, Jnana or whatever, the portal has been opened for many more to ascend and many do at many levels, which is just how evolution works.

The polarity of the scales is a a good focus if one wants to see the differences and separations at a given time but focussing on the fulcrum will offer a better view of the communion and connection that transcends time. It's an understanding: Which view does one want to stand under now in guiding her/his own personal process? Choice is God-given.

Lou,

Instead of going into a long-winded reply with a bunch of 'boring' details here, let me ask a question to illustrate my overall point - if we were to start with the 'view of balance' or 'communion and connection that transcends time', with the formulation of both sitting at the fulcrum AND continuing to evolve with the times, what is the next step for deeper understanding of these individualities-teachings and their critical roles in our spiritual evolution?
Aloha Ashvin, thanks for the simple question.

Please accept my standard caveat that I'm not a philosopher, saint, sage or spiritual teacher. My only claim to bits of wisdom is a bundle of mistakes. My essential nature has long been to perform as a storyteller. The fulcrum experience I've had is a 'peace beyond understanding'. I have regularly left that silent tranquility when my heart is captured by the possibility of helping to reduce the suffering beyond my individual experiences. I'm learning gradually how to meld movement and repose, action and peace. Times change. I passed through various activisms aimed at reducing suffering: personal individuation and growth, social justice, peace movement, environmental conservation, religious freedom, charity for souls and, most recently, reducing the fear of dying in a death phobic culture. My next step is always to be here now learning and doing the best I can. I recently had my 85th birthday, which turned out to be (despite my hospice condition) the best experience of my life. Leading up to it, I completed a very short poem:

JOURNEY OF HEART

Going, still going
With more to come
Beyond the beyond
New horizons abound.

Like a child with
Nothing to mend

Nothing to defend
Going on without end.

From wonder to wonder
Awake
So be it

Amen.


Best to you and blessings on your own good works.

lou

Hello Lou,

I meant to circle back on this comment at some point, but it slipped my mind. Thanks for sharing the poem. It reminds me of this - "Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein." Of course there is a deeper esoteric meaning connected with such verses.

There probably isn't much to say apart from what Federica has also mentioned. The only thing is we should be clear that we are doing something inwardly when we think-write the above in bold - "it was an error". What are we doing? We are using the intellect, our understanding, our discriminatory judgment, our reasoning which senses a hierarchical value structure in which some formulations of truth are prioritized over others, etc. What we try to point out often to those who feel they experienced a 'peace beyond understanding' is they are still living with this inner contradiction, as we all are to one extent or another. What we are doing inwardly is always somewhat misaligned with what we are consciously feeling, thinking about, saying, writing. As long we are more focused on the truth content or the feeling content of our formulations and not also the act of formulating, we are polarized. These are exactly the poles which we can strive to spiral together into closer harmony, in the wake of the Christ event, and it won't happen fully for any of us in this lifetime. In fact, it helps to also pray that we will have the strength to courageously confront this task and perform it in our next lifetime.

What blocks us from performing this task? Mostly it's pride, vanity, and generally qualities which make us feel 'above' it in some way. We feel instinctively insulted when someone suggests it still needs to be performed, although we might not admit feeling this way. None of us are immune. It's exactly when we feel we have transcended these soul-dynamics that we are most vulnerable to them.

I hope that your stay in the hospice continues to be an enjoyable learning experience!
"Most people would sooner regard themselves as a piece of lava in the moon than as an 'I'"
User avatar
Federica
Posts: 1741
Joined: Sat May 14, 2022 2:30 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: A Polar Comparison of the Buddha and the Christ

Post by Federica »

Lou Gold wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2023 10:01 am
Federica wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2023 7:16 am
Lou Gold wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2023 5:08 am

Thank YOU Federica,

I want you to believe that I know that you respect me and I do not perceive your confrontations as rude. Indeed, I truly value them in my process of discovering how to communicate from a heart space that opens the possibility of transcending mere polarization. Please do not let the fact that I'm 'dying' - whatever that means - cause you to back off. I value the authenticity of your willingness to express who you are. It's well worth my appreciation and gratitude.

Thank you, Lou, and I know that you know :)
Besides, well we are all 'dying', I am not backing off because of that.
Rather, the reason is that I think that in order to transcend mere polarization, you should move on from playing.

No matter if it's for one day, one year, ten years, or beyond that you will spend on this Earth.
But this I have already tried to express in various ways since we met, with no success, which is why I'm saying that I am not wise enough to further repurpose my comments on "realization beyond the stories of realization" in any useful way.


Thank you, Federica,

Guess I've just got this 'young at heart' thing going, which is hardly inappropriate when challenged by late stage heart failure. Perhaps what you call 'playing' I call 'performing' but I assure you it's not a playpen. Just me doing the best I can with the help of lots of friends. As I quested after in my "Perhaps" poem, it's like a "work party or a festa of children." Right now I'm a happy camper moving from wonder to wonder. Wisely or not, so be it, amen. :D But, yes, mission and purpose have entered the picture, so please stay tuned.


Yes, in practical terms, it is a sort of playpen, Lou, or sandbox, or whatever we want to call it. You say that you are not playing but performing - and surely everything else also should perform for you, bringing you "from wonder to wonder", be it a picture, a flower, a poem, or even someone whom you can value for “the authenticity and willingness to express who they are". These are all beautiful cards in your card game, that you can play with indefinitely, respectful of their diversity, of course.

You might feel/think this is harmless and hardly inappropriate, and that you have earned that. But deliberately nurturing this sort of relationship to reality, below the bar of human potential, is not only decadent, in Poplawski sense, but also involutionary for your own Self, and your patterns of interference. But of course is feels more appropriate to regard what Ashvin has highlighted above as our life task as accessory, unnecessary, and philosophical, especially when one is not a philosopher.

Alright, here was today’s show. Enough of a wonder? Hopefully it's been interesting enough, at least. Entertaining, at a minimum. Probably just as unsuccessful as the previous ones in its aim, although the main reason for performing it is the wish that probability could be turned around. And also that maybe, at the same time, another reader will suddenly feel the urgency of living up to our potential coming to life. Should your trajectory keep you basking in your current feelings and opinions of choice, I hope and wish that at least, as Ashvin says, you will be inspired to “pray that we will have the strength to courageously confront this task and perform it in our next lifetime.”
In this epoch we have to be fighters for the spirit: man must realise what his powers can give way to, unless they are kept constantly under control for the conquest of the spiritual world. In this fifth epoch, man is entitled to his freedom to the highest degree! He has to go through that.
User avatar
Lou Gold
Posts: 2025
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:18 pm

Re: A Polar Comparison of the Buddha and the Christ

Post by Lou Gold »

AshvinP wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2023 10:59 am
Lou Gold wrote: Sat Mar 11, 2023 12:38 am
AshvinP wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 9:17 pm


Lou,

Instead of going into a long-winded reply with a bunch of 'boring' details here, let me ask a question to illustrate my overall point - if we were to start with the 'view of balance' or 'communion and connection that transcends time', with the formulation of both sitting at the fulcrum AND continuing to evolve with the times, what is the next step for deeper understanding of these individualities-teachings and their critical roles in our spiritual evolution?
Aloha Ashvin, thanks for the simple question.

Please accept my standard caveat that I'm not a philosopher, saint, sage or spiritual teacher. My only claim to bits of wisdom is a bundle of mistakes. My essential nature has long been to perform as a storyteller. The fulcrum experience I've had is a 'peace beyond understanding'. I have regularly left that silent tranquility when my heart is captured by the possibility of helping to reduce the suffering beyond my individual experiences. I'm learning gradually how to meld movement and repose, action and peace. Times change. I passed through various activisms aimed at reducing suffering: personal individuation and growth, social justice, peace movement, environmental conservation, religious freedom, charity for souls and, most recently, reducing the fear of dying in a death phobic culture. My next step is always to be here now learning and doing the best I can. I recently had my 85th birthday, which turned out to be (despite my hospice condition) the best experience of my life. Leading up to it, I completed a very short poem:

JOURNEY OF HEART

Going, still going
With more to come
Beyond the beyond
New horizons abound.

Like a child with
Nothing to mend

Nothing to defend
Going on without end.

From wonder to wonder
Awake
So be it

Amen.


Best to you and blessings on your own good works.

lou

Hello Lou,

I meant to circle back on this comment at some point, but it slipped my mind. Thanks for sharing the poem. It reminds me of this - "Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein." Of course there is a deeper esoteric meaning connected with such verses.

There probably isn't much to say apart from what Federica has also mentioned. The only thing is we should be clear that we are doing something inwardly when we think-write the above in bold - "it was an error". What are we doing? We are using the intellect, our understanding, our discriminatory judgment, our reasoning which senses a hierarchical value structure in which some formulations of truth are prioritized over others, etc. What we try to point out often to those who feel they experienced a 'peace beyond understanding' is they are still living with this inner contradiction, as we all are to one extent or another. What we are doing inwardly is always somewhat misaligned with what we are consciously feeling, thinking about, saying, writing. As long we are more focused on the truth content or the feeling content of our formulations and not also the act of formulating, we are polarized. These are exactly the poles which we can strive to spiral together into closer harmony, in the wake of the Christ event, and it won't happen fully for any of us in this lifetime. In fact, it helps to also pray that we will have the strength to courageously confront this task and perform it in our next lifetime.

What blocks us from performing this task? Mostly it's pride, vanity, and generally qualities which make us feel 'above' it in some way. We feel instinctively insulted when someone suggests it still needs to be performed, although we might not admit feeling this way. None of us are immune. It's exactly when we feel we have transcended these soul-dynamics that we are most vulnerable to them.

I hope that your stay in the hospice continues to be an enjoyable learning experience!
I meant to circle back on this comment at some point, but it slipped my mind. Thanks for sharing the poem. It reminds me of this - "Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein." Of course there is a deeper esoteric meaning connected with such verses.

Aloha Ashvin, thanks for circling back and for the cautionary comments about pride. YES, there's a deeper meaning. I'm reminded of Shunryū Suzuki's notion of a beginner's mind not burdened by 'knowings'.

Reconsidering my phrase "it was an error" seems awkwardly off-balance. Sorry about that but I do love the fulcrum metaphor. I imagine that still point where the arms holding the scales and the center post connect, where there is no up or down movement, where there is no higher/lower, just profound balance. I think of Jesus saying "the sign of the Father is movement and repose. I think of Rumi saying, "beyond notions of right-doing and wrong-doing, there is a field. I would like to meet you there." I've had glimpses but I've surely not realized a steady stillness. Perhaps it will come someday somewhere but for now I must rely, as does Federica, on the descriptions offered by the realized ones. Ramana Maharshi famously reported that his consciousness was "like being fully awake in a deep dreamless sleep." Yes, my appreciation of that "passeth understanding." It remains aspirational and hence intellectual. I do agree when Federica says "we are all dying." I would only want to add, "and we are all being reborn" moment-to-moment throughout incarnations of being. As my poem suggests, "from wonder to wonder."

I should note that 'hospice' is an American form of palliative care provided at home rather than in an expensive impersonal hospital where resources are better focused where cure is possible. It's better for both the insurance companies and the clients and, in my experience, much appreciated.
Last edited by Lou Gold on Mon Mar 13, 2023 9:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Be calm - Be clear - See the faults - See the suffering - Give your love
User avatar
Lou Gold
Posts: 2025
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:18 pm

Re: A Polar Comparison of the Buddha and the Christ

Post by Lou Gold »

A poem and image, offered with thanks...

all in a day’s work
while philosophers pick things apart
and poets put them back together
we pick up bits and pieces
hoping to do the best we can
god knows we must pay attention
and thank god sometimes we do

the sun rising beyond my window
says rebirth is here now
praise and glory be

Image
Be calm - Be clear - See the faults - See the suffering - Give your love
User avatar
AshvinP
Posts: 5479
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:00 am
Location: USA

Re: A Polar Comparison of the Buddha and the Christ

Post by AshvinP »

Lou Gold wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2023 9:30 pm Aloha Ashvin, thanks for circling back and for the cautionary comments about pride. YES, there's a deeper meaning. I'm reminded of Shunryū Suzuki's notion of a beginner's mind not burdened by 'knowings'.

Reconsidering my phrase "it was an error" seems awkwardly off-balance. Sorry about that but I do love the fulcrum metaphor. I imagine that still point where the arms holding the scales and the center post connect, where there is no up or down movement, where there is no higher/lower, just profound balance. I think of Jesus saying "the sign of the Father is movement and repose. I think of Rumi saying, "beyond notions of right-doing and wrong-doing, there is a field. I would like to meet you there." I've had glimpses but I've surely not realized a steady stillness. Perhaps it will come someday somewhere but for now I must rely, as does Federica, on the descriptions offered by the realized ones. Ramana Maharshi famously reported that his consciousness was "like being fully awake in a deep dreamless sleep." Yes, my appreciation of that "passeth understanding." It remains aspirational and hence intellectual. I do agree when Federica says "we are all dying." I would only want to add, "and we are all being reborn" moment-to-moment throughout incarnations of being. As my poem suggests, "from wonder to wonder."

We often point out here that awakening in dreams and dreamless sleep can be realized by people now, as long as we sacrifice the expectation that it's something which will happen to us, someday or somewhere. It's not so much that the phrasing is incorrect - the spiritual powers do indeed approach us, rather than us forcing them to reveal by our will or thought - but that the expectant, entitled, dependent, and therefore passive inner disposition is not something which attracts them. The world of deep sleep is filled with spiritually luminous, warm, and creatively responsible beings - they want us to realize our full potential and join their ranks. In that sense, it is only we who stand in our own way to the deeper realizations. And the first realization is to become more conscious of how precisely we are standing in our own way. Lamenting about it in the abstract will do us no good and may only drive us deeper into passivity. Instead we should seek the understanding, love, and wisdom which allows us to actively discern and untangle the knots of our own being as they manifest in our daily lives, so that the Spirit finds more straight paths to inflow.

"The voice of one crying in the wilderness:
“Prepare the way of the Lord;
Make straight in the desert
A highway for our God.
Every valley shall be exalted
And every mountain and hill brought low;
The crooked places shall be made straight
And the rough places smooth;
The glory of the Lord shall be revealed,
And all flesh shall see it together;
For the mouth of the Lord has spoken.”


I should note that 'hospice' is an American form of palliative care provided at home rather than in an expensive impersonal hospital where resources are better focused where cure is possible. It's better for both the insurance companies and the clients and, in my experience, much appreciated.

That's great you are able to remain at home. I would certainly make the same choice.
"Most people would sooner regard themselves as a piece of lava in the moon than as an 'I'"
User avatar
Lou Gold
Posts: 2025
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:18 pm

Re: A Polar Comparison of the Buddha and the Christ

Post by Lou Gold »

AshvinP wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2023 12:11 am
Lou Gold wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2023 9:30 pm Aloha Ashvin, thanks for circling back and for the cautionary comments about pride. YES, there's a deeper meaning. I'm reminded of Shunryū Suzuki's notion of a beginner's mind not burdened by 'knowings'.

Reconsidering my phrase "it was an error" seems awkwardly off-balance. Sorry about that but I do love the fulcrum metaphor. I imagine that still point where the arms holding the scales and the center post connect, where there is no up or down movement, where there is no higher/lower, just profound balance. I think of Jesus saying "the sign of the Father is movement and repose. I think of Rumi saying, "beyond notions of right-doing and wrong-doing, there is a field. I would like to meet you there." I've had glimpses but I've surely not realized a steady stillness. Perhaps it will come someday somewhere but for now I must rely, as does Federica, on the descriptions offered by the realized ones. Ramana Maharshi famously reported that his consciousness was "like being fully awake in a deep dreamless sleep." Yes, my appreciation of that "passeth understanding." It remains aspirational and hence intellectual. I do agree when Federica says "we are all dying." I would only want to add, "and we are all being reborn" moment-to-moment throughout incarnations of being. As my poem suggests, "from wonder to wonder."

We often point out here that awakening in dreams and dreamless sleep can be realized by people now, as long as we sacrifice the expectation that it's something which will happen to us, someday or somewhere. It's not so much that the phrasing is incorrect - the spiritual powers do indeed approach us, rather than us forcing them to reveal by our will or thought - but that the expectant, entitled, dependent, and therefore passive inner disposition is not something which attracts them. The world of deep sleep is filled with spiritually luminous, warm, and creatively responsible beings - they want us to realize our full potential and join their ranks. In that sense, it is only we who stand in our own way to the deeper realizations. And the first realization is to become more conscious of how precisely we are standing in our own way. Lamenting about it in the abstract will do us no good and may only drive us deeper into passivity. Instead we should seek the understanding, love, and wisdom which allows us to actively discern and untangle the knots of our own being as they manifest in our daily lives, so that the Spirit finds more straight paths to inflow.

"The voice of one crying in the wilderness:
“Prepare the way of the Lord;
Make straight in the desert
A highway for our God.
Every valley shall be exalted
And every mountain and hill brought low;
The crooked places shall be made straight
And the rough places smooth;
The glory of the Lord shall be revealed,
And all flesh shall see it together;
For the mouth of the Lord has spoken.”


I should note that 'hospice' is an American form of palliative care provided at home rather than in an expensive impersonal hospital where resources are better focused where cure is possible. It's better for both the insurance companies and the clients and, in my experience, much appreciated.

That's great you are able to remain at home. I would certainly make the same choice.
Oh, I agree about preparing for one's spiritual evolution and working to clear away one's own blockages. Who is it who you see as standing in her/his own way, lamenting in the abstract or being passive? Dreams are incredibly important, life-changing for me. Sometimes, all that's needed to trigger change is sincerely admitting that something is possible. Sometimes it requires more targeted work and cleaning/clearing. I see myself as a work in progress and hope everyone here holds a similar self-view. Along the way, I love to create poems and images and share stories -- to be a maker as well as a taker. I call it "having fun" but I don't mean to imply that there's no work involved.
Be calm - Be clear - See the faults - See the suffering - Give your love
User avatar
AshvinP
Posts: 5479
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:00 am
Location: USA

Re: A Polar Comparison of the Buddha and the Christ

Post by AshvinP »

Lou Gold wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2023 12:42 am
AshvinP wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2023 12:11 am
Lou Gold wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2023 9:30 pm Aloha Ashvin, thanks for circling back and for the cautionary comments about pride. YES, there's a deeper meaning. I'm reminded of Shunryū Suzuki's notion of a beginner's mind not burdened by 'knowings'.

Reconsidering my phrase "it was an error" seems awkwardly off-balance. Sorry about that but I do love the fulcrum metaphor. I imagine that still point where the arms holding the scales and the center post connect, where there is no up or down movement, where there is no higher/lower, just profound balance. I think of Jesus saying "the sign of the Father is movement and repose. I think of Rumi saying, "beyond notions of right-doing and wrong-doing, there is a field. I would like to meet you there." I've had glimpses but I've surely not realized a steady stillness. Perhaps it will come someday somewhere but for now I must rely, as does Federica, on the descriptions offered by the realized ones. Ramana Maharshi famously reported that his consciousness was "like being fully awake in a deep dreamless sleep." Yes, my appreciation of that "passeth understanding." It remains aspirational and hence intellectual. I do agree when Federica says "we are all dying." I would only want to add, "and we are all being reborn" moment-to-moment throughout incarnations of being. As my poem suggests, "from wonder to wonder."

We often point out here that awakening in dreams and dreamless sleep can be realized by people now, as long as we sacrifice the expectation that it's something which will happen to us, someday or somewhere. It's not so much that the phrasing is incorrect - the spiritual powers do indeed approach us, rather than us forcing them to reveal by our will or thought - but that the expectant, entitled, dependent, and therefore passive inner disposition is not something which attracts them. The world of deep sleep is filled with spiritually luminous, warm, and creatively responsible beings - they want us to realize our full potential and join their ranks. In that sense, it is only we who stand in our own way to the deeper realizations. And the first realization is to become more conscious of how precisely we are standing in our own way. Lamenting about it in the abstract will do us no good and may only drive us deeper into passivity. Instead we should seek the understanding, love, and wisdom which allows us to actively discern and untangle the knots of our own being as they manifest in our daily lives, so that the Spirit finds more straight paths to inflow.

"The voice of one crying in the wilderness:
“Prepare the way of the Lord;
Make straight in the desert
A highway for our God.
Every valley shall be exalted
And every mountain and hill brought low;
The crooked places shall be made straight
And the rough places smooth;
The glory of the Lord shall be revealed,
And all flesh shall see it together;
For the mouth of the Lord has spoken.”


I should note that 'hospice' is an American form of palliative care provided at home rather than in an expensive impersonal hospital where resources are better focused where cure is possible. It's better for both the insurance companies and the clients and, in my experience, much appreciated.

That's great you are able to remain at home. I would certainly make the same choice.
Oh, I agree about preparing for one's spiritual evolution and working to clear away one's own blockages. Who is it who you see as standing in her/his own way, lamenting in the abstract or being passive? Dreams are incredibly important, life-changing for me. Sometimes, all that's needed to trigger change is sincerely admitting that something is possible. Sometimes it requires more targeted work and cleaning/clearing. I see myself as a work in progress and hope everyone here holds a similar self-view. Along the way, I love to create poems and images and share stories -- to be a maker as well as a taker. I call it "having fun" but I don't mean to imply that there's no work involved.

Me! And I can only recognize it in others to the extent I recognize it in myself, in ever increasing measure. Every version of 'me' I thought to be concrete, active, courageous, accepting responsibility, without excuse, has been much less so than imagined, without fail. It's not only that I see myself as not having reached the ideal yet, but I discern more and more ways in which I am actively working against against the ideal. And at every such realization it is tempting to feel, 'ok now I have cleared out those demons and it's a matter of growing straight towards the Divine'. It's actually remarkable how many times we can fall for the same tricks that we play on ourselves.

Since you are a spiritual poet, you may appreciate, and perhaps even employ, this prayer that I just now came across while reading, and which seems to fit this conversation perfectly.

"Not more of light I ask, O God,

But eyes to see what is.

Not sweeter songs, but ears to hear

The present melodies.

Not more of strength, but how to use

The power that I possess.

Not more of love, but skill to turn

A frown to a caress.

Not more of joy, but how to feel

Its kindling presence near,

To give to others all I have

Of courage and of cheer.

No other gifts, dear God, I ask,

But only sense to see

How best those precious gifts to use

Thou hast bestowed on me.

Give me all fears to dominate,

All holy joys to know,

To be the friend I wish to be,

To speak the truth I know,

To love the pure, to seek the good,

To lift with all my might

All souls to dwell in harmony,

In freedom's perfect light."
"Most people would sooner regard themselves as a piece of lava in the moon than as an 'I'"
Post Reply