Understanding the Christ-being and His Significance for the Future of Humanity

[Federica]

I would like to open a new thread, and attempt to explore in direct manner the Christ events, that is the center of the central topic of the becoming of our planet-being and its residents through their Earth-human stage of evolution.

Naturally, there have been numerous references on the forum to the Christ impulse, the gift of Love, and the sacrifice that enabled humanity to awaken to individuated consciousness, thus steering its trajectory out of involution. But the more I learn about the path of initiation - the more I realize this path simply constitutes the task of humanity today, rather than an elitist and occult endeavor - the more I also discover how it can only be walked through an understanding and an experience of what Steiner has called the Mystery of Golgotha. Christ has walked this path for us, ahead of us, and had He not opened the way for humanity to consciously aspire to the heights of Spirit, nothing that we ever think, feel, wish, and pursue in the experience of this life would have turned out as it does for us today, no matter how innate and proper our philosophical, scientifical, and religious impulses might appear to us.

In other words, I would like to explore the cognitive steps of living knowledge in a more vivid connection with their history and their making, rather than as a primarily philosophical-technical pursuit. In this way, the scientific approach developed by man through the gift of the I can rightfully give back to the Spirit of which it was born, and so the path can truly become spiritual-scientific.

As it seems, there are plenty of possible directions to explore this topic. One question I have is: I’m reading of a precise correspondence between the seven stages of initiation as in Steiner - Washing of the feet, Scourging, Crowning with thorns,...) and the stations of the calvary (if that’s the correct name) and I wonder what the connection is between the Christ events and the cognitive stages we often discuss: Imaginative, Inspirative, Intuitive. Does anyone have thoughts about that, or references? Thank you!

[AshvinP]

I would like to open a new thread, and attempt to explore in direct manner the Christ events, that is the center of the central topic of the becoming of our planet-being and its residents through their Earth-human stage of evolution.

Naturally, there have been numerous references on the forum to the Christ impulse, the gift of Love, and the sacrifice that enabled humanity to awaken to individuated consciousness, thus steering its trajectory out of involution. But the more I learn about the path of initiation - the more I realize this path simply constitutes the task of humanity today, rather than an elitist and occult endeavor - the more I also discover how it can only be walked through an understanding and an experience of what Steiner has called the Mystery of Golgotha. Christ has walked this path for us, ahead of us, and had He not opened the way for humanity to consciously aspire to the heights of Spirit, nothing that we ever think, feel, wish, and pursue in the experience of this life would have turned out as it does for us today, no matter how innate and proper our philosophical, scientifical, and religious impulses might appear to us.

In other words, I would like to explore the cognitive steps of living knowledge in a more vivid connection with their history and their making, rather than as a primarily philosophical-technical pursuit. In this way, the scientific approach developed by man through the gift of the I can rightfully give back to the Spirit of which it was born, and so the path can truly become spiritual-scientific.

As it seems, there are plenty of possible directions to explore this topic. One question I have is: I’m reading of a precise correspondence between the seven stages of initiation as in Steiner - Washing of the feet, Scourging, Crowning with thorns,...) and the stations of the calvary (if that’s the correct name) and I wonder what the connection is between the Christ events and the cognitive stages we often discuss: Imaginative, Inspirative, Intuitive. Does anyone have thoughts about that, or references? Thank you!

Federica,

Thanks for starting this topic, with undoubtedly infinite depth to explore. I have some thoughts on your question, but for now I would like to present another angle from which I started contemplating recently. It probably also relates to the question in a more roundabout way. I am reading a book called Hermetic Astrology by Robert Powell, who is an Anthroposophist. I am still working my way through the details of Hermetic astrological science (or Astrosophy), but it has already proven to be a fascinating read on many different fronts. I have been trying to associate it with the principles of spiritual evolution I have already learned from this forum and Steiner's lectures. What follows is basically just speculation on my part and so I advise to only take it as such, keeping in mind it could be way off. Still, I think there are good reasons to make the association.

In this context, I want to mention a section where he discusses how the astrological biography (or Karmic destiny) for a given incarnation is woven into our etheric body between conception and birth. After calculating back from the time of birth to the time of etheric conception (using what's called the Hermetic rule), which is around the same time but not identical to physical conception, one can discern 10 stages through which the Moon travels through the sidereal Zodiac during the conception-birth period. These correspond to the archetypal 7-year stages through which our destiny unfolds between birth and death, as the etheric body unfolds its forces. Steiner mentions how the etheric body begins old and grows younger throughout life until its forces are used up, at which time we die (in the case of natural death). By studying the configurations of Sun, Moon, and stars at each time the Moon returns to its original position at etheric conception, one can get deep insight into the unfolding of this Karmic destiny. There are a lot more details involved here and he makes clear that is not an infallible process - there is a lot of room for deviations. Above all, he emphasizes that the workings of destiny can only be discerned through higher cognition and Hermetic astrological science is simply one of many new tools which can be used in support, helping to build the gradient between our normal scientific consciousness and our future modes of cognition. 

So, the weaving of destiny forces into the etheric body generally takes place within the sphere of the Moon which is accessible to imaginative cognition, i.e. higher up the structured Time-potential. By translating embryonic time into Earth time, we can relate certain planetary configurations which occur during the embryonic period to precise times in a person's life, which then give us a broad sense of what types of events might unfold at those times. The author used the example of Richard Wagner to illustrate this principle. I think there are other examples later in the book. What I discerned is that a similar principle may apply to the weaving and unfolding of Earth's evolutionary destiny through the Christ events (which takes place through humanity). For ex., Steiner writes:

In order to represent the matter quite pictorially, let us in spirit transplant ourselves outside beyond the earth to some other star, and let us imagine a person with clairvoyant vision looking down upon the earth from this star. He would not only see the earth suspended there as a physical planet, but he would see an aura about it, he would see the earth surrounded by an aura of light, for he would be perceiving the earth's ether and astral bodies. If this clairvoyant person were to remain a long time on this distant star, long enough to have observed the pre-Christian periods of the earth pass by and the Event of Golgotha approaching, the following spectacle would have presented itself to him. Before the Event of Golgotha the aura of the earth, the astral and ether bodies offered a certain aspect of colour and form, but following a particular, definite moment of time, he would have seen the colour of the entire aura changing. What was this particular moment of time? It was the very moment when the blood flowed from the wounds of Christ-Jesus upon Golgotha. All spiritual earthly relationships, as such, changed from this moment.

So the period of the Christ events between Baptism and the Resurrection could be analogous to the weaving of our personal destinies into the etheric body before birth. In this case, we are speaking of the spiritual birth (or rebirth) of humanity and the Earth as a whole, with the official 'birth date' at the Resurrection. The same author, in another work, even suggests a temporal association which could be relevant here - a day in the life of Christ corresponds to 29.5 years of history, which is the time it takes for Saturn to travel around the sidereal Zodiac. I'm not going to say that is definitely accurate, but it makes great sense that there would be rhythmic correspondence between the days of Christ Jesus' ministry and the unfolding of Earth evolution afterwards. So the forces woven into the Earth's astral-etheric aura during this period of 'conception-birth' are now unfolding after birth according to a definite rhythm. It's also worth noting that Christ is the Lord of Karma. As you can imagine, if that is accurate, there are a lot more profound connections which can be made between the Christ events and various historical events which have unfolded so far and many more which are yet to unfold, but I am not really familiar with those yet. Again, I would advise to only take this as loose speculation for now. If accurate, then it is only one of infinite ways in which the Christ events are concretely influencing the Earthly-human stream of becoming at the poles of both the collective and the individual. 

[AshvinP]

So, after some further searching, I came across the following from Robert Powell's articles on the Sophia Foundation website.

https://sophiafoundation.org/wp-content ... r-2018.pdf

The precessional clock is the “hour hand,” allowing only the broadest of correlations between the pictures of the Apocalypse and historical events since John first recorded his visions. A “minute hand” is needed before these pictures can serve as guides for the present and future. Since we are deciphering Christian prophecy, it is not surprising that we can find the “minute hand” by following the chronology of the life of Christ in order to understand the present moment in history. The life of Christ, especially from the baptism in the River Jordan until his death on the cross and subsequent resurrection—the death and resurrection together comprising the bookends of what is referred to as the Mystery of Golgotha—can be thought of as an embryonic period, a seed from which the future course of world history grows and bears fruit. Accordingly, every deed performed by Christ has eternal significance, so that the rhythm of his life does not end, but perennially repeats in new cycles of Time.3

We can liken the period between the Baptism and the Mystery of Golgotha to the period between conception and birth. Accordingly, the conception took place at the Baptism in the River Jordan, on September 23, AD 29, when Christ incarnated into the physical body of Jesus and took on the task during his ministry of transforming the physical body into the resurrection body. The birth was the resurrection itself some three-and-a-half years later—that date being the original Easter Sunday on April 5, AD 33. The exact period from the Baptism to the Resurrection is1290 days—slightly more than three-and-a-half years. 1290 days is also the period mentioned in the last chapter in the book of Daniel. Each of these 1290 days was a preparation for unfolding the future history of humanity. The key—the Apocalypse Code—to this unfolding of the Christ impulse is that one day in the life of Christ corresponds to twenty-nine and a half years of history.5

Readers familiar with astronomy will know that twenty-nine and a half years is the period taken by Saturn to make one orbit of the zodiac. And those readers conversant with astrosophy—“star wisdom”—will know that Saturn is the planet of cosmic memory, and it is on this account that the correspondence “one day in the life of Christ corresponds to twenty-nine and a half years of history” holds true.

[Federica]

Federica,

Thanks for starting this topic, with undoubtedly infinite depth to explore. I have some thoughts on your question, but for now I would like to present another angle from which I started contemplating recently. It probably also relates to the question in a more roundabout way. I am reading a book called Hermetic Astrology by Robert Powell, who is an Anthroposophist. I am still working my way through the details of Hermetic astrological science (or Astrosophy), but it has already proven to be a fascinating read on many different fronts. I have been trying to associate it with the principles of spiritual evolution I have already learned from this forum and Steiner's lectures. What follows is basically just speculation on my part and so I advise to only take it as such, keeping in mind it could be way off. Still, I think there are good reasons to make the association.

In this context, I want to mention a section where he discusses how the astrological biography (or Karmic destiny) for a given incarnation is woven into our etheric body between conception and birth. After calculating back from the time of birth to the time of etheric conception (using what's called the Hermetic rule), which is around the same time but not identical to physical conception, one can discern 10 stages through which the Moon travels through the sidereal Zodiac during the conception-birth period. These correspond to the archetypal 7-year stages through which our destiny unfolds between birth and death, as the etheric body unfolds its forces. Steiner mentions how the etheric body begins old and grows younger throughout life until its forces are used up, at which time we die (in the case of natural death). By studying the configurations of Sun, Moon, and stars at each time the Moon returns to its original position at etheric conception, one can get deep insight into the unfolding of this Karmic destiny. There are a lot more details involved here and he makes clear that is not an infallible process - there is a lot of room for deviations. Above all, he emphasizes that the workings of destiny can only be discerned through higher cognition and Hermetic astrological science is simply one of many new tools which can be used in support, helping to build the gradient between our normal scientific consciousness and our future modes of cognition.

So, the weaving of destiny forces into the etheric body generally takes place within the sphere of the Moon which is accessible to imaginative cognition, i.e. higher up the structured Time-potential. By translating embryonic time into Earth time, we can relate certain planetary configurations which occur during the embryonic period to precise times in a person's life, which then give us a broad sense of what types of events might unfold at those times. The author used the example of Richard Wagner to illustrate this principle. I think there are other examples later in the book. What I discerned is that a similar principle may apply to the weaving and unfolding of Earth's evolutionary destiny through the Christ events (which takes place through humanity). For ex., Steiner writes:

In order to represent the matter quite pictorially, let us in spirit transplant ourselves outside beyond the earth to some other star, and let us imagine a person with clairvoyant vision looking down upon the earth from this star. He would not only see the earth suspended there as a physical planet, but he would see an aura about it, he would see the earth surrounded by an aura of light, for he would be perceiving the earth's ether and astral bodies. If this clairvoyant person were to remain a long time on this distant star, long enough to have observed the pre-Christian periods of the earth pass by and the Event of Golgotha approaching, the following spectacle would have presented itself to him. Before the Event of Golgotha the aura of the earth, the astral and ether bodies offered a certain aspect of colour and form, but following a particular, definite moment of time, he would have seen the colour of the entire aura changing. What was this particular moment of time? It was the very moment when the blood flowed from the wounds of Christ-Jesus upon Golgotha. All spiritual earthly relationships, as such, changed from this moment.

So the period of the Christ events between Baptism and the Resurrection could be analogous to the weaving of our personal destinies into the etheric body before birth. In this case, we are speaking of the spiritual birth (or rebirth) of humanity and the Earth as a whole, with the official 'birth date' at the Resurrection. The same author, in another work, even suggests a temporal association which could be relevant here - a day in the life of Christ corresponds to 29.5 years of history, which is the time it takes for Saturn to travel around the sidereal Zodiac. I'm not going to say that is definitely accurate, but it makes great sense that there would be rhythmic correspondence between the days of Christ Jesus' ministry and the unfolding of Earth evolution afterwards. So the forces woven into the Earth's astral-etheric aura during this period of 'conception-birth' are now unfolding after birth according to a definite rhythm. It's also worth noting that Christ is the Lord of Karma. As you can imagine, if that is accurate, there are a lot more profound connections which can be made between the Christ events and various historical events which have unfolded so far and many more which are yet to unfold, but I am not really familiar with those yet. Again, I would advise to only take this as loose speculation for now. If accurate, then it is only one of infinite ways in which the Christ events are concretely influencing the Earthly-human stream of becoming at the poles of both the collective and the individual.

Ashvin,

This might be a roundabout, but a really compelling one indeed!
If I may, I would start with a basic question about astrology, or astrosophy. How does it square with individual freedom and with the difference we can make by working “against nature” at neutralizing our personal karmic debt? I understand that bigger future events and trends that have been powerfully built up through longer time spans, along strong karmic currents, are maybe not exactly set in stone, but have accumulated enough momentum to be almost impossible to influence ever so slightly by individual initiative. And so they must be visible through spiritual sight, and foreseeable with great confidence. However, when it comes to the events of an individual life, how should we understand the idea of astrological prediction without compromising that of individual freedom? In this respect, I like how von Halle describes the Earth’s future in the book I’m reading about the depth of the Earth-being: its future can be spiritually perceived not as predestination, but as something in a process of continuous recalculation, or change, depending on a variety of influences, mainly those of human activity.


Is it maybe that the astrologer can get from the mentioned calculations a provisional state of the karmic forces due to exert their impressions in the life of the person in question, forces that the person will nevertheless be able to work against, depending on life choices? Or does it aspire to be a predictive science at the level of the individual? In other words I am not clear how hermetic astrology can help build the gradient towards higher cognition, while being based on physical observations and measurements of physical planets (if I am correct)? Maybe it can build the gradient in the same way secular science can, by offering a medium for intuition of spiritual facts, through the proxy of the physical world?

So, the weaving of destiny forces into the etheric body generally takes place within the sphere of the Moon which is accessible to imaginative cognition, i.e. higher up the structured Time-potential.

I’m confused about the above sentence: “higher up” compared to what?

***

Anyway, let’s now leave behind all my bits and pieces and come to the important part:

What I discerned is that a similar principle may apply to the weaving and unfolding of Earth's evolutionary destiny through the Christ events

You are absolutely right. Not that I can discern this, of course, but this is indeed what von Halle describes in the book I'm reading. The Resurrection marks the completion of the Christ’s “descent into hell”, that is, the penetration of all the Earth’s layers, that encapsulate precise accounts of both its past, and its continually evolving future. Also, reference is made to a Steiner lecture about the layers, that is not yet available in the Steiner Archive: GA 96, 16 apr 1906 The Eruption of Vesuvius. The lecture has been published here, but the book is currently not available.

So the period of the Christ events between Baptism and the Resurrection could be analogous to the weaving of our personal destinies into the etheric body before birth. In this case, we are speaking of the spiritual birth (or rebirth) of humanity and the Earth as a whole, with the official 'birth date' at the Resurrection

Yes! The destinies of the Earth and humanity being so strictly interwoven, I understand how you are making this parallel. And the Resurrection - again I am referring to von Halle’s illustration - marks indeed the moment in which humanity acquires the possibility to ascend to the Spirit, from the Earth (what you call the spiritual rebirth of humanity) because at that moment Christ reached the Earth’s innermost layer, completing the path, for the sake of humanity, at the same time that the Christ events were culminating in Resurrection. The same path that has now opened for humanity to freely engage in. On this basis, as you say, it makes sense that a definite proportion could be identified that links the pacing of the Christ events to the rebirth and future of our planet. That was a brilliant intuition, Ashvin!

[AshvinP]

Federica,

Thanks for starting this topic, with undoubtedly infinite depth to explore. I have some thoughts on your question, but for now I would like to present another angle from which I started contemplating recently. It probably also relates to the question in a more roundabout way. I am reading a book called Hermetic Astrology by Robert Powell, who is an Anthroposophist. I am still working my way through the details of Hermetic astrological science (or Astrosophy), but it has already proven to be a fascinating read on many different fronts. I have been trying to associate it with the principles of spiritual evolution I have already learned from this forum and Steiner's lectures. What follows is basically just speculation on my part and so I advise to only take it as such, keeping in mind it could be way off. Still, I think there are good reasons to make the association.

In this context, I want to mention a section where he discusses how the astrological biography (or Karmic destiny) for a given incarnation is woven into our etheric body between conception and birth. After calculating back from the time of birth to the time of etheric conception (using what's called the Hermetic rule), which is around the same time but not identical to physical conception, one can discern 10 stages through which the Moon travels through the sidereal Zodiac during the conception-birth period. These correspond to the archetypal 7-year stages through which our destiny unfolds between birth and death, as the etheric body unfolds its forces. Steiner mentions how the etheric body begins old and grows younger throughout life until its forces are used up, at which time we die (in the case of natural death). By studying the configurations of Sun, Moon, and stars at each time the Moon returns to its original position at etheric conception, one can get deep insight into the unfolding of this Karmic destiny. There are a lot more details involved here and he makes clear that is not an infallible process - there is a lot of room for deviations. Above all, he emphasizes that the workings of destiny can only be discerned through higher cognition and Hermetic astrological science is simply one of many new tools which can be used in support, helping to build the gradient between our normal scientific consciousness and our future modes of cognition.

So, the weaving of destiny forces into the etheric body generally takes place within the sphere of the Moon which is accessible to imaginative cognition, i.e. higher up the structured Time-potential. By translating embryonic time into Earth time, we can relate certain planetary configurations which occur during the embryonic period to precise times in a person's life, which then give us a broad sense of what types of events might unfold at those times. The author used the example of Richard Wagner to illustrate this principle. I think there are other examples later in the book. What I discerned is that a similar principle may apply to the weaving and unfolding of Earth's evolutionary destiny through the Christ events (which takes place through humanity). For ex., Steiner writes:

In order to represent the matter quite pictorially, let us in spirit transplant ourselves outside beyond the earth to some other star, and let us imagine a person with clairvoyant vision looking down upon the earth from this star. He would not only see the earth suspended there as a physical planet, but he would see an aura about it, he would see the earth surrounded by an aura of light, for he would be perceiving the earth's ether and astral bodies. If this clairvoyant person were to remain a long time on this distant star, long enough to have observed the pre-Christian periods of the earth pass by and the Event of Golgotha approaching, the following spectacle would have presented itself to him. Before the Event of Golgotha the aura of the earth, the astral and ether bodies offered a certain aspect of colour and form, but following a particular, definite moment of time, he would have seen the colour of the entire aura changing. What was this particular moment of time? It was the very moment when the blood flowed from the wounds of Christ-Jesus upon Golgotha. All spiritual earthly relationships, as such, changed from this moment.

So the period of the Christ events between Baptism and the Resurrection could be analogous to the weaving of our personal destinies into the etheric body before birth. In this case, we are speaking of the spiritual birth (or rebirth) of humanity and the Earth as a whole, with the official 'birth date' at the Resurrection. The same author, in another work, even suggests a temporal association which could be relevant here - a day in the life of Christ corresponds to 29.5 years of history, which is the time it takes for Saturn to travel around the sidereal Zodiac. I'm not going to say that is definitely accurate, but it makes great sense that there would be rhythmic correspondence between the days of Christ Jesus' ministry and the unfolding of Earth evolution afterwards. So the forces woven into the Earth's astral-etheric aura during this period of 'conception-birth' are now unfolding after birth according to a definite rhythm. It's also worth noting that Christ is the Lord of Karma. As you can imagine, if that is accurate, there are a lot more profound connections which can be made between the Christ events and various historical events which have unfolded so far and many more which are yet to unfold, but I am not really familiar with those yet. Again, I would advise to only take this as loose speculation for now. If accurate, then it is only one of infinite ways in which the Christ events are concretely influencing the Earthly-human stream of becoming at the poles of both the collective and the individual.

Ashvin,

This might be a roundabout, but a really compelling one indeed!
If I may, I would start with a basic question about astrology, or astrosophy. How does it square with individual freedom and with the difference we can make by working “against nature” at neutralizing our personal karmic debt? I understand that bigger future events and trends that have been powerfully built up through longer time spans, along strong karmic currents, are maybe not exactly set in stone, but have accumulated enough momentum to be almost impossible to influence ever so slightly by individual initiative. And so they must be visible through spiritual sight, and foreseeable with great confidence. However, when it comes to the events of an individual life, how should we understand the idea of astrological prediction without compromising that of individual freedom? In this respect, I like how von Halle describes the Earth’s future in the book I’m reading about the depth of the Earth-being: its future can be spiritually perceived not as predestination, but as something in a process of continuous recalculation, or change, depending on a variety of influences, mainly those of human activity.


Is it maybe that the astrologer can get from the mentioned calculations a provisional state of the karmic forces due to exert their impressions in the life of the person in question, forces that the person will nevertheless be able to work against, depending on life choices? Or does it aspire to be a predictive science at the level of the individual? In other words I am not clear how hermetic astrology can help build the gradient towards higher cognition, while being based on physical observations and measurements of physical planets (if I am correct)? Maybe it can build the gradient in the same way secular science can, by offering a medium for intuition of spiritual facts, through the proxy of the physical world?

So, the weaving of destiny forces into the etheric body generally takes place within the sphere of the Moon which is accessible to imaginative cognition, i.e. higher up the structured Time-potential.

I’m confused about the above sentence: “higher up” compared to what?

***

Anyway, let’s now leave behind all my bits and pieces and come to the important part:

What I discerned is that a similar principle may apply to the weaving and unfolding of Earth's evolutionary destiny through the Christ events

You are absolutely right. Not that I can discern this, of course, but this is indeed what von Halle describes in the book I'm reading. The Resurrection marks the completion of the Christ’s “descent into hell”, that is, the penetration of all the Earth’s layers, that encapsulate precise accounts of both its past, and its continually evolving future. Also, reference is made to a Steiner lecture about the layers, that is not yet available in the Steiner Archive: GA 96, 16 apr 1906 The Eruption of Vesuvius. The lecture has been published here, but the book is currently not available.

So the period of the Christ events between Baptism and the Resurrection could be analogous to the weaving of our personal destinies into the etheric body before birth. In this case, we are speaking of the spiritual birth (or rebirth) of humanity and the Earth as a whole, with the official 'birth date' at the Resurrection

Yes! The destinies of the Earth and humanity being so strictly interwoven, I understand how you are making this parallel. And the Resurrection - again I am referring to von Halle’s illustration - marks indeed the moment in which humanity acquires the possibility to ascend to the Spirit, from the Earth (what you call the spiritual rebirth of humanity) because at that moment Christ reached the Earth’s innermost layer, completing the path, for the sake of humanity, at the same time that the Christ events were culminating in Resurrection. The same path that has now opened for humanity to freely engage in. On this basis, as you say, it makes sense that a definite proportion could be identified that links the pacing of the Christ events to the rebirth and future of our planet. That was a brilliant intuition, Ashvin!

These are great questions, Federica. Powell addresses them in his books as well. He quotes the maxim, "the stars incline, they do not compel." As always, take the following very loosely, as I am no expert on Astrosophy and just started learning about it. You can take it as dim pointers to keep in mind until you have a chance to check out Powell's articles or books.

It's very interesting because he differentiates between the geocentric charts, which are standard for mainstream Western astrology, and the Hermetic heliocentric charts. The latter views the Sun and Moon from the Earth-perspective but the other planetary configurations from the Sun-perspective, so it is a synthesis of geocentric and heliocentric. Also it uses the sidereal Zodiac instead of the tropical Zodiac (Powell decisively concluded the former is the authentic Zodiac). He goes into all the reasoning behind these differences and what they signify. Basically, he discovered that the geocentric chart at a person's birth is a reflection of the Hermetic chart in their previous incarnation, while the Hermetic chart points towards their geocentric chart in the next incarnation. He arrived at this conclusion by studying the charts of known reincarnations of individuals from higher cognition, such as those provided by Steiner in his lectures on Karmic Relationships, where the precise birth dates/times could also be known.

The geocentric chart, therefore, reflects past Karma which has been embedded in a given incarnation and will unfold influences on various aspects of the person's destiny, mostly at the level of physical and life circumstances. These are the result of inner qualities and capacities developed in the previous incarnation. Even at this level, there is some leeway for the personality, mainly in how they respond to those circumstances. The planetary configurations against the background of the Zodiac should be understood as the outer physiognomy of spiritual beings of the higher hierarchies (non-spatially) at work within these Spheres. The charts present sort of a snapshot of these spiritual forces in relation to the individual's development at any given incarnation. Actually, we could say the individuality plans his/her incarnation between death-rebirth based on how these forces will be aligned, with the goal of being conceived-born when the alignments are most conducive to their mission for that incarnation, based on both their accumulated past Karma (negative and positive) and their future Karmic potential (what tasks within the Cosmic organism they are seeking to fulfill going forward). So it is all structured from the top-down by intentional spiritual forces and the physical Cosmos, and these conceptual systems, simply present dim opportunities for us to learn about the archetypal forces between birth-death, just like the rest of the Earthly sensory spectrum. Of course, the learning opportunities become more lucid and profound, revealing deeper layers of meaning, the more we are able to evolve our cognition during life. There is also a more imaginative approach to astrological science which Powell mentions in the book, relating to how we understand the qualities of the Zodiacal constellations.

The Hermetic heliocentric chart speaks more to the future Karmic potential of an individual based on their soul-spirit talents, capacities, etc. The planetary forces are associated with the sevenfold lotus flowers in each human indiviudal, which are the microcosmic image of the former. The configurations at birth, such as Saturn square with the Sun, Jupiter in opposition to Venus, Mars in conjunction with Mercury, etc. can give us concrete ideas of what potential inner forces the personality can unfold in a given incarnation. (Saturn - crown, Jupiter - brow, Mars - larynx, Sun - heart, Mercury - solar plexus, Venus - sacral, Moon - root). Each lotus flower is connected with definite spiritual forces and can work their influences more in the life of thinking, of the will, or in the life of feeling through dynamic interplay. These relations are all reflected in the Hermetic chart configurations. So there is an always an interference of Karmic destiny (past) and Karmic potential (future) in a given incarnation, although now we have reached the stage where the latter can be unfolded more and more strongly by transmuting the former. We do that by becoming more conscious of our Karmic destiny via evolved cognition and its tool such as astrological science. Really we should consider it a sub-branch of spiritual science as a whole. Then we are not only working against the forces of our destiny, but with them. We become who we are intended to be without so many winding detours, so to speak.

I have not yet had a chance to read von Halle, but I hear great things. Actually Powell quotes her a lot as well. He compares her to St. Francis of Assisi, which is very high praise! I will need to check out her writings soon. Powell also discusses the descent of Christ into the subearthly spheres in this article.

https://sophiafoundation.org/wp-content ... CHRIST.pdf

[AshvinP]

So, the weaving of destiny forces into the etheric body generally takes place within the sphere of the Moon which is accessible to imaginative cognition, i.e. higher up the structured Time-potential.

I’m confused about the above sentence: “higher up” compared to what?

Here I was referring to the Time-consciousness spectrum. Our fourfolded Earthly convolution has a certain 'time-signature', i.e. a sluggish rhythm by which our states of being transform. But in the emrbyo we are actually still residing mostly within the Moon sphere, which is a gateway from Earth to the Cosmos, with a less sluggish time-signature. That fact should also help us discern why stellar configurations at conception-birth are reflecting to us the archetypal 'frames' by which our incarnate life will unfold. These are all superimposed spheres of activity which we tease apart in our conceptual thinking for convenience.

The concepts reflect a certain intuitive orientation we have towards the lawful transformation of different aspects of our be-ing. So the lawfulness by which the sensory spectrum transforms, we call the physical plane or Earthly sphere, which is lucidly accessible to normal intellectual cognition. The lawfulness by which our etheric life transforms - which generally relates to our deeper imagination, life functions, memories, habits, temperament, sympathies-antipathies - is more related to what we call the Moon sphere, lucidly accessible to imaginative and higher cognition (Powell refers to it as 'lunar consciousness' in the book). These factors play a large role in the structuring of our incarnate destiny at the archetypal level (not necessarily in the particular details, which is where we initially find our degrees of freedom).

The outer conception-perception of the Sun, Moon, planets, Zodiac, are the dim ways we represent these superimposed spheres of intuitive lawfulness during our incarnate life, at our current stage of evolution. Everything we conceive-perceive in the so-called 'present' is actually already accomplished intents. Through imaginative cognition, we come to inwardly awaken to this fact. Previously there were epochs when the outer Cosmos was perceived much more imaginatively, for ex. in the ancient Egyptian civilization, where there could be no doubt that spiritual activity had been at work. Soon we will arrive once again a stage where the imaginative life of the Cosmos becomes impossible to ignore at the cognitive level, although still possible to reject in one's heart if the Christ impulse is neglected.

[Federica]

These are great questions, Federica. Powell addresses them in his books as well. He quotes the maxim, "the stars incline, they do not compel." As always, take the following very loosely, as I am no expert on Astrosophy and just started learning about it. You can take it as dim pointers to keep in mind until you have a chance to check out Powell's articles or books.

It's very interesting because he differentiates between the geocentric charts, which are standard for mainstream Western astrology, and the Hermetic heliocentric charts. The latter views the Sun and Moon from the Earth-perspective but the other planetary configurations from the Sun-perspective, so it is a synthesis of geocentric and heliocentric. Also it uses the sidereal Zodiac instead of the tropical Zodiac (Powell decisively concluded the former is the authentic Zodiac). He goes into all the reasoning behind these differences and what they signify. Basically, he discovered that the geocentric chart at a person's birth is a reflection of the Hermetic chart in their previous incarnation, while the Hermetic chart points towards their geocentric chart in the next incarnation. He arrived at this conclusion by studying the charts of known reincarnations of individuals from higher cognition, such as those provided by Steiner in his lectures on Karmic Relationships, where the precise birth dates/times could also be known.

The geocentric chart, therefore, reflects past Karma which has been embedded in a given incarnation and will unfold influences on various aspects of the person's destiny, mostly at the level of physical and life circumstances. These are the result of inner qualities and capacities developed in the previous incarnation. Even at this level, there is some leeway for the personality, mainly in how they respond to those circumstances. The planetary configurations against the background of the Zodiac should be understood as the outer physiognomy of spiritual beings of the higher hierarchies (non-spatially) at work within these Spheres. The charts present sort of a snapshot of these spiritual forces in relation to the individual's development at any given incarnation. Actually, we could say the individuality plans his/her incarnation between death-rebirth based on how these forces will be aligned, with the goal of being conceived-born when the alignments are most conducive to their mission for that incarnation, based on both their accumulated past Karma (negative and positive) and their future Karmic potential (what tasks within the Cosmic organism they are seeking to fulfill going forward). So it is all structured from the top-down by intentional spiritual forces and the physical Cosmos, and these conceptual systems, simply present dim opportunities for us to learn about the archetypal forces between birth-death, just like the rest of the Earthly sensory spectrum. Of course, the learning opportunities become more lucid and profound, revealing deeper layers of meaning, the more we are able to evolve our cognition during life. There is also a more imaginative approach to astrological science which Powell mentions in the book, relating to how we understand the qualities of the Zodiacal constellations.

The Hermetic heliocentric chart speaks more to the future Karmic potential of an individual based on their soul-spirit talents, capacities, etc. The planetary forces are associated with the sevenfold lotus flowers in each human indiviudal, which are the microcosmic image of the former. The configurations at birth, such as Saturn square with the Sun, Jupiter in opposition to Venus, Mars in conjunction with Mercury, etc. can give us concrete ideas of what potential inner forces the personality can unfold in a given incarnation. (Saturn - crown, Jupiter - brow, Mars - larynx, Sun - heart, Mercury - solar plexus, Venus - sacral, Moon - root). Each lotus flower is connected with definite spiritual forces and can work their influences more in the life of thinking, of the will, or in the life of feeling through dynamic interplay. These relations are all reflected in the Hermetic chart configurations. So there is an always an interference of Karmic destiny (past) and Karmic potential (future) in a given incarnation, although now we have reached the stage where the latter can be unfolded more and more strongly by transmuting the former. We do that by becoming more conscious of our Karmic destiny via evolved cognition and its tool such as astrological science. Really we should consider it a sub-branch of spiritual science as a whole. Then we are not only working against the forces of our destiny, but with them. We become who we are intended to be without so many winding detours, so to speak.

I have not yet had a chance to read von Halle, but I hear great things. Actually Powell quotes her a lot as well. He compares her to St. Francis of Assisi, which is very high praise! I will need to check out her writings soon. Powell also discusses the descent of Christ into the subearthly spheres in this article.

https://sophiafoundation.org/wp-content ... CHRIST.pdf

Thanks, Ashvin, this is so well explained, and yes, really interesting as an additional pathway to approach the riddle of karmic destiny versus karmic potential. I have no notion of astronomy, but I have ordered Powell's book. I feel there is a chance to follow along without too many technical pre-requirements. Also, thanks for the article, I will read it as a complement to von Halles book on the same theme.

[lorenzop]

For 99% of the folks that hear Christ's message and decide to follow it - the main attraction is the '11th hour redemption'.
Jesus shows up and says 'I forgive you' and vast majority of Christians respond with 'You are our guy.'
Essentially, people can be mean spirited, greedy, lustful and even murderous; and in the 11th hour have that moment of redemption, and everything is fine (off to heavan).
Granted, the above is a distortion of Christ's message, and some here have a more exalted take, but the fact remains, the '11 hour redemption' has dominated the West, and frankly, has contributed to to demise of the civilization.

[AshvinP]

For 99% of the folks that hear Christ's message and decide to follow it - the main attraction is the '11th hour redemption'.
Jesus shows up and says 'I forgive you' and vast majority of Christians respond with 'You are our guy.'
Essentially, people can be mean spirited, greedy, lustful and even murderous; and in the 11th hour have that moment of redemption, and everything is fine (off to heavan).
Granted, the above is a distortion of Christ's message, and some here have a more exalted take, but the fact remains, the '11 hour redemption' has dominated the West, and frankly, has contributed to to demise of the civilization.

Right, Lorenzo, and this is a symptom of the same flattened cognition we are always criticizing here, in so far as it remains comfortable with its conceptual understanding and refuses to evolve. Since that mentality pridefully assumes its own conceptual container is the highest perspective needed to comprehend the Divine, it is no surprise that it reaches conclusions of '11th hour redemption'. For it, 'repentance' is merely a reciting of verbal conceptual tokens, dogmas and creeds, which are sufficient for 'salvation'. What was once metanoia - a major, sustained inner transformation - is now flattened into deathbed confessions. Not to mention, the entire fact of reincarnation, and the lawful interplay between incarnations discussed above re: Astrosophy, is brushed aside. Again, it is no surprise that someone cannot imagine a way in which they turn their heart in faith towards Christ and compensate for their Karma if the fact of reincarnation/karma isn't even suspected.

We are all experts at discerning this tendency in other people, but how often do we try to locate it within ourselves? That is the heart of the Christian message - confession and repentance (metanoia) which furthers Self-knowledge. The mystical 'nondual' approach resists this inner cognitive transformation just as fiercely as the evangelical Christians. It places all its hopes for inner knowledge on its experience of the 'beyond' after physical death in the same way, and in the meantime rests comfortable with its conceptual understanding of all the laws of Heaven and Earth. Can we see such things within ourselves or are we going to continually point the fingers at others and complain about the demise of civilization while we are pointing? It seems 99% of the 1% of people who have perceived the temptation of responsibility-free salvation in the Christian community, also don't realize they are attracted by the same things as the other 99% in their own domains of religious experience.

[Federica]

For 99% of the folks that hear Christ's message and decide to follow it - the main attraction is the '11th hour redemption'.
Jesus shows up and says 'I forgive you' and vast majority of Christians respond with 'You are our guy.'
Essentially, people can be mean spirited, greedy, lustful and even murderous; and in the 11th hour have that moment of redemption, and everything is fine (off to heavan).
Granted, the above is a distortion of Christ's message, and some here have a more exalted take, but the fact remains, the '11 hour redemption' has dominated the West, and frankly, has contributed to to demise of the civilization.

Heja Lorenzo welcome back!
Listen that's a false question, and by the way it took me 2 seconds on YT to find a video called Redemption from Unthinkable Crimes | Thich Nhat Hanh. Do you mean you would forbid the possibility of forgiveness/redemption? How to move forward on any path without redemption? This is the path opener, because it's good for both sides: the one who forgives and redeems, and the one who is redeemed by that same forgiveness. Through redemption, harmful action is turned inside out, and both sides move forward. Redemption is key when we see life, and life events (especially the 'unjust') beyond the boundaries of the present incarnation. Then the inexplicability and unfairness of life starts to find its meaningful context, and one can start to focus less on injustice, and how to revenge, and more on the healing repayment of karmic debt by through suffering, and how to forgive.