Anthony66 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 4:09 amRupert Spira is fond of the metaphor of Mary and Jane. In it, Mary falls asleep and dreams she is Jane in the streets of London. Jane experience herself as a separate self, but when she starts investigating who she really is, she finds out she is not a separate self (Jane) in London, but that she was Mary all the time. Everything was just Mary, including all the objects and other subjects in London. All was just a dream in Mary's mind.Cleric K wrote: ↑Thu Apr 13, 2023 7:52 pmHigher being in this case refers simply to a perspective which experiences the intellectual self as its suit, so to speak. Of course, there are levels but in this particular case it was used in a more general manner.
This is a good question and hints at the difficulties we encounter when we try to have a clear intellectual definition of "what I am". I would say that the second form - thinking united with the higher being - is better but it really depends on what exactly one implies. How would you describe this unity?
This partly gets at the issue but it does flatten things into "everything was just Mary". The dynamics of Jane's mind in the context of Mary's mind are left largely unaccounted for. The "non-dual awakening" of Jane happens either when Mary awakens from sleep and so destroys Jane or perhaps when a level of lucid-dreaming occurs.
Anthony,
If Jane is to awaken to her existence as Mary, then what does this mean? Mary doesn't only 'destroy' Jane, but comes to understand why and how Jane experienced herself as this separate dream personality (assuming Mary lucidly remembers the dreaming). Everything which occurred within the dream is understood as archetypal symbols for higher-order spiritual activity. Perhaps the dream narrative of wandering through a never-ending maze with weird creatures is understood as the symbol of a Mary's childhood experience of getting lost from her parents in a mall with strangers. Does the nondual awakening result in a similar precise understanding of wandering through the maze of normal Earthly life? I had asked Eugene before for a written example from someone who had so awakened, which could give us more confidence in such a conclusion. Can you provide that?