Meditation

[Cleric K]

Cleric,

Thanks for sharing this valuable insight. This is something I have been thinking about lately, especially since I came across one of your previous posts where you spoke about experimenting with mushrooms after some time. You mentioned that there wasn't a noticeable change in your mode of consciousness, even though some of psychedelic visual effects remained.

I can't say that I am quite following your reasoning for the "no" above, though. Let's say that we focus on developing healthy and pure spiritual habits of WFT conduct. Now, without deviating from those habits, we complement them by adjusting our diet in ways that could help loosen the bodies, for ex. by microdosing mushrooms (or perhaps using CBD?). What would be the risk here? It seems the primary risk with such things is developing an overreliance on them to the point where we feel our ordinary self is no longer up to the task by uniting faithfully with the Christ impulse, as you pointed out. But, as you also pointed out, we could theoretically say that about any changes in body-soul-spirit habits and routines that we make on the path of higher development. Maybe I develop an overreliance on taking a walk outside in nature every day. Is there something that particularly increases the risk when it comes to ingesting these sorts of substances, even in microdoses without the 'high'?

As I said, I simply can't see into the full consequences of such micro usage so I don't know if they can be used as a supplement in a healthy way. Certainly, the primary concern is the overreliance that you mention. We humans are in general so weak that such concerns shouldn't be dismissed lightly. Such reliance can build up slowly and unnoticeably.

Another thing that I can confirm from my experience is that each substance (I have experience only with natural sources - plants and mushrooms, not with synthetics) connects us with elemental beings and the group soul of the plant/mushroom. This is well confirmed by almost everyone with extensive experience with such things in more spiritual settings. They speak of Mother Ayahuasca, the Spirit of the Mushroom and so on. In the Cosmos, where everything is reflected in everything, there's no such thing as 'just a substance'. Through it we enter into relations with the whole chain of beings through which the substance can exist.

Terrence McKenna has spoken about the mushroom as a Cosmic spirit that disseminates its spores into worlds. Then as the mushrooms are consumed by beings with sufficiently developed consciousness, such as humans, they become practically organs through which the mushroom spirit reflects its own consciousness. This is of course presented by TM in a very twisted way and it looks like this mushroom spirit is the original creator of life. This only shows how one-sided the conclusions can be from such experiences unsubstantiated by deeper self-knowledge. But nevertheless, I think there's truth to the idea that these group beings seek their consciousness through human beings that consume them.

In any case, the effects of the plants and mushrooms always has e specific tint, there's something characteristic present in the aura of the experience. I guess that even with micro dosing, such specific hue will be present as constant background, which reflects our union with the group being. Whether this is very detrimental - I don't know.

It is interesting what DMT's case could be (which I have no experience with), since it is present endogenously in us. We're only increasing its concentration so to speak. But as said, there's no such thing as 'just a substance'. I would guess that even then we become united with certain Ahr spirits, which are responsible for the whole development of chemistry, leading to the ability to synthesize this molecule in the laboratory.

[Federica]

the 'intrusive' character of the images results precisely from the fact that they have not yet been brought under the harmonizing influence of our "I"-consciousness. It is sort of like what we would experience if thoughts were just popping into our head without any ability to organize them into coherent ideas. It simply means we have more work to do in strengthening our "I"-consciousness via spiritual exercises.

Thanks! This will hopefully help me move past the sort of ‘ten meter platform’ situation, where I am implicitly declining the experience of my own thought flow being ‘overridden from outside’. Then it’s easy to find confirmation of this fearful instinct in what Steiner says about the dangers of developing the cognitive states.

Here a small note may be useful. It's worth mentioning that we as human beings are not yet fully creative in the higher worlds, even if gone through high degree of spiritual development. In that sense, it may have paralyzing effect if we expect that we can control the Imaginative experiences in a way similar to our thoughts. In a certain sense we are always within these experiences, they have life of their own and we flow through them.

Actually, what we experience as Imaginations is what the Angel Imagines in us. In true Imagination we become concentric with the Angelic consciousness. Metaphorically, we can say that the Angelic being leads us as if through a museum exhibition. Our state metamorphoses through the curvatures the Angel shapes while we follow everything with our expanded thoughts, which repeat the movements of the environment so to say, and can in turn focus down concepts. It is normal that this thinking which focuses down the concepts should feel as our own. The Angel doesn't override this! Every level of being is responsible for their part. We're led through the transformation but the focusing down of the intuitive context feels as the part where we're doing our part.

This doesn't mean that we have no say about the trip we're going through. It's just that our say can only be in form of prayer, as a sacred dialog. We can ask questions, we can ask to be led in a certain chamber of the museum where specific things may be revealed. Furthermore, it is precisely through such kind of prayerful attuning that we unite with one or another Angel in order to live in Imaginations as they see them when they look through our being. This last bit is important. We shouldn't immediately conclude that what we thus experience represents what Angelic consciousness is like in general. Instead, this is what Angelic consciousness is when it unites with the human complex. The Imaginative forms in which the Angel can think through us (and which we correspondingly experience as flowing through the galleries of Imaginations) are obviously dependent on our organization, our experiences and so on. The richer our inner life is, the richer the palette is through which the Angel can Imagine the higher worlds in us.

Yes, thank you Cleric, this really makes it concrete, and I feel I now have proper context to hopefully trust the process more, the next time.

[Federica]

To be honest, I don’t know if such homeopathic use could have benefits. I’m leaning towards “no”. Here’s my reasoning. We can achieve powerful loosening of the bodies through fasting. This is due to the fact that a lot of the forces that are normally sucked into the digestive process become freed and they can turn into cognitive forces. Of course, we can’t fast indefinitely. While on Earth, our physical body needs nutrition. When we see things in this way, it’s like the reverse of what we said before. We don’t eat vegetarian because it gives us better ‘spiritual high’ but because it sucks us down into the organs with less intensity, it diminishes our expanded fasting state less. In other words, the food choice should be not that it stimulates the loosening of the bodies but that it prevents it least.

Let's say that we focus on developing healthy and pure spiritual habits of WFT conduct. Now, without deviating from those habits, we complement them by adjusting our diet in ways that could help loosen the bodies, for ex. by microdosing mushrooms (or perhaps using CBD?). What would be the risk here?

I’ve seized the opportunity of Ashvin’s question as an exercise, also to look closer into my aversion to drugs. Well, I still end up with a “no”, but at least I’ve tried to look into the question dispassionately. Here’s the reasoning, do you think it works? Please any of you correct me if I’m wrong.


On the one hand, we know that meat-free nutrition is more efficient than animal-based one, since it requires less I-energy for the same amount of nutrition - it drains the I less, so the I can work more intensely on cognitive tasks. The noteworthy thing here is, veg food drains less energy because the physical body is put to spiritual work more, since it has to make flesh from plant-matter, rather than flesh from flesh (easier). Like in a family, the kids can take on some ‘working’ tasks too, they can set up the table, tidy up their room, etc. So, meat-free food gives the gross physical body a transformational-spiritual task too, it responsibilize it. Our physical incarnation is an asset, a chance for the I, and bodily metabolism (intake of substances for self-sustenance, excretions, poo, etc.) is the price to pay, the corresponding liability for the I, who has to support metabolism, while it also has to provide energy for the whole spectrum of spiritual activity.

Now, could we see a properly said psychedelic substance - one that primarily impacts the brain and doesn’t nourish the body at the same time - also a way to lessen the bodily liability (the taxing effect of metabolism on I-energy) rather than a way to stimulate loosening of the etheric body? Because psychedelics don't actively stimulate, rather, they make the physical brain less of an impediment to spiritual flow, by direct action on it.

If this is correct, then the real counter-purpose choice would be to eat vegetarian (body is less of an impediment because it does its part toward spiritual development) and then supplement the brain at the same time (we are partially lifted from the responsibility to willfully transform the brain through spiritual activity, or we could say, the body is partially impeded to contribute to spiritual-transformational work, it is seamlessly subtracted from a full turning inside out).

So, in this way, supplementing the brain could be likened to eating cerebral steaks, since psycho-active supplements make life easier for the brain, that doesn't have to be willfully transformed as much, in order to be less in the way of etheric flow.

Does it make sense?

[Cleric K]

Does it make sense?

Yes, it does. There's also another factor that I remembered.

Ideally, the loosening of the bodies has to become a conscious act. This starts by learning to relax deeply every part of the body, including the brain region, while maintaining sharp focus. We do this not simply in order to feel good but because by being very attentive to the process we can notice how certain patterns of our daily cognition are locked as tensions in certain regions of the body. In time this becomes something that we can do 'by heart'. We breathe out and loosen the bodies, then we breathe in and pack them back together. As we have spoken before, we do need the latter too. In our daily activities, we need to be tightly incarnated, especially when working in more chaotic atmosphere with many people. Otherwise we're like a sponge that collects many influences which then continue to reverberate in an aura.

And this brings us to the problem. Relying on a medicine (we can call it that because natural medicines are also foods that we don't take for their nutritional value but for other reasons) to loosen the bodies leaves us unfree. Micro dosing could result in loosened bodies even when we're in environment where we need to be packed tight. What about other cases? At the evening we may have a cup of tea, some candles, dim lights, to help us relax more. Could a tiny amount of, say, cannabis (which may not even produce particularly strong psychological effects but only help us relax more deeply and achieve more flowy state) be admissible? Well, now we may not have the problem of being open in an inappropriate environment but we still have the other problem - that some of our 'muscle' through which we consciously loosen the bodies remains undeveloped. Furthermore, as we said, this state of relaxation would still have a 'tint'. This is different from the effect of candles. The latter may helps us set the initial conditions but once we have gone deeper, they remain in the periphery. The tint however continues to be present more intimately. In the end this leads to inner conflict and we begin to wonder if it is needed. When we begin to have such inner torments it means that we won't fine peace until we go on to work with our inner muscles and be without scruples.

What do you all think about coffee? I have never been coffee drinker in my life. I've never liked the idea that I may feel dysfunctional without coffee. Nevertheless, in the last years I occasionally experiment, mainly in evenings when I have time and I would like to meditate but am otherwise sleepy. I notice that in most cases it increases alertness. I still haven't figured if this is detrimental.

[Federica]

What do you all think about coffee? I have never been coffee drinker in my life. I've never liked the idea that I may feel dysfunctional without coffee. Nevertheless, in the last years I occasionally experiment, mainly in evenings when I have time and I would like to meditate but am otherwise sleepy. I notice that in most cases it increases alertness. I still haven't figured if this is detrimental.

If I did that I would have very poor sleep I believe there's big personal variability, and also for the same person through time. When I was young I could have coffee in the evening, no problem. I've always been a coffee drinker but I'm not disfunctional without, I skip it once a week when I teach an early morning class at the gym, and if I have to get up very early to travel or something I also skip it. I don't feel a notable impact on the quality of thought, like with alcohol for example, but it makes the reception of the thoughts more 'in place' more quickly in the right slots.

This popular neuroscientist puts together super trendy morning routines and has researched coffee:

[AshvinP]

What do you all think about coffee? I have never been coffee drinker in my life. I've never liked the idea that I may feel dysfunctional without coffee. Nevertheless, in the last years I occasionally experiment, mainly in evenings when I have time and I would like to meditate but am otherwise sleepy. I notice that in most cases it increases alertness. I still haven't figured if this is detrimental.

Thank you Federica and Cleric for these comments and indications on a somewhat 'controversial' topic. I think it goes to show just how many pathways there are for us to creatively navigate once we become conscious of concrete spiritual influences weaving through our environment. Nothing is completely black and white, 'wrong' or 'right', straightforward and simple, although there are clear spiritual principles that we can attend to and live by to pursue relatively safe and healthy development. I think it's clear that, if we still sense a tendency within us to rush towards higher spiritual experiences, then it's probably best to avoid the natural medicines.

Coffee is a major habit for me right now. Usually, I have a strong cup in the morning after meditation. I used to do it before meditation and it definitely helped with concentration, but then I became worried that I would become too reliant on it and would not be able to concentrate otherwise. Instead, when it's cold outside, I stand out on the balcony in shorts and t-shirt for a while in the morning and try to incarnate the ego more forcefully that way I can still notice a big difference in my ability to concentrate with or without coffee. Hopefully, these spiral together over time. I am very hesitant to drink it in the evening because I have always had difficulty with racing thoughts at night when I am trying to sleep. Coffee (or perhaps caffeine) also has a tendency to wreak some havoc on my digestive system, but perhaps that is generally linked to an overactive intellect which caffeine makes more pronounced.

[Federica]

Ashvin, it almost looks like you could try the Wim Hof method to incarnate the ego more forcefully

[AshvinP]

Ashvin, it almost looks like you could try the Wim Hof method to incarnate the ego more forcefully

My next step to conquer is taking a cold shower, and even that makes me squirm just thinking about it

I do remember trying this breathing exercise and feeling it was helpful at the time. Although now I know it's probably not the best thing to practice too intensely in the early stages of modern spiritual practice, since it can work to condition our spiritual activity too tightly with our lower psycho-physical processes. Actually, since we have come to the topic, I would be interested to hear if Cleric has any thoughts on whether such breathing exercises can be helpful if practiced once in awhile?

[Cleric K]

Actually, since we have come to the topic, I would be interested to hear if Cleric has any thoughts on whether such breathing exercises can be helpful if practiced once in awhile?

Here we should distinguish two situations. Breathing as exercise on its own can be useful and we should certainly have some breathing tricks in our ammo pack. These are especially useful in our daily life when we need to quickly restore balance. Several slow deep breaths with freezing in concentration for a few seconds on top, are indispensable tools. It is even better when they are combined with some thoughts. I’ll paste here what I wrote to you some time ago:

1. We breathe in and at the same time think the words:
May the Divine Name be hallowed within me.
2. We hold the air and think the words:
May the Divine Kingdom come within me.
3. We exhale and at the same time think the words:
May the Divine Will be done.

Now the second situation is when we’re seeking the higher states of consciousness. In that case breathing should not be used as the primary means. Steiner has especially warned about this. Otherwise, it is relatively easy to achieve some altered form of consciousness through breathing. For example, if we breathe deeply and quickly for 20-30 seconds (hyperventilating) and then we hold the breath, freezing in concentration, we’ll certainly feel a tingling wave spreading in all directions and maybe some fleeting Imaginations. But this, just like all the other methods of forceful loosening of the bodies, can’t be used with good results for attaining higher cognition.

This doesn’t mean that breathing should be ignored. It is very important. Our whole astral body pulsates in the breathing rhythm. The thing is that the astral body should dictate the rhythm and not the intellectually motivated breathing will. I was thinking how to give a clearer example of this and the following comes as a kind of exercise.

We can imagine a small fluffy feather in our mind’s eye.



Then we can imagine the air element within us and everywhere. For simplicity, we can disregard the physical breathing apparatus and consider only the air. When we breathe in it is as if the air is sucked in from all directions towards our center (chest region). When we exhale, we do the opposite – air expands in all directions. We are like a sphere of air.

Now think of a feather like the above floating in the air. Think how even our gentlest breath carries it away. This leads us to the exercise. When we concentrate on the feather image in our mind’s eye, we try to make our breathing so slow, smooth and gentle that the feather barely moves. We should picture the pulsating air sphere caressing the feather. This would be very easy if we hold the feather in our mind as if nailed. Then we can imagine even a strong wind and it will stay in place. But we have to be very gentle. The feather should feel weightless, we shouldn’t touch it in our imagination with anything solid – only with the air.

The goal of such an exercise is to feel how we don't modify our breathing in hope that something will happen as a result but instead we work directly with the ideal and allow it to inspire the corresponding breathing. This smooth inner soul space is a necessity for proper reflection of the Imaginative. The smooth surface of the lake (or the pond from our talks) in which the mountains and stars reflect is almost a cliché, but it is nevertheless true. Yet instead of mechanically smoothing the surface, we should do that in response to the mountains and stars (or feather) that we want to behold. Thus to the question “what should my breathing be in meditation?” we should answer “whatever the soul space requires in order to manifest its rhythmic and beautiful musical forms”. And of course, one of the best exercises is breathing the light of the Sun (especially in early morning, ideally at Sunrise). With every breath we should try to feel the Divine Ideas that need to be accommodated in our soul. Once again, we should do that with openness as if we want the incoming Inspirations to entrain our breath.

[Federica]

Oh thanks, Cleric, for the breathing trick, I was at the dentist this morning I could put it to immediate use!
It has worked beyond expectations.

Ashvin, I don't know if you saw this, but with such possible effects, I would for myself be careful, even if it's just a preparation for cold water. I have clipped the relevant minute:

https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxMwjwGIyAiV ... eFCgdvTHoq