Illustrated World Conceptions (by Cleric)

Any topics primarily focused on metaphysics can be discussed here, in a generally casual way, where conversations may take unexpected turns.
User avatar
AshvinP
Posts: 5462
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:00 am
Location: USA

Illustrated World Conceptions (by Cleric)

Post by AshvinP »

I just happened across a document in my Google Docs which, if I remember correctly, is a post by Cleric from the old Kastrup forum. It may have been the first post I encountered from him. Apparently it was created on 12/4/2020, so it is definitely a trip down memory lane :) . I don't remember it being posted on the new forum, so I am going to share it below, since it is an excellent illustration of various modern world conceptions, their key similarities/differences, and their signature ideas and practices. No matter how well we think we already know these things, it is always helpful to rekindle our intuition, inspiration, and imagination through such presentations.

***

Below I'll present (my personal) view of few world conceptions and provide few key points for each of them. The list is in no way exhaustive, nor do the key points capture everything of importance.

The drawings aim to represent symbolically the conscious experience of a first-person perspective. The goal is to form a picture in the way this inner experience is understood and viewed according to the different world conceptions.


Materialism/Physicalism


Image


We start with probably the most widespread outlook of our modern times.

-We experience sensory perceptions that are assumed to inform us about an outer and objective physical world
-The inner, subjective life is experienced as thoughts, feelings and will, gravitating around the sensory world
-All subjective experiences are considered emergent effects of the workings of a brain within the objective world
-The I is assumed to be a subjective effect of recursive brain self-reference, aiming to bring coherence within the chaos of experiences
-The existence of subconscious parts of the psyche is accepted but any possibilities of bringing their contents to consciousness are doubted (if consciousness is the result of the workings of the brain, it is assumed that we are experiencing the “output”, like the pixels on a screen. It does not make much sense to be able to follow the pixels inside the electric circuits, they remain outside consciousness)
-Death is the end of conscious life
-Source of knowledge is reason applied towards the sensory world (scientific method). Ideas within the mind (for example cause and effect) are mapped to the sensory perceptions and assumed to reflect the laws of Nature. Verification is through experiment
Morality has no basis in the objective world. All conscious and moral life is epiphenomenon of the interaction of matter. As such it is not possible to have universally agreed upon morality because every moral system is an arbitrary construction and does not reflect some universal moral law of nature


Idealism


Image


Here we present idealism that is strictly intellectual-philosophical – that is, the answers are sought within the mind.

-The contents of experience are considered as the given reality – no worlds of different nature are sought behind them
-Subconsciousness is assumed to be the domain of the Idea, Mind at Large, Cosmic Consciousness, etc.
-The possibility of conscious access to that domain is a matter of opinion. Some might consider it impossible and only the contents of the conscious soul life to be knowable
-Access might be considered possible which raises the question of “how?” This usually leads to the need for alternative forms of consciousness and that is usually opposed by the intellect
-If, after all, the path of the intellect is pursued, knowledge turns into the use of abstract thinking in order to build a thought structure that reflects the supposed structure of the subconscious domain. As long as parallels can be drawn between the abstract thought model and direct experience the theory is satisfactory
-The I is experienced but its ontological origin is a matter of opinion
-Consciousness after death is a matter of opinion
-Source of knowledge is reason matched against experience
-Morality varies but as a whole moral conduct can be understood as intrinsic part of reality


Exoteric religions


Image


Here we include very broadly such world conceptions where the soul feels more or less enclosed within itself but believes that there's a Divine world underlying existence.

-Belief in one or more higher entities (or maybe void) responsible for the existence of the World
-The soul/I is created by the Divinity(ies) (or emerge from the void)
-The soul/I moves to another realm after death (heaven, hell, non-being, etc.)
-Reincarnation may be accepted or it is conceived that new souls are created for each life in a body
-The divine worlds in general are inaccessible to consciousness but religious institutions provide counsel
-Main method of spiritual work is prayer
-Research into the workings of the sensory world is only for practical matters and not for search of truth
-Source of knowledge is religious revelation written in sacred texts
-Morality has the form of teaching/laws revealed from the higher beings for the souls to follow


“New age”-like philosophies


Image


These are more or less mix and match of the most varied ingredients. Some of the more common elements are:

-The basis of the World is spiritual, often with God/Source formatting His energies in different matrices/levels/worlds of existence
-The soul/I is a spark/limited perspective of God/Source
-The soul incarnates through worlds of varying density to gain experience (specific bodies are needed for the specific worlds). Reincarnation is accepted
-The life of the soul is loosely connected to the world it is inhabiting. As long as it is free of any attachments to that world (Karma) it is free to travel to other worlds
-Focus is on the life of souls, how to avoid entanglement with the worlds, how to express the highest aspirations (intrinsic to God/Source) as Love, Goodness, Compassion, etc.
-Souls are also loosely connected to each other. They may form groups that follow similar paths of evolution but often it is envisioned that a given world (for example the Earthly realm) is more like a “cosmic inn”, where souls of the most varied backgrounds and origins (different galaxies, etc.) come together to have their unique experiences
-The workings of the worlds are mainly of sci-fi character (energies, dimensions, vibrations, matrices, etc.), rarely with any practical application
-Methods of spiritual work are most varied – prayer, meditation, trance, psychedelics, physical practices (yoga, chi gung, ...) etc.
-Sources of knowledge are metamorphosed ancient teachings, repurposed scientific research, psychic sources (dreams, visions, channeling). Personal experience of higher realities rarely reaches beyond symbolic visionary clairvoyance. Most commonly there is a human figure in touch with higher beings that provides information for other souls
-Morality is based on the understanding that “we are all one” so most of moral conduct follows naturally



Mystically inclined esoteric traditions


Image


These traditions are way too varied and complex usually originating in the ancient East but in the way they are imported in the modern West, they usually carry some basic traits:

-The basis of the world is spiritual and man partakes in that same world with his consciousness
-The nature of the I is varied: sometimes considered strict illusion with no basis in the foundations of existence, in other cases it has its origin within more fundamental states
-Usually includes a higher state (Nirvana, non-dual state, etc.) which can be experienced within the earthly life through sufficient development. The person becomes Enlightened
-Reincarnation occurs until the soul works out its Karma then it is free to ascend to the higher stages of existence (merging with Cosmic awareness, living in non-dual state, etc.)
-The material world follows its own course of development (cycles, Yugas, etc.) but the soul is connected with it only as long as its Karma keeps it reincarnating into that world
-Interest in the workings of the sensory world is minimal (it is illusion, maya)
-Interest in intellectual conceptions is also minimal. Thinking/ego is usually considered illusory, closely related to the material body and thus only clouding the purely spiritual perception of the soul
-Main method of work is meditation. Main goal is to transcend the thinking mind, emotional attachments, etc. and experience mystical states of pure awareness
-Knowledge is important as far as it guides the soul to avoid the entanglements of the world. Understanding of the worlds below Nirvana (astral, etheric, etc.) is not essential. They are to be transcended
-Sources of knowledge are sacred texts, spiritual masters and personal mystical experiences
-Morality is based primarily on the striving for perfection, in the sense of freeing oneself from Karmic entanglements. This results in compassionate moral conduct that avoids inflicting pain on others. Whether one should help others varies. In some views it is interfering with others’ Karma (and thus creating Karma for ourselves). In another view helping others is beneficial for both souls.


Esoteric Christianity


Image


Ever since the Christ Event there has always been a more concealed spiritual stream that sought to penetrate the deeper consequences of that event. The more external aspect (life and deeds of Jesus) became the widespread exoteric Christianity.

The following points will be more in number and detail, not because we want to give undue credit but simply because there are more things that make Esoteric Christianity different compared to other traditions and we have to point (at least some of) these differences out.

-Existence has a spiritual foundation
-There is one World consisting of spiritual beings at different degrees of development. They form complex relationships. The human being evolves as one of the ranks of beings within this environment
-The idea of World development/evolution is central. Just as a man passes through childhood, puberty, adulthood and each period is connected with specific biological changes, so is the Solar system passing through stages of development
-The soul/I has complex structure that is closely related with the gradual evolution of the bodily sheaths – physical, etheric, astral
-Development of the “bodies” is mirroring the development of consciousness
-The different spiritual worlds (astral, etc.) are not separate per se but are related to the contents of experience at the different degrees of consciousness (just as we need a working physical eye in order to be conscious of a world of light and color). In this sense all worlds are at the same place, interpenetrating each other and the corresponding degrees of consciousness reveal their contents and beings
-The content of ordinary soul life (perceptions, thoughts, feelings, etc.) is a symbolic experience of the interactions with spiritual beings (in the way that the ripples on a water surface are the result of the underwater and atmospheric currents). As higher stages of consciousness are attained the beings themselves are perceived and not just the symbols.
-The evolution of the soul is closely related to the evolution of the Solar System. They have interdependent existence.
Reincarnation and Karma are essential
-For the Earth period (the one we find ourselves in) the Christ Event is of central importance. The Christ Being is a macroscopic Sun Being that dwelt within the body of Jesus for three years (from the baptism at Jordan river to the crucifiction)
After the death on the cross the Christ becomes permanently connected to the Earth body, in certain sense fructifying it, connecting his Macrocosmic I to the body of the Earth and thus being immediately accessible to the incarnated souls. In this respect there is something objectively different in the constitution of the planetary organism of the Earth before and after the Christ Event
-Religious life before Christ has the goal to guide human development in such a way that man becomes ready to receive the gift of self-consciousness and freedom. The whole of earthly history has been one of gradual evolution of consciousness from dream-like, instinctive, group consciousness to the fully awake self-reflecting I consciousness
-The question of the I is central. As long as man tries to understand his I only through abstract thinking, he only perceives the “fruits” (thoughts) of the I but the I itself remains unknown (as the eye can not see itself). When man tries to replace his I with its thought reflection it is as if he stands before a mirror and believes that his reflection is the actual man. We do this for example when we look at the description of the brain and imagine that our I emerges from that description. Such approach is inspired by beings that are called Ahrimanic or collectively Ahriman
-On the other hand, when man seeks to ascend to a higher existence either by denying his I or by imagining that he'll be simply translated to a higher existence (usually after death) he is influenced by beings called Luciferic or collectively Lucifer
-Neither through Ahriman, nor through Lucifer can man penetrate the secret of his own being. Both are diverting his attention from the essential, leading him to dream about the deeper nature of existence but not really reaching living experience of the true grounds of being. They are pulling him in opposite directions, never letting him find the balance in the center
-Only through Christ can man penetrate to the depths of his being, by virtue of the fact that He is the archetypal I AM that gave man his I in the first place (although only gradually awakening to this fact). To have true knowledge of our essential being is to reach a higher stage of consciousness where we can directly experience the Cosmic origin of our spiritual core
-In this sense true Christianity is no longer a religion because it does not require faith and obedience to laws received by revelation. Instead it is the living science of the innermost structure of man. Not dry theoretical science but actual living penetration within the inner core of being through higher forms of consciousness
-The meditative method of Esoteric Christianity does not strive to put aside the I and look for experiences outside of it but rather, meditation goes through the I – initially through intimate experience of thinking since thinking is the most immediate expression of the I (the Word, Logos). Focus is not on the product of thinking itself but on slowly shifting to the actual process that precedes the formation of ordinary thoughts. We reach the perception of this process by attaining a higher form of cognition which also reveals a higher form of the I
-Knowledge is obtained through studying, prayer, meditation, physical practices, arts. In all of these the living experience of our spiritual activity is of prime importance. In the living and vivid experience of our own thinking we are already experiencing a spiritual reality. By degrees these experiences lead us to the higher perceptions that confirm what we have previously experienced only in thoughts
-Evolution does not extricate the soul from the world. The sensory perceptible world (the Solar System) is the “crystalized shadow” of the Cosmic Man, having the Christ as his I. Evolution is a gradual process by which what is now the outer world is being spiritualized to become contents of (higher) consciousness. In this respect everything in the world is of interest to the soul because everything has to find its place in the grand scheme of things. -The soul is not alienated from the World but exactly the opposite – it penetrates everything because in it the soul finds the reflection of its higher being
Beings as the bodhisattvas who transition to the rank of Buddha (like Siddhartha Gautama) no longer have the need to incarnate in a physical body – that is, their I has nothing more to learn through the interaction with nervous system and senses. But they don’t leave the evolution of the Solar System. It is just that they can be much more productive towards the World development if they act spiritually from the higher worlds, rather than by being incorporated into a body on Earth
-Higher development of man does not simply translate our I into a higher realm. Instead we experience the death of the ordinary ego and being born anew in the higher realm experienced through a higher form of cognition. To be sure, at our stage of evolution we do not yet feel as if this higher I is our own possession (as we feel about our ordinary ego). Rather we experience in the higher state how this higher ego thinks our ordinary ego into existence. The ordinary ego does not disappear – we still are this ego – but now we understand that life would unfold in the most beneficial way only if we conduct it according to the higher perspective
-Morality in this sense is not a set of predefined laws nor the following of an abstract general principle. It is through actual penetration in reality and the relationships of beings that the most fruitful path for evolution is illuminated. Then our I is free to make this path its own out of Love for it
Since our moral conduct is inspired from higher spiritual reality and since within that reality the lives of all beings are interdependent, our actions in themselves are in harmony with the highest good
-Not every moral action would feel immediately desirable from our earthly ego's perspective. For this reason morality inspired from higher perception is closely related to sacrifice. Our earthly I, being constantly pulled in different directions by desires needs to have moral strength in order to fulfill out of Love what it perceives as noble and true from the higher standpoint. This might be initially felt as painful (as is any feeling of denied desire) but in the long run our persistence gives fruit tenfold.
-The life inspired by Christ is one of servitude. Only that it is a servitude like no other. Not one out of fear of punishment, neither for salary that we spend for the satisfaction of our own desires. Instead it is a servitude out of pure Love – because as we serve the Whole, we are serving for the highest good of all beings.
LukeJTM
Posts: 88
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2022 11:19 am
Location: UK

Re: Illustrated World Conceptions (by Cleric)

Post by LukeJTM »

What a wonderful find! Thanks for sharing that, Ashvin.

Something that came to mind is I wonder if what is presented here can work in a similar way to Rudolf Steiner's "Human and Cosmic Thought"? Specifically the second lecture where he describes the different metaphysics positions and an example of how a person can reason through all 12.
So I wonder if it could work for here too, but maybe that is too complicated. Maybe it is more difficult to do that similarly to "Human and Cosmic Thought" without some spiritual practice in place to bring some experiential understanding in. But I'm not sure.

Overall I do like the post because it is holistic and shows relations (such as commonalities and where things differ) between the different spiritual outlooks that aren't always noticeable. So in that sense it works like Steiner's lecture 2 (Human and Cosmic Thought) because he did that as well with the different metaphysics positions, and showed the commonalities, and where they differ, and he also went into what makes people personally inclined to one position over another. So I do think this post is like an accompaniment to Human and Cosmic Thought lecture 2.

I would like to ask some questions, if anyone wants to answer feel free to.
Source of knowledge is reason applied towards the sensory world (scientific method). Ideas within the mind (for example cause and effect) are mapped to the sensory perceptions and assumed to reflect the laws of Nature. Verification is through experiment
This is quoted from the materialism section. I am trying to understand how this works in first person state. I have some idea of this vaguely. An example is gravity. Obviously there is something going on with that objectively, but there is a conceptual picture we bring into that percieved phenomenon. If I drop some objects on the ground, they fall. Now I can make some thought-connections there with what I just perceived. Maybe I can create some equations or mathematical calculations to understand things better. Now some other concepts are needed, like velocity, acceleration, mass, and so on. So more thought-connections are made. But my understanding is still vague right now. So any elaboration on this point would help a lot, or some practical ways of understanding this more deeply or something like that.
Sources of knowledge are metamorphosed ancient teachings, repurposed scientific research, psychic sources (dreams, visions, channeling). Personal experience of higher realities rarely reaches beyond symbolic visionary clairvoyance. Most commonly there is a human figure in touch with higher beings that provides information for other souls
This is quoted from the new age-like philosophies section. My guess is that the symbolic clairvoyance is probably coming from people being in a trance type of state of consciousness. Fuller or more awake-like consciousness would provide a larger perspective maybe? I'm not sure though. Does anyone here have some knowledge or experience to share regarding that?
Main method of work is meditation. Main goal is to transcend the thinking mind, emotional attachments, etc. and experience mystical states of pure awareness
This is in the context of the non-dual section. What is pure-awareness/consciousness, as it is understood in esoteric streams (i.e. Anthroposophy)? Do people just see it as more of a stepping-stone or a threshold into the next stage of spiritual development? What has people's experiences on here been with this?
As a secondary question to that, I had a thought that maybe pure-consciousness was the highest step in previous epochs, but now we can go further than it to understand things more deeply and precisely. But I'm not sure. Has there been much discussion about this on here?
User avatar
AshvinP
Posts: 5462
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:00 am
Location: USA

Re: Illustrated World Conceptions (by Cleric)

Post by AshvinP »

LukeJTM wrote: Fri May 12, 2023 7:02 pm What a wonderful find! Thanks for sharing that, Ashvin.

Something that came to mind is I wonder if what is presented here can work in a similar way to Rudolf Steiner's "Human and Cosmic Thought"? Specifically the second lecture where he describes the different metaphysics positions and an example of how a person can reason through all 12.
So I wonder if it could work for here too, but maybe that is too complicated. Maybe it is more difficult to do that similarly to "Human and Cosmic Thought" without some spiritual practice in place to bring some experiential understanding in. But I'm not sure.

Overall I do like the post because it is holistic and shows relations (such as commonalities and where things differ) between the different spiritual outlooks that aren't always noticeable. So in that sense it works like Steiner's lecture 2 (Human and Cosmic Thought) because he did that as well with the different metaphysics positions, and showed the commonalities, and where they differ, and he also went into what makes people personally inclined to one position over another. So I do think this post is like an accompaniment to Human and Cosmic Thought lecture 2.
Luke,

I think there is definitely a correspondence. The approaches to knowledge illustrated above probably associate more directly with the 7 'moods' discussed by Steiner in that lecture.


Image


A key point here is that, with normal development, people are generally guided to these outlooks and moods by Karmic destiny, which may even unfold in definite stages corresponding to Zodiacal and planetary influences during the 7 year stages of life or perhaps some other rhythmic periods (notice there are 7 planets besides Earth in all traditional cosmology). Of course most people are unaware of that process, so they assume it was reached only by the 'evidence' and sound reasoning. Then they begin to idolize a particular outlook and view all others with great suspicion. Naturally this leads to stagnation, mistrust, and hostility between people. Everyone feels like they have found the 'truth' and others are stubbornly holding to dogmas. People spend the better part of their lives and careers arguing over who is right, as we unfortunately see a lot of these days. Think of how much mental energy is wasted on such things, which could be repurposed to more practical human ideals.

On the fully conscious spiritual path, we can awaken to this process, even if only conceptually at first, and understand the outlooks and moods as tools/instruments of our core spirit, our true I-being, on its continual ascent into the Divine Cosmos. We won't get attached to any particular standpoint, but fluidly move through them according to what phenomenal processes and what aspects of our first person experience we are investigating. If we want to study only the mineralizing processes in nature, for ex., we may take a more materialistic outlook with an empirical mood. But if we want to study the underlying dynamics of human cultural progression over many years, we may adopt a more idealistic or psychistic outlook with an occultic mood. We begin to discern what sort of tools are appropriate in different contexts and also how they can be integrated to form a more holistic understanding of our existence. Then we are taking hold of our destiny in full consciousness, participating in its proper unfoldment.
"Most people would sooner regard themselves as a piece of lava in the moon than as an 'I'"
User avatar
Federica
Posts: 1716
Joined: Sat May 14, 2022 2:30 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Illustrated World Conceptions (by Cleric)

Post by Federica »

LukeJTM wrote: Fri May 12, 2023 7:02 pm I would like to ask some questions, if anyone wants to answer feel free to.
Source of knowledge is reason applied towards the sensory world (scientific method). Ideas within the mind (for example cause and effect) are mapped to the sensory perceptions and assumed to reflect the laws of Nature. Verification is through experiment
This is quoted from the materialism section. I am trying to understand how this works in first person state. I have some idea of this vaguely. An example is gravity. Obviously there is something going on with that objectively, but there is a conceptual picture we bring into that percieved phenomenon. If I drop some objects on the ground, they fall. Now I can make some thought-connections there with what I just perceived. Maybe I can create some equations or mathematical calculations to understand things better. Now some other concepts are needed, like velocity, acceleration, mass, and so on. So more thought-connections are made. But my understanding is still vague right now. So any elaboration on this point would help a lot, or some practical ways of understanding this more deeply or something like that.
As I understand it:

- first person here simply means subjective, conscious standpoint

- concepts are formed (gravity, velocity, acceleration, mass) based on the stimuli provided by the experience of the senses, and functional relations connecting those concepts are developed

- those functional relations are understood - in their quality of products of conscious activity - not as illustrations of the workings of cognitive intents centered in the experiencer, but they are projected out (as in the picture) and taken for the essence of reality itself (laws of nature)

- as process of conscious activity, such projecting is considered to be alone able to lead to exhaustive knowledge of reality
This is the goal towards which the sixth age of humanity will strive: the popularization of occult truth on a wide scale. That's the mission of this age and the society that unites spiritually has the task of bringing this occult truth to life everywhere and applying it directly. That's exactly what our age is missing.
LukeJTM
Posts: 88
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2022 11:19 am
Location: UK

Re: Illustrated World Conceptions (by Cleric)

Post by LukeJTM »

Federica wrote: Sat May 13, 2023 1:18 pm
As I understand it:

- first person here simply means subjective, conscious standpoint

- concepts are formed (gravity, velocity, acceleration, mass) based on the stimuli provided by the experience of the senses, and functional relations connecting those concepts are developed

- those functional relations are understood - in their quality of products of conscious activity - not as illustrations of the workings of cognitive intents centered in the experiencer, but they are projected out (as in the picture) and taken for the essence of reality itself (laws of nature)

- as process of conscious activity, such projecting is considered to be alone able to lead to exhaustive knowledge of reality
Thanks, that clarified that point. I got a bit confused because I was (unconsciously) doing "view from nowhere" when considering that point about laws of nature.
User avatar
Federica
Posts: 1716
Joined: Sat May 14, 2022 2:30 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Illustrated World Conceptions (by Cleric)

Post by Federica »

LukeJTM wrote: Sat May 13, 2023 4:09 pm
Federica wrote: Sat May 13, 2023 1:18 pm
As I understand it:

- first person here simply means subjective, conscious standpoint

- concepts are formed (gravity, velocity, acceleration, mass) based on the stimuli provided by the experience of the senses, and functional relations connecting those concepts are developed

- those functional relations are understood - in their quality of products of conscious activity - not as illustrations of the workings of cognitive intents centered in the experiencer, but they are projected out (as in the picture) and taken for the essence of reality itself (laws of nature)

- as process of conscious activity, such projecting is considered to be alone able to lead to exhaustive knowledge of reality
Thanks, that clarified that point. I got a bit confused because I was (unconsciously) doing "view from nowhere" when considering that point about laws of nature.

Not to be one-sided with what I wrote above, I guess things could be looked at from the other edge of the projection too. As the projecting work is taking shape (as the theorized functional relations are absolutized as laws of nature) the experiencer’s cognitive activity sees itself tasked with the work of accounting, replicating in thought those laws of nature, through disciplined observation-reflection (through experiment). The goal of the mind is considered to be that of extracting models, or maps, that mirror reality (seen as harshly separated, external) and its unfolding as fittingly as possible.

So the object of projection, once projected, is seen as independent-external, and the activity of projection, once executed, is 'recalculated' (though the holder of this view wouldn't use this verb) as an activity of extracting a mental model from that 'external' object.

With this in mind, it's not surprising that the evolution of the physicalist worldview, as it is currently happening, revolves a lot around the question of how external to the object of study an observer really can be, in experimental practice. Probably, as this crucial question will be carried more and more to its consummation, this worldview will come full circle to the necessity of bringing the interplay between cognitive activity and nature of thinking into aware focus, discovering itself right at the center of the circle, in an inevitable first-person view, rather than in an external, replicating side view.
This is the goal towards which the sixth age of humanity will strive: the popularization of occult truth on a wide scale. That's the mission of this age and the society that unites spiritually has the task of bringing this occult truth to life everywhere and applying it directly. That's exactly what our age is missing.
User avatar
Federica
Posts: 1716
Joined: Sat May 14, 2022 2:30 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Illustrated World Conceptions (by Cleric)

Post by Federica »

AshvinP wrote: Fri May 12, 2023 3:57 pm I just happened across a document in my Google Docs which, if I remember correctly, is a post by Cleric from the old Kastrup forum. It may have been the first post I encountered from him. Apparently it was created on 12/4/2020, so it is definitely a trip down memory lane :) . I don't remember it being posted on the new forum, so I am going to share it below, since it is an excellent illustration of various modern world conceptions, their key similarities/differences, and their signature ideas and practices. No matter how well we think we already know these things, it is always helpful to rekindle our intuition, inspiration, and imagination through such presentations.

Such a good thinking aid provided in this overview, Ashvin! On reflection, I wonder if Cleric would have posted this worldview guide today. I guess - and it's really nothing more than a guess - maybe not, because of the risks ingrained in the 'shell' one has to negotiate with, in a high-level summary of this sort. The shell is super appealing to the intellect, and the more zoom out, the more it is appealing. Anyways, for my part, I surely feel much better off with this post than without it, so thank you for sharing :)

Small question: why is the sensory screen always drawn separated from the area of conscious subjective life and not tangential to it?
This is the goal towards which the sixth age of humanity will strive: the popularization of occult truth on a wide scale. That's the mission of this age and the society that unites spiritually has the task of bringing this occult truth to life everywhere and applying it directly. That's exactly what our age is missing.
User avatar
Cleric K
Posts: 1653
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:40 pm

Re: Illustrated World Conceptions (by Cleric)

Post by Cleric K »

Federica wrote: Sun May 14, 2023 9:47 am

Such a good thinking aid provided in this overview, Ashvin! On reflection, I wonder if Cleric would have posted this worldview guide today. I guess - and it's really nothing more than a guess - maybe not, because of the risks ingrained in the 'shell' one has to negotiate with, in a high-level summary of this sort. The shell is super appealing to the intellect, and the more zoom out, the more it is appealing. Anyways, for my part, I surely feel much better off with this post than without it, so thank you for sharing :)

Small question: why is the sensory screen always drawn separated from the area of conscious subjective life and not tangential to it?
This was indeed my first post in the old forum. Here's the thread in question, started by Ashvin (add Eugene and you have a recipe for a long thread :) ) I remember that there were many back and forths, and at that time still very little mention of the phenomenological experience of our soul life and thinking. So I just felt it natural that through such an overview one would find at least some leeway in the suit. Luke is right that there's some relation with Human and Cosmic thought, even though in the latter things are far more concrete. My categorization didn't follow some deeper lawfulness but only aimed to address some world views with which most people would be familiar. The point was not so much to give detailed description of the views but to hint that in our spiritual core we're free and can grasp reality differently by thinking about if differently.
Federica wrote: Sun May 14, 2023 9:47 am Small question: why is the sensory screen always drawn separated from the area of conscious subjective life and not tangential to it?
I don't remember the exact reason I drew it like this but from my today's perspective I take it to mean that more or less through the sensory screen we feel to dip into reality-in-itself. Only the strictest illusionism would consider the screen to be entirely a thin film on the wall of the soul's interior. In most views there's a sense that through our senses we reach into the mystery of the world and that's why (I guess) the screen has been drawn as dipping into the world.
User avatar
AshvinP
Posts: 5462
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:00 am
Location: USA

Re: Illustrated World Conceptions (by Cleric)

Post by AshvinP »

Cleric K wrote: Sun May 14, 2023 7:39 pm
Federica wrote: Sun May 14, 2023 9:47 am

Such a good thinking aid provided in this overview, Ashvin! On reflection, I wonder if Cleric would have posted this worldview guide today. I guess - and it's really nothing more than a guess - maybe not, because of the risks ingrained in the 'shell' one has to negotiate with, in a high-level summary of this sort. The shell is super appealing to the intellect, and the more zoom out, the more it is appealing. Anyways, for my part, I surely feel much better off with this post than without it, so thank you for sharing :)

Small question: why is the sensory screen always drawn separated from the area of conscious subjective life and not tangential to it?
This was indeed my first post in the old forum. Here's the thread in question, started by Ashvin (add Eugene and you have a recipe for a long thread :) ) I remember that there were many back and forths, and at that time still very little mention of the phenomenological experience of our soul life and thinking.

Oh man, that was somewhat painful to revisit :) It's a helpful reminder of how much one's understanding can evolve in the course of a short time, especially if one is introduced to a path of spiritual development. My idealist/spiritual concepts were super flat back then, and hopefully a few years from now I can look back on my current posts and say the same thing! The back and forth with Eugene was eerily reminiscent of more recent discussions, though. And, of course, I didn't really appreciate the phenomenological experience you were pointing to at the time.
"Most people would sooner regard themselves as a piece of lava in the moon than as an 'I'"
User avatar
AshvinP
Posts: 5462
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:00 am
Location: USA

Re: Illustrated World Conceptions (by Cleric)

Post by AshvinP »

LukeJTM wrote: Fri May 12, 2023 7:02 pm
Main method of work is meditation. Main goal is to transcend the thinking mind, emotional attachments, etc. and experience mystical states of pure awareness
This is in the context of the non-dual section. What is pure-awareness/consciousness, as it is understood in esoteric streams (i.e. Anthroposophy)? Do people just see it as more of a stepping-stone or a threshold into the next stage of spiritual development? What has people's experiences on here been with this?
As a secondary question to that, I had a thought that maybe pure-consciousness was the highest step in previous epochs, but now we can go further than it to understand things more deeply and precisely. But I'm not sure. Has there been much discussion about this on here?
Luke,

Indeed that question has been discussed extensively here, since many idealists are partial to Eastern mystical practice. At the most fundamental level, the question revolves around our relationship with the central "I"-being. The Christian esoteric stream, as indicated in the illustration, recognizes that "I"-being as the Christ (it's interesting to notice all the 'I AM' sayings in the Gospels). Our essential "I" is that thread which weaves through all the different realms, planes, substances, bodies, etc. and links the formless Divine to the formed creation, at all scales-levels. It is what always mediates between the poles of existence. Esoteric science recognizes that it is the "I" which, not only allows us to become aware of our spiritual existence through our lower vehicles, but also builds up those lower vehicles and participates in either their growth or decay all throughout life. So we aren't speaking of the "I" in the abstract philosophical terms of the modern age, but as a living spiritual force which animates all willing-feeling-thinking-perception, and is implicit in all physical and organic structures of the World. Even the mineral, plant, and animal kingdoms can be traced to their respective "I"-centers (often referred to as 'group-souls' or 'group-ego'). 

So the Christian esoteric path places the greatest importance on uniting our personal "I"-center with the Divine "I"-center (Christ) and always maintaining the connection. The former is enlivened and ennobled through its attunement to the latter. Practically, this means all spiritual activity should be voluntary and undertaken in lucid thinking consciousness. The biggest practical difference I see between this and the standard 'nondual' practice is that this working through the I-consciousness should manifest with the continual transformation of life itself, in and through our daily spiritual activity. All our dark instinctual and habitual tendencies are truthfully confronted, gradually enlightened, and effortfully attuned to the Divine Will. We are continually working to harmonize our intents with those of our higher Self, which serves the Cosmic organism. What Christ accomplished for humanity is not only limited to our personal sphere of spiritual capacity and experience, but extends to the gradual spiritualization of the Earth organism as a whole, in definite and concrete stages. 

"For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now."

I mention this aspect because I think it is easy for us to get lost in the details of 'nondual' vs. 'higher cognition', trying to tease apart the different practices and experiences (and these differences certainly exist), while losing sight of why it all matters. When we only seek to 'transcend' the thinking "I" into mystical states, we are expressing a desire to abdicate creative responsibility for the future unfoldment of our individual and collective destinies. Then we are working at cross-purposes with the Divine Will, which desires us to increasingly inherit that responsibility, and it should be no surprise that our capacity for spiritual discernment hits a hard ceiling. Then it becomes harder and harder for us to find the motivation to work at perfecting ourselves inwardly. As you correctly point out, there was a time when humanity was not ripe for inheriting that responsibility and therefore certain mystical, shaministic, etc. states of consciousness were the best means of establishing a temporary link with the spirit worlds. But now, through the Christ events, humanity has evolved further and our incarnate "I"-being has become the conscious portal to the higher planes and the shepherd of all the Earth kingdoms. 
"Most people would sooner regard themselves as a piece of lava in the moon than as an 'I'"
Post Reply