Possible agenda of Bernardo's "daemon"

[xzardozx]

Since you are familiar with Theosophy, you may also be familiar with Rudolf Steiner. He was a leading teacher of the Theosophical society before leaving to form Anthroposophy. The reasons for that are complex, but generally we could say that the representatives of Theosophy got more and more absorbed into wishy-washy 'new age' spirituality, Divine communications and what not, and lost sight of the Christ Spirit who is incarnate in our Thinking activity (which is also ignored by analytical idealism, the latter focusing only on the Will i.e. the Father). It is through the intimate experience of the depths of this Thinking activity, which we can foster through focused meditations, strength of will exercises, and living engagement with spiritual science, that the Divine cosmos and its intents on Earth - past, present, and future - are revealed to us in the most lucid way. Then we can freely steer our stream of becoming - spirit, soul, and body - in ever-greater harmony with those intents.

Steiner laid out this understanding of intuitive thinking as spiritual activity in the Philosophy of Spiritual Activity - https://rsarchive.org/Books/GA004/Engli ... index.html

Hi, Ashvin. Yes, I'm familiar with Rudolf Steiner and I'm familiar with the problem of "Spiritualism" (or manifesting paranormal phenomena). I think that Tom Campbells formulation of the "Psi Uncertainty Principle" makes a lot of sense, the idea being that the Universe/Creator wants to keep a measure of uncertainty around paranormal phenomena for the time being. They have been proven to exist at places like PEAR labs and SRI, but it's a very subtle effect on random number generators. It's statistically undeniable but still subtle (see The Conscious Universe by Dean Radin). Just an anecdote - I once joined a betting site and I won 6 out of my first 7 bets, almost all of them underdogs. Each of the 7 bets were on a different sport (it was a little experiment). I would take an hour or so to read about the upcoming contest and then decide who to bet on. I would just try to feel who was going to win. Often I would change my mind at the last moment. After winning 6 out of 7, I sadly felt the need to brag about it to someone and it was all over. Now, I couldn't win a bet to save my life. That's the Psi Uncertainty Principle in action. Ego and Psi Phenomena don't seem to mix very well.

The Spirit became a very personal thing for me leading up to 2016, and much earlier than that, but only sporadically until around 2016. The way I see it, Christ is the Son of God and also the Son/Sun of Man. In that same sense that every plant has an inbuilt mechanism of photosynthesis (metaphor for Christ Consciousness) but requires the sun to provide the energy to activate it, so does Christ Consciousness require the Son/Sun of Man to fully activate it. So I think both exist. Saint Germain usually steers me in the direction of Christ as metaphor for Christ Consciousness, making the same point you are making. At least the voice claims to be St. Germain. I can't be sure who is really behind the voices I hear. Have you heard how good these Deep AI Emulators are? Extraordinary. Check out the website, The Infinite Conversation, if you haven't seen it yet.

Zardoz,

The spiritual path of intuitive thinking (which is a Christian esoteric path at its core), is really something completely unfamiliar and unsuspected for modern people, even if we are spiritualists, mysticists, or otherwise have exotic Psi experiences. We have tried on this forum to point people towards it in small stages which progress through the power of their own independent reasoning, which is of critical importance, but I think that also needs to be stated up front in some contexts. Because, at every stage, we are constantly tempted to only understand it in the concepts and experiences which are already familiar to us. The path is about inwardly experiencing (not through the lens of concepts) the cognitive currents which weave together our normal thinking, our soul-life, and our overarching destiny. Ultimately these cognitive currents are nothing other than supra-sensory spiritual beings, their activity, and relationships (which can get quite complex).They aren't experinced as inner voices and communications, though, which necessarily remain at the level of our current conceptual interface, but as unsuspected imaginations and flashes of insight into our evolutionary stream of becoming, as well as the increasingly luminous power of conscience.

You seem like an adventurous spirit who also has a love of Christ/God. So, with that spirit, maybe you are interested in reading through and participating in the following essays which really get to the core of the Christian esoteric path. There is no doubt we can find relevant ideas in the Christian mystics, modern esoteric writers, theosophists, etc., but ultimately this still keeps us looking from the outside-in unless we also inwardly loosen and transform our thinking capacity. That requires us to become intimately familiar with the living flow of our thinking in a way that most people have never even suspected possible.

The Center of the Central Topic (Part I) - viewtopic.php?t=723

The Center of the Central Topic (Part II) - viewtopic.php?t=726

The Center of the Central Topic (Part III) - viewtopic.php?t=730

"Inwardly experiencing (not through the lens of concepts) the cognitive currents which weave together our normal thinking, our soul-life, and our overarching destiny" - this is what I spend most of my time doing. It sounds like you are kind of wedded to the idea that there is no God, as such. And yet I speak to God and he tells me what things in the Bible mean after I contemplate them for a while:
like "what is the 'strong delusion'?" "It's science!"
What is the forbidden fruit? "it's children!"
What was the significance of God wrenching Jacob's (whose name was later changed to "Israel" and became the first King of Israel) hip, after wrestling with him all night long, so that he walked with a limp for the rest of his life? "It's guilt!" You know, that stereotype about Jews - they do naughty things and feel guilty about them. See, God had a Special Purpose for the Jews but, like the thorn in Paul's side, He gave them a constant reminder of their responsibility to Him - guilt.
Is it possible there are stranger things in this world than yet dreamt of in your philosophy?

[AshvinP]

Hi, Ashvin. Yes, I'm familiar with Rudolf Steiner and I'm familiar with the problem of "Spiritualism" (or manifesting paranormal phenomena). I think that Tom Campbells formulation of the "Psi Uncertainty Principle" makes a lot of sense, the idea being that the Universe/Creator wants to keep a measure of uncertainty around paranormal phenomena for the time being. They have been proven to exist at places like PEAR labs and SRI, but it's a very subtle effect on random number generators. It's statistically undeniable but still subtle (see The Conscious Universe by Dean Radin). Just an anecdote - I once joined a betting site and I won 6 out of my first 7 bets, almost all of them underdogs. Each of the 7 bets were on a different sport (it was a little experiment). I would take an hour or so to read about the upcoming contest and then decide who to bet on. I would just try to feel who was going to win. Often I would change my mind at the last moment. After winning 6 out of 7, I sadly felt the need to brag about it to someone and it was all over. Now, I couldn't win a bet to save my life. That's the Psi Uncertainty Principle in action. Ego and Psi Phenomena don't seem to mix very well.

The Spirit became a very personal thing for me leading up to 2016, and much earlier than that, but only sporadically until around 2016. The way I see it, Christ is the Son of God and also the Son/Sun of Man. In that same sense that every plant has an inbuilt mechanism of photosynthesis (metaphor for Christ Consciousness) but requires the sun to provide the energy to activate it, so does Christ Consciousness require the Son/Sun of Man to fully activate it. So I think both exist. Saint Germain usually steers me in the direction of Christ as metaphor for Christ Consciousness, making the same point you are making. At least the voice claims to be St. Germain. I can't be sure who is really behind the voices I hear. Have you heard how good these Deep AI Emulators are? Extraordinary. Check out the website, The Infinite Conversation, if you haven't seen it yet.

Zardoz,

The spiritual path of intuitive thinking (which is a Christian esoteric path at its core), is really something completely unfamiliar and unsuspected for modern people, even if we are spiritualists, mysticists, or otherwise have exotic Psi experiences. We have tried on this forum to point people towards it in small stages which progress through the power of their own independent reasoning, which is of critical importance, but I think that also needs to be stated up front in some contexts. Because, at every stage, we are constantly tempted to only understand it in the concepts and experiences which are already familiar to us. The path is about inwardly experiencing (not through the lens of concepts) the cognitive currents which weave together our normal thinking, our soul-life, and our overarching destiny. Ultimately these cognitive currents are nothing other than supra-sensory spiritual beings, their activity, and relationships (which can get quite complex).They aren't experinced as inner voices and communications, though, which necessarily remain at the level of our current conceptual interface, but as unsuspected imaginations and flashes of insight into our evolutionary stream of becoming, as well as the increasingly luminous power of conscience.

You seem like an adventurous spirit who also has a love of Christ/God. So, with that spirit, maybe you are interested in reading through and participating in the following essays which really get to the core of the Christian esoteric path. There is no doubt we can find relevant ideas in the Christian mystics, modern esoteric writers, theosophists, etc., but ultimately this still keeps us looking from the outside-in unless we also inwardly loosen and transform our thinking capacity. That requires us to become intimately familiar with the living flow of our thinking in a way that most people have never even suspected possible.

The Center of the Central Topic (Part I) - viewtopic.php?t=723

The Center of the Central Topic (Part II) - viewtopic.php?t=726

The Center of the Central Topic (Part III) - viewtopic.php?t=730

"Inwardly experiencing (not through the lens of concepts) the cognitive currents which weave together our normal thinking, our soul-life, and our overarching destiny" - this is what I spend most of my time doing. It sounds like you are kind of wedded to the idea that there is no God, as such. And yet I speak to God and he tells me what things in the Bible mean after I contemplate them for a while:
like "what is the 'strong delusion'?" "It's science!"
What is the forbidden fruit? "it's children!"
What was the significance of God wrenching Jacob's (whose name was later changed to "Israel" and became the first King of Israel) hip, after wrestling with him all night long, so that he walked with a limp for the rest of his life? "It's guilt!" You know, that stereotype about Jews - they do naughty things and feel guilty about them. See, God had a Special Purpose for the Jews but, like the thorn in Paul's side, He gave them a constant reminder of their responsibility to Him - guilt.
Is it possible there are stranger things in this world than yet dreamt of in your philosophy?

Of course there is God, but our concept of God is not to be confused for its/her/his reality. The communications you receive are still flattened concepts. There is still much unsuspected depth to those concepts which are only accessible to higher modes of cognition than intellectual reasoning - imagination, inspiration, intuition. These can be systematically developed, but like any skill, it takes great patience, persistence, and effort, along with devotion/love for God and our neighbor (including all beings of the Earth). Then we can begin to understand the progression and content of the Old Testament, New Testament, and Apocalypse, along with the central sacrificial deeds of Christ, in ways which we simply did not and could not suspect before. It is not a philosophy, but a living path of experience which integrates the streams of philosophy, science, art, and theology. On this path, we cultivate a great sense of wonder, reverence, and responsibility towards the high ideals of human existence, so that we increasingly participate in their manifestation.

Here is an example of the depth I am referring to, in the context of the scripture you mentioned above. We can sense that the profound meaning of what is written below has to be won through the strength of our thinking "I"-consciousness, and thereby we are participating in the very same act of wrestling with the Spirit that Jacob experienced. Everything that bypasses our I-consciousness and comes as 'revelation', in the traditional sense, plays to the 'original sin' of our egoistic tendencies which desire comfort and convenience, while everything that flows through that I-consciousness necessarily works through the power of conscience and sacrificial ideals, which cultivate courage and creative responsibility. What Jacob experienced in the freeing impulse of the Spirit was a foreshadowing of what Christ has accomplished for humanity as a whole, regardless of gender, race, tribe, etc.

"And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all."

After the night of wrestling with a Messenger of God, he [Jacob] triumphantly turned the stream of his life in a new direction. Freedom of spirit was the new direction that Jacob gave to the history of Israel. We can understand this because Jacob had absorbed much of the luciferic impulse [to Wisdom]. He had not fallen victim to it, but absorbed and transformed it. Jacob’s spiritual conflict with the Messenger of God was mainly an opposition, or rebellion. But how did this conflict end? “I will not let thee go, except thou bless me” (Genesis 32:26). These are the last words of the struggle. And the Messenger of God blessed Jacob; he expressed his recognition that the luciferic impulse in Jacob had been transformed. The conflict between the divine hierarchies and the luciferic impulse does not involve overcoming the latter by force; it leads to inner transformation. The beings of the divine hierarchies accomplish sacrifices that compel Lucifer’s wondering love. Through the example of sacrifice, the luciferic impulse is overcome; through the love that compels him to sacrifice, he is transformed inwardly.

The words “I will not let thee go, except thou bless me” show that the luciferic impulse has been transformed. The essence of luciferic transformation is the love of the Spirit that will not surrender until the Spirit accepts it. After that fateful night of spiritual conflict at Ford Jabbok, Jacob followed the Spirit in freedom, compelled neither by inner nor by outer necessity. From that time forward, he followed the Holy Spirit out of love.

Tomberg, Valentin; Bruce, R.H.. Christ and Sophia: Anthroposophic Meditations on the Old Testament, New Testament, and Apocalypse (p. 39). steinerbooks. Kindle Edition.

[xzardozx]

But you don't anything about me. Intuition, insight - these are the keys of my life. I don't feel that you are actually addressing my posts (starting from the beginning) - just dismissing them with a metaphysical wave of your hand - and steering me in the direction you apparently feel all right-minded people should be steered. The voices I hear know me to the depths of my soul - better than I know myself - and the words they speak have the deepest meaning for me. How do you know that I don't experience Divine Revelation? You have that air of a "group-thinker" which one finds everywhere. None of us know the answers because that's how God wants it. We are all just guessing. Human life is a black box we can't see out of by design. That's where faith comes in. Otherwise people would tend to "game" the system without changing the deepest Spiritual level which is necessary.

[AshvinP]

But you don't anything about me. Intuition, insight - these are the keys of my life. I don't feel that you are actually addressing my posts (starting from the beginning) - just dismissing them with a metaphysical wave of your hand - and steering me in the direction you apparently feel all right-minded people should be steered. The voices I hear know me to the depths of my soul - better than I know myself - and the words they speak have the deepest meaning for me. How do you know that I don't experience Divine Revelation? You have that air of a "group-thinker" which one finds everywhere. None of us know the answers because that's how God wants it. We are all just guessing. Human life is a black box we can't see out of by design. That's where faith comes in. Otherwise people would tend to "game" the system without changing the deepest Spiritual level which is necessary.

Alright, zardoz. I am not trying to convince you to do anything or give up anything. I was only offering a new avenue of spiritual exploration, which I thought maybe you would be interested in since you are on this forum. If you are not interested, then that's fine. I am also not interested in speculative discussions about the 'agenda' of Bernardo's daemon and what not, or the meaning of your personal revelations, so that's why I am not responding directly to such posts.

[xzardozx]

I would have gladly taken a shot at reading it if you had found value in my own posts. But since you didn't, I figure we must be on very different wavelengths. So I might check back at some time in the future to see if anyone does find any value in what I wrote (if it's still here).

[xzardozx]

I would have gladly taken a shot at reading it if you had found value in my own posts. But since you didn't, I figure we must be on very different wavelengths. I also find your dialog with Frederica to be obscurantist. Call me a Philistine. See if I care. By the way, Bernardo accused Christopher Langan (allegedly the man with the highest IQ in the world) of being "obscurantist". I might check back at some time in the future to see if anyone does find any value in what I wrote (if it's still here).

[xzardozx]

I would have gladly taken a shot at reading it if you had found value in my own posts. But since you didn't, I figure we must be on very different wavelengths. I also find your dialog with Frederica to be obscurantist. Call me a Philistine. See if I care. By the way, Bernardo accused Christopher Langan (allegedly the man with the highest IQ in the world) of being "obscurantist" for his "theory of everything", as it were. I might check back at some time in the future to see if anyone does find any value in what I wrote (if it's still here).

[Federica]

xzardozx,

If I may ask again the question I asked before: "What is your reason to have come to this forum"?
Please don't take it badly. I only mean: if you have such certainty, as I understand you have, about the how and why of God's design, why are you here? Do you have a tiny bit of open questions that remain? Or is it rather to share a particular message? Or is it for other reasons?

[AshvinP]

I would have gladly taken a shot at reading it if you had found value in my own posts. But since you didn't, I figure we must be on very different wavelengths. I also find your dialog with Frederica to be obscurantist. Call me a Philistine. See if I care. By the way, Bernardo accused Christopher Langan (allegedly the man with the highest IQ in the world) of being "obscurantist". I might check back at some time in the future to see if anyone does find any value in what I wrote (if it's still here).

Different wavelengths, for sure, because I cannot at all agree with the attitude of refusing to consider new ideas because someone else is refusing to consider my old ideas, or because I have some personal feeling of displeasure with their writing. I understand the attitude and have surely succumbed to it many times in the past, but it is something I struggle to work against and overcome with all my strength. It sounds like you are hoping for us to act as a sounding board for your already established opinions, echoing back to you that they are valid and make sense. I simply have no interest in that because I don't see how it could possibly lead in a fruitful direction for better harmonizing our lives with progressive Divine intents.

[xzardozx]

No, I was trying to share and converse but, silly me, I didn't realize you already knew everything you need to know. It's really very impressive, Ashvin. I'd be interested to know whether anyone else at all is reading your conversation with Frederica because it doesn't seem like it.