Meditation

[Federica]

I made an interesting observation (at least for myself)
that I can concentrate more deeply when I connect thought concentration with my breathing.

I come to the point where my body feels more light and my thoughts become more intense easier.

I think the exercise posted by Cleric is from OMA (correct me if im wrong), he has given a couple of breathing exercises.

Does anyone else have made the same observation?

For my part, based on what I understand from Cleric, I try to stay away from any sort of momentum that would leverage breathing to effect thinking activity. I believe the exercise above was given as a sort of emergency technique, to use in situations when equanimity couldn't be maintained.

If our feelings are all over the place and our physical body is following behind them, upset, then we can use the exercise to harness our feeling situation by involving the body in the exercise, to reestablish balance. But in a context of peaceful soul, prepared for willed thinking activity, it's best to let thinking be as free as possible from the senses. At least that's how I understood it. Otherwise, taken to its extreme, one ends up going the kundalini way.

And as I recently read on Trees and Triads' Substack we can be fairly certain that kundalini is a type of pasta served with curry sauce

Hello Federica,

I don't try to manipulate my breathing, but to follow its natural course and then match my contrentration object with it.

Steiners gave his pupils breathing exercises too, like Omraam mikhaël aïvanhov and Daskalos.
But they critique certain forms of breathing exercises.

For example do you think that the exercise of breathing light (visualization of light connected with the breathing) would be harmful?

Why would OMA gave his pupils potential harmful exercises?

But I agree that it wouldn't be beneficial to do Wim hof type exercises.

Hey Güney,

I don't know the breathing light exercise. If you have a link at hand, I would like to read it. But I'm sure that, in the way it was given by OMA and Steiner (I don't know Daskalos), it is not harmful. Yet, there may ba a proper and an improper way to understand the instructions. Not saying that you are getting them wrong, of course.

However, in general, let's face it: there is always a possibility of potential harm, if exercises and instructions are not understood and applied wisely. Steiner has warned about these risks at various levels. I know OMA less, but I can imagine he also did it. In a way, it's a luck, because it means we are free, and we are adults. I would like to quote from Esoteric Lesson n. 19, GA 266:

An esoteric should realize what he is really doing with the exercises that are given to us. We've often mentioned that an esoteric is trying to loosen the etheric body and in general the four bodies from each other. This can happen in an esoteric and an exoteric way.

One can prepare the physical body sufficiently through diet, breathing exercises, etc. so that it ejects or squeezes out the etheric body. Our vegetarian way of living is basically intended to support the physical body in this striving. These are exoteric ways to loosen the bodies. The esoteric ones are our exercises. And here one has to say that the latter are the main thing. In our materialistic age many a materialist would gladly follow the most extensive dietary rules, would do breathing exercises for hours if he could attain something that way. To exert oneself spiritually is much more inconvenient, and here the spiritual inertia often becomes evident.

If we would squeeze out our etheric body by merely physical means the physical body couldn't give it anything to take with it, and it would go out into the unknown empty. Then states arise where for instance we can't grasp something with our thinking when we want to think it through. Our etheric brain can't use the physical one properly. It's as if we were swimming in water and wanted to grab something that kept on eluding us. Under such conditions a sensible esoteric will tell himself that he must first create order here through suitable willed concentrations and thought exercises. Even in normal development some things will arise of which we must tell ourselves that it's a temporary suffering. For through the pulling out of the etheric body and physical body undergoes something similar to a plant that has its sap withheld from it for awhile. It dries up. And although one doesn't see it physically, part of the physical body dries up and if it has predispositions for diseases, they appear. But if the etheric body has permeated itself rightly with spiritual truths it thereby receives new forces, and they have a healing effect on the physical body. One can observe that cuts and other wounds in the physical body heal more easily if the man permeates himself with spiritual truths or if he just lets the theosophical way of thinking work on him.

In other words - as Cleric and Ashvin have often described - we are aiming at the loosening of the etheric body from the physical. The etheric body, [Ben, you have wondered about that] among other things, keeps together and alive the physical elements of our physical body, making the difference between our body now, and our body as the decomposing corpse it will become in the future.

This means, as I understand it: we are trying to lift them apart from each other a little bit, so that they are not perfectly in the shadow of each other, and we can distinguish a little more clearly the etheric background of our spiritual activity from the normally perceived end-thought-images, coalescing at the surface level (brain) of our consciousness.

However, this process is potentially harmful. If you unstick ever so slightly the physical body from its etheric source of lifeblood, the physical will suffer. It will start to dry up, as Steiner says. It will be exposed to decomposing forces, to exaggerate a little.

So it's important to do this operation in controlled, willed way, initiating the process esoterically - from within sense-free thinking expansion - rather than forcing it from without, in unconsciousness, by altering the physical body, be it with breathing, drugs, hot baths, or any other external aids. In the former case, we are consciously driving the process, in the latter case we are enduring the same effect, but it falls on our head, so to say. Instead of taking the controlled path - we are awake in thinking, we can control and direct the transformation of our experience - we take the detour that goes through the mystery of the bodily will (remember, as Ashvin often say, at our present stage of human evolution, we are unconscious in Will, dreaming/half-conscious in Feeling, and fully awake only in Thinking).


This is also an answer to Soloma's:

...I suspect the use of aids around here is frowned upon. Why I do not know, it did not hold me back from being lifted up by God back in October, to each their own of course. In other words, I found great benefit from the use of visualizing white light, both for relief of health issues as well as a way to trigger OBE.

It's not about frowning upon the use of aids. In a sense, we have to use aids, we have to eat, and we have to decide to navigate this and not that physical environmment with our body all the time, and our choices have more or less intense effects on our entire constitution. It's only about not relying primarily on unconscious bodily stimulation (unconscious in the way it works) to obtain spiritual results, because we risk not to understand them properly, or not at all. Former humans, at previous stages of evolution, did not have the awake state that we now have in our Thinking. They were dreaming allthroughout the spectrum of their becoming. Now we have this possiblity open for development. We are finally free to realize it, and that's where we should go. In this epoch, we are far from mastering from within the physical laws of transformation, and pass through walls, so we can only be innerly unconscious in those effects induced through physical aids.

As a rough metaphor, it's like those people who think they can get fit and improve their athletic performances using EMS (Electric Muscle Stimulation). Surely, the muscle mass will grow, but they won't 'know' how to use that extra energy potential in practice, when that power has not been obtained through actually developing the skill, exercising the athletic activity with full physical and intentional engagement.

[Güney27]

For my part, based on what I understand from Cleric, I try to stay away from any sort of momentum that would leverage breathing to effect thinking activity. I believe the exercise above was given as a sort of emergency technique, to use in situations when equanimity couldn't be maintained.

If our feelings are all over the place and our physical body is following behind them, upset, then we can use the exercise to harness our feeling situation by involving the body in the exercise, to reestablish balance. But in a context of peaceful soul, prepared for willed thinking activity, it's best to let thinking be as free as possible from the senses. At least that's how I understood it. Otherwise, taken to its extreme, one ends up going the kundalini way.

And as I recently read on Trees and Triads' Substack we can be fairly certain that kundalini is a type of pasta served with curry sauce

Hello Federica,

I don't try to manipulate my breathing, but to follow its natural course and then match my contrentration object with it.

Steiners gave his pupils breathing exercises too, like Omraam mikhaël aïvanhov and Daskalos.
But they critique certain forms of breathing exercises.

For example do you think that the exercise of breathing light (visualization of light connected with the breathing) would be harmful?

Why would OMA gave his pupils potential harmful exercises?

But I agree that it wouldn't be beneficial to do Wim hof type exercises.

Hey Güney,

I don't know the breathing light exercise. If you have a link at hand, I would like to read it. But I'm sure that, in the way it was given by OMA and Steiner (I don't know Daskalos), it is not harmful. Yet, there may ba a proper and an improper way to understand the instructions. Not saying that you are getting them wrong, of course.

However, in general, let's face it: there is always a possibility of potential harm, if exercises and instructions are not understood and applied wisely. Steiner has warned about these risks at various levels. I know OMA less, but I can imagine he also did it. In a way, it's a luck, because it means we are free, and we are adults. I would like to quote from Esoteric Lesson n. 19, GA 266:

An esoteric should realize what he is really doing with the exercises that are given to us. We've often mentioned that an esoteric is trying to loosen the etheric body and in general the four bodies from each other. This can happen in an esoteric and an exoteric way.

One can prepare the physical body sufficiently through diet, breathing exercises, etc. so that it ejects or squeezes out the etheric body. Our vegetarian way of living is basically intended to support the physical body in this striving. These are exoteric ways to loosen the bodies. The esoteric ones are our exercises. And here one has to say that the latter are the main thing. In our materialistic age many a materialist would gladly follow the most extensive dietary rules, would do breathing exercises for hours if he could attain something that way. To exert oneself spiritually is much more inconvenient, and here the spiritual inertia often becomes evident.

If we would squeeze out our etheric body by merely physical means the physical body couldn't give it anything to take with it, and it would go out into the unknown empty. Then states arise where for instance we can't grasp something with our thinking when we want to think it through. Our etheric brain can't use the physical one properly. It's as if we were swimming in water and wanted to grab something that kept on eluding us. Under such conditions a sensible esoteric will tell himself that he must first create order here through suitable willed concentrations and thought exercises. Even in normal development some things will arise of which we must tell ourselves that it's a temporary suffering. For through the pulling out of the etheric body and physical body undergoes something similar to a plant that has its sap withheld from it for awhile. It dries up. And although one doesn't see it physically, part of the physical body dries up and if it has predispositions for diseases, they appear. But if the etheric body has permeated itself rightly with spiritual truths it thereby receives new forces, and they have a healing effect on the physical body. One can observe that cuts and other wounds in the physical body heal more easily if the man permeates himself with spiritual truths or if he just lets the theosophical way of thinking work on him.

In other words - as Cleric and Ashvin have often described - we are aiming at the loosening of the etheric body from the physical. The etheric body, [Ben, you have wondered about that] among other things, keeps together and alive the physical elements of our physical body, making the difference between our body now, and our body as the decomposing corpse it will become in the future.

This means, as I understand it: we are trying to lift them apart from each other a little bit, so that they are not perfectly in the shadow of each other, and we can distinguish a little more clearly the etheric background of our spiritual activity from the normally perceived end-thought-images, coalescing at the surface level (brain) of our consciousness.

However, this process is potentially harmful. If you unstick ever so slightly the physical body from its etheric source of lifeblood, the physical will suffer. It will start to dry up, as Steiner says. It will be exposed to decomposing forces, to exaggerate a little.

So it's important to do this operation in controlled, willed way, initiating the process esoterically - from within sense-free thinking expansion - rather than forcing it from without, in unconsciousness, by altering the physical body, be it with breathing, drugs, hot baths, or any other external aids. In the former case, we are consciously driving the process, in the latter case we are enduring the same effect, but it falls on our head, so to say. Instead of taking the controlled path - we are awake in thinking, we can control and direct the transformation of our experience - we take the detour that goes through the mystery of the bodily will (remember, as Ashvin often say, at our present stage of human evolution, we are unconscious in Will, dreaming/half-conscious in Feeling, and fully awake only in Thinking).


This is also an answer to Soloma's:

...I suspect the use of aids around here is frowned upon. Why I do not know, it did not hold me back from being lifted up by God back in October, to each their own of course. In other words, I found great benefit from the use of visualizing white light, both for relief of health issues as well as a way to trigger OBE.

It's not about frowning upon the use of aids. In a sense, we have to use aids, we have to eat, and we have to decide to navigate this and not that physical environmment with our body all the time, and our choices have more or less intense effects on our entire constitution. It's only about not relying primarily on unconscious bodily stimulation (unconscious in the way it works) to obtain spiritual results, because we risk not to understand them properly, or not at all. Former humans, at previous stages of evolution, did not have the awake state that we now have in our Thinking. They were dreaming allthroughout the spectrum of their becoming. Now we have this possiblity open for development. We are finally free to realize it, and that's where we should go. In this epoch, we are far from mastering from within the physical laws of transformation, and pass through walls, so we can only be innerly unconscious in those effects induced through physical aids.

As a rough metaphor, it's like those people who think they can get fit and improve their athletic performances using EMS (Electric Muscle Stimulation). Surely, the muscle mass will grow, but they won't 'know' how to use that extra energy potential in practice, when that power has not been obtained through actually developing the skill, exercising the athletic activity with full physical and intentional engagement.

Thank you Federica.

In my meditation today I had reached a point where my body feels very paralyzed, almost like it will dissappear when I go further. Before that I saw colors (mixture of yellow and green) moving in a certain pattern.

The problem is to stay calm in those moments, it really difficult, because my heart beats faster and fear comes with that. It comes automatically.

Do you can relate to the above, in your own meditation practice?

I'm really curious about what will happen when I don't stop meditation after this point.


Ps: today I did a concentration exercise on mantra (given from steiner).

[AshvinP]

If anyone is interested in the Gateway material, I recently listed it to mega-upload for download by folks on my sub. Id be happy to provide the link here but I suspect the use of aids around here is frowned upon. Why I do not know, it did not hold me back from being lifted up by God back in October, to each their own of course.

In other words, I found great benefit from the use of visualizing white light, both for relief of health issues as well as a way to trigger OBE.

Soloma,

Federica did an excellent job addressing this issue. I have only a few brief points to add. I have tried out the Gateway material as well, which they termed hemi-sync and is similar to binaural beats, as I understand it. I don't see any particular harm in experimenting with such things when we do it from the proper soul mood and with the proper ideals.

What is frowned upon is not the use of aids, but the excessive conditioning of our free thinking "I" to those psychic and physical aids. We have to first realize we already start in a state of excessive conditioning of our "I" to the sensory spectrum and the egoistic soul life. That much is obvious to anyone who starts a spiritual path involving meditation, concentration, and other related exercises. These disorderly soul currents raise up and confront us in stark ways when we begin to differentiate our thinking consciousness from them. But it seems we never learn from our mistakes and are all too happy to once again bind our spiritual activity to some substances, physical circumstances and implements, and so forth, as long as they give us some mind-rattling and heart-warming experiences. This is the conditioning of our thinking to the senses and lower soul life that Federica mentioned. If we are honest with ourselves, we are fundamentally seeking short-term pleasure and gratification through such measures. We find this is the most convenient way to go about it.

On the other hand, the intuitive thinking (esoteric) path does not seem as convenient and life-changing at first, as Federica's quote from Steiner captures very well. I know that when one comes across Steiner or the phenomenology of spiritual activity discussed here, it sounds like we are weaving in excessive intellectual theories about spiritual reality, swamped into details about the 'mechanisms' by which it all works. It may even seem we have lost sight of the Spirit and confused our intellectual theories for it. But that's not the case at all - people only see it that way because they are so used to thinking in this way and most of us have never differentiated from that mode of thinking. When we are conditioned to think in rectangles, everything we encounter looks sort of like a rectangle to us. Then we say, 'these people are simply adding rectangles upon rectangles upon rectangles, yet I have already found much more intimate clarity about spiritual reality.' But that is simply misunderstanding the higher cognitive (intuitive thinking) path. This path not only remains centered in the Spirit but leads us into experiences we could not have even suspected it was possible to have before.

Most people suspect it is possible to lift from the body and communicate with mysterious beings in a sensory-like way. But the intuitive thinking path gives our spiritual activity the mobility and flexibility to move in ways we couldn't have imagined before, as long as we resist the persistent temptation to chain it to psychic and physical patterns of being that are adapted to outdated evolutionary circumstances. In fact, OBEs can be a quite regular occurrence on this path. As you noted, such experiences always happen when we go to sleep. That is because our astral-ego partially separates from our physical-etheric bodies. If we can resist losing cognitive coherence during this transition, we will experience something of the OBE. The higher cognitive path is exactly about enlivening, strengthening, and ennobling our cognitive life so we don't lose coherence in the sleep state and can experience what is always taking place through these states. It is, quite literally, about crossing the threshold of death while still alive in a trained and systematic way.

So you see, this intuitive thinking path not only gives us some of the same experiences, in a much more controlled and safe manner, but brings us to even deeper experiences and also helps us understand why the other approaches bring us to more limited and inexplicable experiences. It helps us understand exactly why we snap back from OBEs or get shooting pains in our body. Although we can certainly condense this understanding into communicable concepts to share with others, it lives first and foremost at the intuitive level. The condensing of clear concepts and metaphors is more like an artistic process of rendering the intuitions on the 'canvas' of the intellect to build a gradient of understanding between these modes of consciousness. Like all art, it isn't a perfect process and many things can get mangled or lost in translation, but it is still a whole new aesthetic dimension of our being that we couldn't have suspected before.

This higher development that maintains coherence across the threshold only happens if we are willing to sacrifice the pleasure-seeking spirituality for something more patient, humble, and noble, something altogether more selfless. "Those who lose their life for My sake shall find it." Again, we can and will have to use certain aids in navigating this inner path, but there is a big difference between using the aids and letting the aids use us. We can only know the mysterious will forces that Federica mentioned, which work through the physical aids, if our strengthened intuitive activity remains present in our striving and eventually ascends to the realms from which these forces emanate, with lucid cognition intact. "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God..."

[Cleric K]

I made an interesting observation (at least for myself)
that I can concentrate more deeply when I connect thought concentration with my breathing.

I come to the point where my body feels more light and my thoughts become more intense easier.

I think the exercise posted by Cleric is from OMA (correct me if im wrong), he has given a couple of breathing exercises.

Does anyone else have made the same observation?

The exercise is from Master Beinsa Douno (Peter Dunov) but it's natural that it may have been shared by OMA too.

This exercise is not so much a breathing exercise in the sense that we try to instill some specific breathing pattern but a way to connect with something deeper and ideal. It's not that we breathe in order to induce some non-ordinary state and use the words as some kind of incantation. It's the other way around. We project with our thought into the Divine and connect that with the breathing rhythm.

In certain sense, in our thinking being we're always within the context of these astral rhythms. Even if we don't understand the deeper nature of these processes we can still work on them, for example, by consecration. Even the most trivial activities can be spiritualized in this way. For example, we wash our hands. We do that for hygienic purposes. But we can think while washing "May just as the water washes away the impurities from my hands, so Divine Love flow through me and wash away all dark thoughts and feelings." This is really the proper mood in which the exercise in question should be taken. We breathe instinctively all the time. Why not breathe once in a while by consecrating our breath to the Divine?

The important thing is not to allow certain activities stand in between ourselves and the Divine. This can be taken as a simple rule. When we modify our breathing rhythm it should happen because we focus on the Divine ideal. In other words, our focus on the Divine is the tuning fork. Now I remembered the feather analogy. It gives us some hint about the way we feel when we concentrate on the Divine. Our being breathes as a whole with the environment. All inner space gently contracts and expands but at the same time our center point is absolutely stable, it is not dragged with the pulses.

[Cleric K]

Thank you Federica.

In my meditation today I had reached a point where my body feels very paralyzed, almost like it will dissappear when I go further. Before that I saw colors (mixture of yellow and green) moving in a certain pattern.

The problem is to stay calm in those moments, it really difficult, because my heart beats faster and fear comes with that. It comes automatically.

Do you can relate to the above, in your own meditation practice?

I'm really curious about what will happen when I don't stop meditation after this point.


Ps: today I did a concentration exercise on mantra (given from steiner).

Guney,
I guess you already know this, but I'll mention it anyway. When you find yourself approaching the edge of nothingness, it is the time to remember the Divine. It's not about fantasizing Godly figures but maybe one of the best ways to capture the inner attitude is through Psalm 23.

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil;
For You are with me;
Your rod and Your staff, they comfort me.

We are indeed supported from all sides. In this mood we can really be open and feel in our heart that we'll be shown exactly as much as we're ready to behold.

Guney, you are advancing and it might be a good time to take a look at this lecture: https://rsarchive.org/Lectures/GA161/En ... 27p02.html
You may read all three lectures if you want but this one is enough for what I want to point at.

This may help you realize that the path that you seem to be drawn to - not seeking visions but going through the slow but certain development of intuitive orientation - indeed takes time. The moments when you feel in the way you describe - as if at the edge of nothingness - will become more common. There's no need to be paralyzed in anticipation that something should happen. You're becoming used to live outside the immediate physical sensations. In the third lecture Steiner says: "... with our thinking we are always outside our physical body; in reality spiritual knowledge consists in our recognizing that we are outside the physical body with our thinking." This is such a simple truth, yet it is precisely this 'recognizing' that is so difficult as long as one is sucked into the sensory impressions and the perceptual forms of thoughts. In that sense, when you spend time in this seemingly empty space, you are already in the spiritual world. Yet gaining consciousness there is a slow process because it is similar to the development of mathematical intuition, except that it is not only intellectual, weaved of point-like concepts, but your whole volume of existence becomes a form of active meaning. This is not something that we simply see visually. You understand all this very well already. Those who are too eager to see, end up precisely in the abdomen-clairvoyance as it is termed in the lecture. This is very easy to achieve, including through psychedelics, but as it is explained, in that state we're exclusively enmeshed in our Earthly being. In the end we only know that we have experienced some non-ordinary states, yet nothing about what it all means and how it places us within the greater flow.

I decided to mention these things in order for you to know that what you're going through is completely normal. Thanks to the fact that you have taken the concentration of thinking seriously, you'll soon be able to very clearly distinguish this depth axis - from the purely ideal, where your intuitive being belongs to the ideal Cosmos, through the Imaginative, to the perceptual.

[Federica]

Thank you Federica.

In my meditation today I had reached a point where my body feels very paralyzed, almost like it will dissappear when I go further. Before that I saw colors (mixture of yellow and green) moving in a certain pattern.

The problem is to stay calm in those moments, it really difficult, because my heart beats faster and fear comes with that. It comes automatically.

Do you can relate to the above, in your own meditation practice?

I can relate to the fear, not to the rest of what you describe. I am definitely at a more beginner level. Also for me it's a sort of cold fear. No fast heart beats, only a kind of general mood of apprehension, a heaviness. Sometimes I have seen some unknown scary characters.

[Güney27]

Thank you Federica.

In my meditation today I had reached a point where my body feels very paralyzed, almost like it will dissappear when I go further. Before that I saw colors (mixture of yellow and green) moving in a certain pattern.

The problem is to stay calm in those moments, it really difficult, because my heart beats faster and fear comes with that. It comes automatically.

Do you can relate to the above, in your own meditation practice?

I can relate to the fear, not to the rest of what you describe. I am definitely at a more beginner level. Also for me it's a sort of cold fear. No fast heart beats, only a kind of general mood of apprehension, a heaviness. Sometimes I have seen some unknown scary characters.

I'm certainly at a beginner level too.
I can't go pass the state of colorfull "blackness".
It takes 15-25 minutes to get to this state for me, if I even get there.

The thing is that I meditated a couple years ago in an other way (by focusing on soemmething or my breathing) and could get to this point too.

What are the scary characters you see?

[Güney27]

Thank you Federica.

In my meditation today I had reached a point where my body feels very paralyzed, almost like it will dissappear when I go further. Before that I saw colors (mixture of yellow and green) moving in a certain pattern.

The problem is to stay calm in those moments, it really difficult, because my heart beats faster and fear comes with that. It comes automatically.

Do you can relate to the above, in your own meditation practice?

I'm really curious about what will happen when I don't stop meditation after this point.


Ps: today I did a concentration exercise on mantra (given from steiner).

Guney,
I guess you already know this, but I'll mention it anyway. When you find yourself approaching the edge of nothingness, it is the time to remember the Divine. It's not about fantasizing Godly figures but maybe one of the best ways to capture the inner attitude is through Psalm 23.

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil;
For You are with me;
Your rod and Your staff, they comfort me.

We are indeed supported from all sides. In this mood we can really be open and feel in our heart that we'll be shown exactly as much as we're ready to behold.

Guney, you are advancing and it might be a good time to take a look at this lecture: https://rsarchive.org/Lectures/GA161/En ... 27p02.html
You may read all three lectures if you want but this one is enough for what I want to point at.

This may help you realize that the path that you seem to be drawn to - not seeking visions but going through the slow but certain development of intuitive orientation - indeed takes time. The moments when you feel in the way you describe - as if at the edge of nothingness - will become more common. There's no need to be paralyzed in anticipation that something should happen. You're becoming used to live outside the immediate physical sensations. In the third lecture Steiner says: "... with our thinking we are always outside our physical body; in reality spiritual knowledge consists in our recognizing that we are outside the physical body with our thinking." This is such a simple truth, yet it is precisely this 'recognizing' that is so difficult as long as one is sucked into the sensory impressions and the perceptual forms of thoughts. In that sense, when you spend time in this seemingly empty space, you are already in the spiritual world. Yet gaining consciousness there is a slow process because it is similar to the development of mathematical intuition, except that it is not only intellectual, weaved of point-like concepts, but your whole volume of existence becomes a form of active meaning. This is not something that we simply see visually. You understand all this very well already. Those who are too eager to see, end up precisely in the abdomen-clairvoyance as it is termed in the lecture. This is very easy to achieve, including through psychedelics, but as it is explained, in that state we're exclusively enmeshed in our Earthly being. In the end we only know that we have experienced some non-ordinary states, yet nothing about what it all means and how it places us within the greater flow.

I decided to mention these things in order for you to know that what you're going through is completely normal. Thanks to the fact that you have taken the concentration of thinking seriously, you'll soon be able to very clearly distinguish this depth axis - from the purely ideal, where your intuitive being belongs to the ideal Cosmos, through the Imaginative, to the perceptual.

Thank you cleric!

I thought about how we talked a couple times about the loosening of the etheric body from the physical, and tried to couple it with the experience I had while meditating.
The "going sleeping" of the physical body gives me in no way the experience of loosening the etheric body.

I have a new sensation and link it with the concept that I got from here.
To me it is very superficial, because I want to come myself to the conclusion of loosening the etheric body.
For me it's only "going sleeping" of the body.

As someone with meditation practice, you certainly have experienced colors in the loosening state, am I right?
Di the colors have significance, or should I still try to not focus on anything else?


My third question is, when should I stop concentrating on the "mantram" ?

[Güney27]

Ps:
Where can i read the writings of Peter deunov online ?
I didn't find much from him, but noticed that he has composed great music.

[AshvinP]

Ps:
Where can i read the writings of Peter deunov online ?
I didn't find much from him, but noticed that he has composed great music.

Guney,

Here is a nice webpage on BD - https://anthroposophy.eu/Beinsa_Douno

Here is a forum that seems to house many of his lectures and writings - https://en-petardanov.com/