Steiner and Schrodinger's Equation

[Federica]

Yes, the book is the one linked there and available for download - the Plant Between Sun and Earth. I also ordered the Projective Geometry book a while back, but that's the one I stopped and will return to.

I have read the first chapter so far. Surely because of my ignorance of Goethe's science, I'm finding for the first time concrete descriptions of sensibly perceptible experiences, like plant-matter, that walk the reader to the uncovering of the archetypal principles at play in plant-nature and plant-growth. I hope this is part of what they teach in Waldorf education. This is accessible and 'common' observation - in the sense that one is invited to do nothing extravagant, nothing more than observing the life of common plants - and yet so different from the standard look we normally apply to plant-life and to life in general. Usually we are blind to the visual language spoken by the plant in space and time, the shapes it draws, the gestures it repeats at various phases of its life-cycle with changing gradation, and the 'simple' symbolism enclosed in these movements.

I can imagine a similar invitation is contained in Wachsmuth's book - I haven't read it yet - and I deem this type of education of our sense of sight is a great complement to all plant exercises in Steiner's HTKTHW. Even the bare essential idea of the nature of plant growth in general, as unfolding and radiating out of a spherical ideal space, in the repeated leaf-bud, then in the flower space, as opposed to the 'infolding' type of growth typical in animal life, is such a simple, yet insightful idea, and also unsuspected from the viewpoint of our everyday fragmented apprehension of reality. This doesn't even seem esoteric knowledge. Our sight just needs to be educated away from its incredibly flattened perspective. But the problem is, it's difficult to realize the flat outlook we apply to the world, until a more unifying, living perspective is made possible by guided observations of this sort.

This is definitely the type of insights one starts to crave on a path of living thinking, because they immediately prove their logic and their depth, not in exclusively artistic-intuitive way, not in exclusively rigorous-scientific way, but in a synthetic, profound way that pins down the nature of the experience in all its phenomenological all-rounded-ness, and invigorates both the head and the heart in one single harmonious movement of knowing.


PS: This quality of phenomenological investigation is better described in the beginning of chapter two, in the form of Goethe's perceptive judgment, that is "a perceiving of the truth within the whole, while observing, so as to reach the archetypal picture or Idea, to which the phenomenon relates".

[AshvinP]

Yes, the book is the one linked there and available for download - the Plant Between Sun and Earth. I also ordered the Projective Geometry book a while back, but that's the one I stopped and will return to.

I have read the first chapter so far. Surely because of my ignorance of Goethe's science, I'm finding for the first time concrete descriptions of sensibly perceptible experiences, like plant-matter, that walk the reader to the uncovering of the archetypal principles at play in plant-nature and plant-growth. I hope this is part of what they teach in Waldorf education. This is accessible and 'common' observation - in the sense that one is invited to do nothing extravagant, nothing more than observing the life of common plants - and yet so different from the standard look we normally apply to plant-life and to life in general. Usually we are blind to the visual language spoken by the plant in space and time, the shapes it draws, the gestures it repeats at various phases of its life-cycle with changing gradation, and the 'simple' symbolism enclosed in these movements.

I can imagine a similar invitation is contained in Wachsmuth's book - I haven't read it yet - and I deem this type of education of our sense of sight is a great complement to all plant exercises in Steiner's HTKTHW. Even the bare essential idea of the nature of plant growth in general, as unfolding and radiating out of a spherical ideal space, in the repeated leaf-bud, then in the flower space, as opposed to the 'infolding' type of growth typical in animal life, is such a simple, yet insightful idea, and also unsuspected from the viewpoint of our everyday fragmented apprehension of reality. This doesn't even seem esoteric knowledge. Our sight just needs to be educated away from its incredibly flattened perspective. But the problem is, it's difficult to realize the flat outlook we apply to the world, until a more unifying, living perspective is made possible by guided observations of this sort.

This is definitely the type of insights one starts to crave on a path of living thinking, because they immediately prove their logic and their depth, not in exclusively artistic-intuitive way, not in exclusively rigorous-scientific way, but in a synthetic, profound way that pins down the nature of the experience in all its phenomenological all-rounded-ness, and invigorates both the head and the heart in one single harmonious movement of knowing.


PS: This quality of phenomenological investigation is better described in the beginning of chapter two, in the form of Goethe's perceptive judgment, that is "a perceiving of the truth within the whole, while observing, so as to reach the archetypal picture or Idea, to which the phenomenon relates".

Well said, Federica, and I concur. It is very helpful to return with our philosophical and spiritual concepts to the dynamics of living processes, especially the plant world that permeates our environment and displays very clear and beautiful rhythms to observe and contemplate. Apart from our own daily rhythms, it is easiest to follow along with the seasonal rhythms of the plant world. It is like this world exists as a constant reminder of our higher harmonious, upward-striving nature that we can reintegrate, whereas the animal world exists more as a reminder of the selfish passions we still need to overcome.

It's very interesting how Nature reveals her secrets to us in direct proportion to our mode of questioning and the types of questions we present her. The polar dynamics of plant life have always been there, but only after we gained the imaginative concepts could we pose the appropriate questions and therefore perceive them clearly. While I was reading the first chapter of the book, I suddenly had the impulse to watch the following:





Our thinking has now devised ways to capture a whole series of developmental stages in a short amount of time, which then opens up the possibility of noticing phenomenal aspects that we would otherwise miss and resonating with the phenomena at a somewhat different level than if we simply relied on natural spatial perception. Of course, this time-lapse technology shouldn't be confused with imaginative or higher spiritual perception, but I would say it is a direct reflection of our thinking that is beginning to permeate the etheric spectrum where 'objects' are conceived in time rather than in space. It is similar to the QM experiments we have devised to conceive the behavior of objects we observe on the physical plane in terms of their potential 'alternative histories'. We can even add soundtracks to make it a more feeling-imbued experience.

[Federica]

It's very interesting how Nature reveals her secrets to us in direct proportion to our mode of questioning and the types of questions we present her. The polar dynamics of plant life have always been there, but only after we gained the imaginative concepts could we pose the appropriate questions and therefore perceive them clearly. While I was reading the first chapter of the book, I suddenly had the impulse to watch the following:





Our thinking has now devised ways to capture a whole series of developmental stages in a short amount of time, which then opens up the possibility of noticing phenomenal aspects that we would otherwise miss and resonating with the phenomena at a somewhat different level than if we simply relied on natural spatial perception. Of course, this time-lapse technology shouldn't be confused with imaginative or higher spiritual perception, but I would say it is a direct reflection of our thinking that is beginning to permeate the etheric spectrum where 'objects' are conceived in time rather than in space. It is similar to the QM experiments we have devised to conceive the behavior of objects we observe on the physical plane in terms of their potential 'alternative histories'. We can even add soundtracks to make it a more feeling-imbued experience.

Yes, great rendering of the sunflower growth in the video! I've also been searching for an appropriate time-lapse to post
The parallel with QM seems far-fetched at first, but it actually makes sense. Ultimately, these are all ways to extend the scope of our meaningful time waves and bring more consciousness to the lawful flow of our becoming. We can do that by accelerating the flattened experience of sequenced events through time - like in the plant time-lapse - or by slowing it down, like in the ceremonial exercise you recently shared, or in Clerics I-think-the-words exercise. In all cases, it's about unhinging the soporific experience of a vastly meaningless or at least undisclosed flow of reality, as it seems to zigzag from one fragmented time frame to another.

Coming back to the plant world, one possible step ahead for me - hopefully the remainder of the book will help explore that - is how to train the eye to notice and feel that something is fundamentally different in those particular plants that, as Steiner said, exhibit a sort of protrusion into the astral. I’m not quoting, I only vaguely remember listening to a lecture. These are poisonous plants, for instance belladonna, and the autumn crocus. I couldn't find any clear time-lapse for these, but it would be interesting to ask: how do certain poisonous plants that incorporate a degree of animal character show an archetypally different process of growth and decay? (supposing that it’s the case)
For example, in the crocus, the flower comes first, and the leaves appear after the flower...

[AshvinP]

It's very interesting how Nature reveals her secrets to us in direct proportion to our mode of questioning and the types of questions we present her. The polar dynamics of plant life have always been there, but only after we gained the imaginative concepts could we pose the appropriate questions and therefore perceive them clearly. While I was reading the first chapter of the book, I suddenly had the impulse to watch the following:





Our thinking has now devised ways to capture a whole series of developmental stages in a short amount of time, which then opens up the possibility of noticing phenomenal aspects that we would otherwise miss and resonating with the phenomena at a somewhat different level than if we simply relied on natural spatial perception. Of course, this time-lapse technology shouldn't be confused with imaginative or higher spiritual perception, but I would say it is a direct reflection of our thinking that is beginning to permeate the etheric spectrum where 'objects' are conceived in time rather than in space. It is similar to the QM experiments we have devised to conceive the behavior of objects we observe on the physical plane in terms of their potential 'alternative histories'. We can even add soundtracks to make it a more feeling-imbued experience.

Yes, great rendering of the sunflower growth in the video! I've also been searching for an appropriate time-lapse to post
The parallel with QM seems far-fetched at first, but it actually makes sense. Ultimately, these are all ways to extend the scope of our meaningful time waves and bring more consciousness to the lawful flow of our becoming. We can do that by accelerating the flattened experience of sequenced events through time - like in the plant time-lapse - or by slowing it down, like in the ceremonial exercise you recently shared, or in Clerics I-think-the-words exercise. In all cases, it's about unhinging the soporific experience of a vastly meaningless or at least undisclosed flow of reality, as it seems to zigzag from one fragmented time frame to another.

Coming back to the plant world, one possible step ahead for me - hopefully the remainder of the book will help explore that - is how to train the eye to notice and feel that something is fundamentally different in those particular plants that, as Steiner said, exhibit a sort of protrusion into the astral. I’m not quoting, I only vaguely remember listening to a lecture. These are poisonous plants, for instance belladonna, and the autumn crocus. I couldn't find any clear time-lapse for these, but it would be interesting to ask: how do certain poisonous plants that incorporate a degree of animal character show an archetypally different process of growth and decay? (supposing that it’s the case)
For example, in the crocus, the flower comes first, and the leaves appear after the flower...

These are great points and questions, Federica. The polar opposite relationship is interesting - the more we 'slow down' our inner activity, in terms of making it more thoughtful, careful, intentional, rhythmic, and so forth, the more we are able to encompass the outer perceptual spectrum holistically in a way that is analogous to the time-lapse photography that 'speeds up' the frames. It's probably worth emphasizing at this point that all of these intellectual methods of finding a more holistic vantage, such as time-lapse or QM or modern astrology and practically all other modern theoretical outlooks and mechanical technologies, are often used as a means of avoiding the inner work that actually extracts their higher symbolic value. So we should always be wary of falling into that trap because, even though we may be following an esoteric path, we still aren't immune from the temptation to substitute outer conveniences for inner work. It is only the latter that redeems the intellectual approaches/technologies as imaginative tools for our endless process of intuitive clarification and orientation.

I remember the lecture you are referencing on the plants with 'protrusion into the astral'. It would stand to reason that there is some differentiation in their morphological form/development that reflects this protrusion, apart from the more inward quality of being poisonous for humans. Perhaps it is too subtle to be noticed even on time-lapse videos. I have no idea.

[Federica]

On projective geometry, I found this very clear, well done old school lecture. For me it has worked well, though the pace may be too slow for some.

[AshvinP]

Think how unintuitive from a classical perspective this is. Imagine that you’re going to the mall. You can go through the park or through the city square. You choose the former. You arrive at the mall and spontaneously decide to go to the store on the right to buy a new dress. Now most people would laugh if they are told that their possible alternative of going through the city square would arrive at the exact same moment at the mall and that the interference of these alternatives makes it 100% certain that you go to the store on the right, instead of another one.

Of course, I’m giving this picture only to amplify the QM example, I’m not saying that we should reason about our human actions in precisely this way. Yet spiritual perception shows that something similar indeed happens. Ashvin quoted how we have to be attentive for all the things that do not happen to us.

On this forum we have often used the QM analogy of 'wavefunctions' of holistic spiritual intents which constructively or destructively interfere through our (mostly instinctive) spiritual activity, thereby manifesting states of the intuitive potential in our stream of becoming or those states remaining as latent possibilities that nevertheless influence our stream as its invisible intuitive context. I wanted to share a passage from Steiner that I recently read which referred to the underlying spiritual reality of this analogy in what I feel was the most explicit way that I have encountered so far.


https://rsarchive.org/Lectures/GA141/En ... 03p01.html

We pay attention only to what actually happens, not to what may be continually happening and which we have escaped. The range of such possibilities is infinitely greater than that of actual happenings.

...All these possibilities which do not become reality on the physical plane exist as forces and effects behind the physical world in the spiritual world and reverberate through it. It is not only the forces which actually determine our life on the physical plane that stream down upon us but also the measureless abundance of forces which exist only as possibilities, some of which seldom make their way into our physical consciousness. But when they do, this usually gives rise to a significant experience. Do not say that what has been stated, namely that numberless possibilities exist, that for example this lecture might have been cancelled, in which case those sitting here would have had different experiences — do not say that this invalidates karma. It does nothing of the kind. If such a thing were said it would imply ignorance of the fact that the idea of karma just presented holds good only for the world of realities within the physical life of men. The truth is that the spiritual life permeates our physical life and there is a world of possibilities where the laws operating as karmic laws are quite different. If we could feel what a tiny part of what we might have experienced is represented by the physical realities and that our actual experiences are only a fractional part of the possibilities, the infinite wealth and exuberance of the spiritual life behind our physical life would be obvious to us.

...Although during the hurry and bustle of daily life people are for the most part disinclined to give rein to feelings of what might have happened, nevertheless there are times in life when events that might have happened have a decisive influence upon the soul. If you were to observe your dream-life more closely, or the strange moments of transition from waking life to sleep or from sleep to waking life, if you were to observe with greater exactitude certain dreams which are often quite inexplicable, in which certain things that happen to you appear in a dream-picture or vision, you would find that these inexplicable pictures indicate something that might have happened and was prevented only because other conditions, or hindrances. intervened. A person who through meditation or some other means makes his thinking more mobile, will have moments in his waking life during which he will feel that he is living in a world of possibilities; this may not be in the form of definite ideas but of feelings. If he develops such feelings he is preparing himself to receive from the spiritual world impressions from human beings who were connected with him in the physical world. Such influences then manifest as genuine dream-experiences which have meaning and point to some reality in the spiritual world. In teaching us that in the life between birth and death karma holds sway, Anthroposophy makes it quite clear that wherever we are placed in life we are faced perpetually with an infinite number of possibilities. One of these possibilities is selected in accordance with the law of karma; the others remain in the background, surrounding us like a cosmic aura. The more deeply we believe in karma, the more firmly we shall also believe in the existence of this cosmic aura which surrounds us and is produced by forces which converge but have been displaced in a certain way, so that they do not manifest on the physical plane.

[Cleric K]

On this forum we have often used the QM analogy of 'wavefunctions' of holistic spiritual intents which constructively or destructively interfere through our (mostly instinctive) spiritual activity, thereby manifesting states of the intuitive potential in our stream of becoming or those states remaining as latent possibilities that nevertheless influence our stream as its invisible intuitive context. I wanted to share a passage from Steiner that I recently read which referred to the underlying spiritual reality of this analogy in what I feel was the most explicit way that I have encountered so far.


https://rsarchive.org/Lectures/GA141/En ... 03p01.html

Great find, Ashvin! Thank you! I've seen similar hints but here it is so explicitly laid down. It's almost hard to believe that this has been stated well before QM has become a thing. It's funny that such a statement would have been seen as insane by the atomistic scientists at the turn of the 20th century. At the same time, if we today try to express deeper intuition in such words we may be accused of piggybacking on serious science and only promoting Quantum Mysticism