Liminal Spaces of Perception (update)

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AshvinP
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Liminal Spaces of Perception (update)

Post by AshvinP »

I would like to present a post here that I developed for a discord forum. It is sort of a recapitulation/update on the liminal spaces essay I wrote here a while ago. I realize that a lot of details and examples could be added to flesh this out further, so I would be happy to hear any feedback people have in that respect or any criticisms of how the principles are presented below (tyia, Federica :) ).

***

The reason I keep pointing to spiritual activity - that we experience as "thinking" in our current state (but the ancients experienced as "divine revelations") - as the very process by which reality is structured and evolves, is that until we understand this principle with intimacy, everything we reason to or intuit will seem "ad hoc" when it doesn't fit our preferences. We simply can't pursue any objective knowledge of reality in this way.

For instance, let's consider written text. The perceptions, in this case, are the letters that make up the words, the words that make up the sentences, the sentences that make up the paragraphs, and so forth. What actually takes place when these perceptions present themselves to our eyes, in the case of reading? We perceive the outer structure of those words, sentences, paragraphs, etc. - which we call their "syntax" - and that syntax stimulates our thought to go searching for the inner conceptual meaning which makes sense of that syntactical structure - which we call the "semantics". No words have semantic meaning in isolation, but rather that meaning lives in the empty spaces between the letters, words, and the sentences (we refer to this whole implicit structure as the meaningful "context").

Consider the following sentence in three formulations to experience carefully how your own cognitive activity responds when perceiving them. We should try to move slowly through the progression and pay close attention to how our cognitive discernment of meaning changes between them. Most of the value here will come from the intimate experience of what is unfolding - although it is helpful to put this experience into concepts later, we should first focus on the intuitive experience without any prejudices or assumptions.


(1) "hereliesthewhitemousewhowaseatenbythebrowncat".



(2) "hereli esthewhitemo usewhowaseate nbytheb rowncat".



(3) "herelies thewhitemouse, whowas eatenbythe browncat".



What else have I done in formulations #2 and #3 above apart from creating and enlarging (or modifying with punctuation) empty spaces within the syntax of the letters and words for your conceptual activity to penetrate in a different, more inviting way? Nothing else has been done besides that. Note how the empty spaces do not automatically bring meaning to the structure, but only reveal it after our cognitive activity has been invited in to assume its 'shape' and we accept the invitation with meaningful engagement. It is through our cognitive activity that the implicit meaningful context becomes manifest in the perceptions. The same principle discerned above will also apply to all other perceptual phenomena in our experience. Consider music when we are listening, singing, or dancing to it and experiencing its underlying rhythm. This rhythm is experienced, usually subconsciously, by the silent spaces ("intervals") between the beats, notes, and chords.

We have to be clear here that the above doesn't mean perceptual experience is irrelevant. If our cognitive activity working from the liminal spaces didn't have the perceptual structures of letters and phrases to meet as resistance, we would only live in some nebulous meaning without any definite resolution. In fact, cognitive activity without any perceptual resistance is unconsciousness. The lucid meaning in our experience comes from the continual interplay of spiritual activity and perceptual structures. We cannot reduce that meaning to the perceptual structures (as materialists do), nor can we reduce that meaning to the 'pure spiritual activity' (as many mystics/spiritualists do). The perceptual frames of our experience all need to find their proper place for genuine insight to arise, but it's only that they will remain a confusing jumble of perceptual details until we become intimately familiar with the cognitive activity that works in from between the details. Once we set out on that path, we should return to the perceptual details that Nature or Culture presents to us and organize them into harmonious constellations of meaning.  

Another example we could imaginatively work with is when we are playing an instrument. Let's imagine a piano. What makes the difference between a succession of notes coming out as flat and mechanical progression and them sounding with organic freshness, depth, and inspiration? Once our fingers are set into motion - the whole chain of physiological processes through our cells, tissues, nerves, muscle fibers, etc. - it becomes a completely deterministic process. Once that process is set in motion, it can't be retracted by our will. We can imbue this image with moral significance if we imagine throwing a punch to someone else's face - in the liminal space before we throw the punch, we can shape our feelings and intention, but once we set the will in motion, there is no stopping the punch in mid-stream and retracting. 


Image


That frame is an image of Bernardo's "blind will" - once the process is set in motion, there is no turning back from the consequences. It is "blind" because we have not yet permeated that aspect of our organism with cognition. Theoretically, if our "I"-ness was awake in our deep physiology, then it could micromanage the process and stop the punch a millimeter from the other person's face, but in our ordinary state, we are deeply asleep to such processes and therefore it quickly gets beyond our control. It is very important to be clear on where/when we actually have creative control in our stream of experience. When we actually have control is only that duration between the physiological processes and the corresponding punches or notes that are struck on the piano, where we can imbue them with noble feelings and intents. The latter will make the difference between a bad rendition of a melody, a good rendition, or a great rendition (while a perfect rendition is still out of reach). It will make the difference between reacting to a violent punch with an even more violent punch or, instead, turning the other cheek. 

We can discern that the same principle applies to the 'frames' of our individual and collective streams - the days, months, seasons, and years of our individual existence; the epochs, ages, and aeons of human history. Our individual memories are such frames that are united by an overarching spiritual activity, which we broadly and dimly sense as the quality of our "I"-ness that is present within all memories. We can call those states of being "our memories" because that overarching quality spans them. Yet it is easy to see that the quality of our personal frames, let alone the frames of human history, are not only determined by the spiritual activity of our "I" working within the liminal background. There is also our family and friends, our nation, our historical context, our temperament, our habits, our talents, our biology and physiology. Many of these things we were born with, developed very early in childhood, and/or were influenced heavily by a relatively independent social context. All of these labels emerge from our thinking activity that perceives a nested context through which higher-order spiritual activity structures the frames of its existence. It is only human hubris that rationalizes to itself that these nested contexts lack their own overarching "I"-ness.

"When two or three are gathered in my name, there I am in your midst.

That is, the Divine Logos appears in the liminal space where two or three 'personality frames' gather together with lofty thoughts, compassionate feelings, and noble intentions. It is within that space that ideal potential is born into the manifest world that could not be realized by any one personality thinking and acting alone. We often refer to this newborn quality as "collective intelligence". It could be spatially analogized to what our thinking perceives in a flock of birds moving in unison across the sky or a swarm of bees. Meaningful qualities of intent, intelligence, and dynamism emerge where we would otherwise perceive something more instinctive, mechanical, and linear.


Image


The above begs the question - is the 'collective intelligence' of animal and human groups something that can be experientially explored by human individuals as well? All esoteric paths across cultures and time periods have answered "yes" and present us with something akin to initiation through the ancient elements - earth, water, air, fire (and perhaps also the ethers - light, sound, life). For our purposes in this context, that practically means a progressive purification and spiritualization of the soul-structure, the life of thoughts, emotions, desires, and impulses. Our normal intellectual and sensory life is analogous to densely packed atoms with very little leeway for the World-creative Spirit to flow and shine through. 


Image


As we progress with our inner work - for ex. through the six 'subsidiary' exercises given by Steiner in his lectures - we are 'warming' and 'loosening' this dense soul-structure so the water, breath, and warmth of the Spirit is met with more leeway to flow through. That is a process of soul purification (catharsis), spiritual illumination, and spiritual union. We can sense our conceptual thinking and sensory perception becoming more fluid and imaginative, more inspired by lucidly outlined ideals, more intuitive, loving, and motivated to attain the harmonious development of all beings. The liminal spaces in which the Spirit can be active through our soul-life on the physical-perceptual plane have expanded. The above is only a crude metaphor for something that can be inwardly engaged and experienced at levels of profound depth. The ways in which we can intimately experience this depth of spiritual activity are completely unsuspected to our modern habits of thinking. So we need to always approach these things with epistemic humility, appreciation of our living experience, and childlike openness to the unfamiliar and unexpected.
"Most people would sooner regard themselves as a piece of lava in the moon than as an 'I'"
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Re: Liminal Spaces of Perception (update)

Post by Federica »

Sure, Ashvin, I'll gladly write my comments. It seems to me there is much more than the liminal spaces of perception in your post :) I'd say, you're writing it for people who are already familiar with these questions, is it so?
In this epoch we have to be fighters for the spirit: man must realise what his powers can give way to, unless they are kept constantly under control for the conquest of the spiritual world. In this fifth epoch, man is entitled to his freedom to the highest degree! He has to go through that.
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Re: Liminal Spaces of Perception (update)

Post by AshvinP »

Federica wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2023 9:08 pm Sure, Ashvin, I'll gladly write my comments. It seems to me there is much more than the liminal spaces of perception in your post :) I'd say, you're writing it for people who are already familiar with these questions, is it so?

Thanks, Federica.

The person I am responding to is familiar with analytic idealism and some esotericism, to the extent that "divine logos", the idea of "initiation", and such would not be too confusing. He knows about Steiner and Anthroposophy. But he isn't familiar with PoF and I would say the role of thinking is firmly in the blind spot. He tends towards mystic reductionism. Lately, he mentioned NDEs, psychedelics, and mystical reports of certain experiences that may contradict the intentional architecture of the Cosmos or suggest it is Demiurgic :) So I feel the only viable path forward is to bring it back to the fundamental importance of spiritual activity in meaning-making and how it spans all the 'dark' liminal spaces of experience, including states of 'altered consciousness'.

I would like the post to be more fleshed out, though. I am planning on including something about the states of dreaming and sleeping as examples of liminal spaces from which fresh meaningful impulses arrive to structure our conceptual-sensory experience. The part about the initiation process and spiritualization of concepts could probably use some more context and detail as well. But I appreciate and look forward to any feedback you have!
"Most people would sooner regard themselves as a piece of lava in the moon than as an 'I'"
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Re: Liminal Spaces of Perception (update)

Post by Federica »

AshvinP wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2023 4:48 pm I would like to present a post here that I developed for a discord forum. It is sort of a recapitulation/update on the liminal spaces essay I wrote here a while ago. I realize that a lot of details and examples could be added to flesh this out further, so I would be happy to hear any feedback people have in that respect or any criticisms of how the principles are presented below (tyia, Federica :) ).

Ashvin, I'm adding blue notes inside your text for clarity (hopefully). I think the post nicely walks the reader towards the realization of the active role of thinking, in approachable way. I just wonder whether some of the examples and expressions could be made even more accessible (remembering how I struggled with some) hence my comments/suggestions. It's all very subjective.
***

The reason I keep pointing to spiritual activity - that we experience as "thinking" in our current state (but the ancients experienced as "divine revelations") - as the very process by which reality is structured and evolves, is that until we understand this principle with intimacy, everything we reason to or intuit will seem "ad hoc"
By "ad hoc" do you mean arbitrary? I see this is part of the meaning in American English. There could be confusion here since, for many, "ad hoc" means: especially prepared for a specific use, function or situation.
when it doesn't fit our preferences. We simply can't pursue any objective knowledge of reality in this way.

For instance, let's consider written text.
I remember this one from the essay :) I tend to think now that the example of written text is complex and maybe not the most straightforward, compared with for example an optical illusion, like the classical picture representing either a vase or two profiles facing each other or similar. The reason is that in text there are added layers of decoding that are not entirely distinguishable from the perceptual visual experience (as Max Leyf said, we paint the labels on the same canvas and with the same brush with which we paint the landscape).
The perceptions, in this case, are the letters that make up the words, the words that make up the sentences, the sentences that make up the paragraphs, and so forth.
My impression is, saying that "the perceptions are the letters" somehow already goes beyond 'pure perception', since before recognizing the existence of a code, we don't perceive "letters", we rather perceive a unified visual field with color and light variations. Maybe something like: "we perceive contrasting color patterns in string form" or similar, that is, an outer structure within the visual field?
What actually takes place when these perceptions present themselves to our eyes, in the case of reading? We perceive the outer structure of those words, sentences, paragraphs, etc. - which we call their "syntax"
I think the way you use the word "syntax" could be confusing, since this isn't the common way. Syntax in the usual sense is not the outer structure of a written text. No syntax can be perceived when we see a written text and we don't master the idiom, for example. Conversely, if we master the idiom well enough, the syntax will be clear from hearing the text alone. Syntax in the usual sense it has in linguistics can only emerge as part of the meaning. The syntax of a sentence is the way morphemes and words and clauses are related and connected with each other in meaning, through subordination, coordination, direction, time, etcetera. Maybe "visual organization of the patterns" or similar is less subject to misunderstanding?
- and that syntax stimulates our thought to go searching for the inner conceptual meaning which makes sense of that syntactical structure - which we call the "semantics". No words have semantic meaning in isolation, (disputable? They do have it, but we continually remake meaning as we grasp more of the context around the isolated word, I would say )but rather that meaning lives in the empty spaces between the letters, words, and the sentences (we refer to this whole implicit structure as the meaningful "context").

Maybe this is not the place to dig up this old discussion, but in short, it seems to me that, in the example, what the spaces do is, they make the same personal meaning more or less difficult to arrive at, but I wouldn't say that the meaning lives in them, as if the spaces were a container of meaning. It’s more like the meaning lives in the separation and articulation of the initial visual panorama. In the restricted world of written code, only accessible after formal education, those separations and articulations are normally very obvious, since they are strictly educated, regulated and induced in a purposeful way, to achieve human communication. Maybe other perceptual examples would be easier? If looking at the same spot in nature I read 'leaf' and you read 'toad', this exemplifies how we are uniquely active in the meaning-making activity in connection with our overall intuitive context and the way we organize and read the pixels of our visual panorama, articulating them in concepts. Another example (maybe not for your guy) would be to look at a belladonna plant without clairvoyant sight and see edible blueberries. I would say that these sort of examples, or maybe even better, optical illusions, are easier, since they don't involve the complication of a learned symbolic code. They focus instead on “””natural””” perceptions of the simplest sort and their relation to thinking.

Consider the following sentence in three formulations to experience carefully how your own cognitive activity responds when perceiving them. We should try to move slowly through the progression and pay close attention to how our cognitive discernment of meaning changes between them. Most of the value here will come from the intimate experience of what is unfolding - although it is helpful to put this experience into concepts later, we should first focus on the intuitive experience without any prejudices or assumptions.


(1) "hereliesthewhitemousewhowaseatenbythebrowncat".



(2) "hereli esthewhitemo usewhowaseate nbytheb rowncat".



(3) "herelies thewhitemouse, whowas eatenbythe browncat".



What else have I done in formulations #2 and #3 above apart from creating and enlarging (or modifying with punctuation) empty spaces within the syntax of the letters and words for your conceptual activity to penetrate in a different, more inviting way? Nothing else has been done besides that. (Yes, and precisely because you did nothing else, I am able to arrive at the same meaning - same for me - in all three cases) Note how the empty spaces do not automatically bring meaning to the structure, but only reveal it after our cognitive activity has been invited in to assume its 'shape' and we accept the invitation with meaningful engagement. It is through our cognitive activity that the implicit meaningful context becomes manifest in the perceptions.
Yes, but because, with effort, I can arrive at the same meaning in all three cases, I wonder if this is not making the right discernment less intuitive for those who are not familiar with PoF.
The same principle discerned above will also apply to all other perceptual phenomena in our experience. Consider music when we are listening, singing, or dancing to it and experiencing its underlying rhythm. This rhythm is experienced, usually subconsciously, by the silent spaces ("intervals") between the beats, notes, and chords.

We have to be clear here that the above doesn't mean perceptual experience is irrelevant. If our cognitive activity working from the liminal spaces didn't have the perceptual structures of letters and phrases to meet as resistance, we would only live in some nebulous meaning without any definite resolution. In fact, cognitive activity without any perceptual resistance is unconsciousness. (This is not clear, especially if one has a standard idea of what perception is, that excludes certain thought-images) The lucid meaning in our experience comes from the continual interplay of spiritual activity and perceptual structures. We cannot reduce that meaning to the perceptual structures (as materialists do), nor can we reduce that meaning to the 'pure spiritual activity' (as many mystics/spiritualists do). The perceptual frames of our experience all need to find their proper place for genuine insight to arise, but it's only that they will remain a confusing jumble of perceptual details until we become intimately familiar with the cognitive activity that works in from between the details. Once we set out on that path, we should return to the perceptual details that Nature or Culture presents to us and organize them into harmonious constellations of meaning. This explanation is great!

Another example we could imaginatively work with is when we are playing an instrument. Let's imagine a piano. What makes the difference between a succession of notes coming out as flat and mechanical progression and them sounding with organic freshness, depth, and inspiration? Once our fingers are set into motion - the whole chain of physiological processes through our cells, tissues, nerves, muscle fibers, etc. - it becomes a completely deterministic process. Once that process is set in motion, it can't be retracted by our will. We can imbue this image with moral significance if we imagine throwing a punch to someone else's face - in the liminal space before we throw the punch, we can shape our feelings and intention, but once we set the will in motion, there is no stopping the punch in mid-stream and retracting.


Image


That frame is an image of Bernardo's "blind will" - once the process is set in motion, there is no turning back from the consequences. It is "blind" because we have not yet permeated that aspect of our organism with cognition. Theoretically, if our "I"-ness was awake in our deep physiology, then it could micromanage the process and stop the punch a millimeter from the other person's face, but in our ordinary state, we are deeply asleep to such processes and therefore it quickly gets beyond our control. It is very important to be clear on where/when we actually have creative control in our stream of experience. When we actually have control is only that duration between the physiological processes and the corresponding punches or notes that are struck on the piano, where we can imbue them with noble feelings and intents. The latter will make the difference between a bad rendition of a melody, a good rendition, or a great rendition (while a perfect rendition is still out of reach). It will make the difference between reacting to a violent punch with an even more violent punch or, instead, turning the other cheek.

These examples help!

We can discern that the same principle applies to the 'frames' of our individual and collective streams - the days, months, seasons, and years of our individual existence; the epochs, ages, and aeons of human history. Our individual memories are such frames that are united by an overarching spiritual activity, which we broadly and dimly sense as the quality of our "I"-ness that is present within all memories. We can call those states of being "our memories" because that overarching quality spans them. Yet it is easy to see that the quality of our personal frames, let alone the frames of human history, are not only determined by the spiritual activity of our "I" working within the liminal background. There is also our family and friends, our nation, our historical context, our temperament, our habits, our talents, our biology and physiology. Many of these things we were born with, developed very early in childhood, and/or were influenced heavily by a relatively independent social context. All of these labels emerge from our thinking activity that perceives a nested context through which higher-order spiritual activity structures the frames of its existence. It is only human hubris that rationalizes to itself that these nested contexts lack their own overarching "I"-ness.

"When two or three are gathered in my name, there I am in your midst."

This expansion just above seems more difficult to connect maybe. It requires a stretch for someone who was focused on the 'technicality' of perception, and now is prompted to think about family, society, culture, in a much more encompassing way.

That is, the Divine Logos appears in the liminal space where two or three 'personality frames' gather together with lofty thoughts, compassionate feelings, and noble intentions. It is within that space that ideal potential is born into the manifest world that could not be realized by any one personality thinking and acting alone. We often refer to this newborn quality as "collective intelligence".
I would say, the idea of collective intelligence as generally referred to is mainly bottom-up collaboration, not top-down like in the flock. SoI wonder whether the expression helps. But the example of the flock is great!
It could be spatially analogized to what our thinking perceives in a flock of birds moving in unison across the sky or a swarm of bees. Meaningful qualities of intent, intelligence, and dynamism emerge where we would otherwise perceive something more instinctive, mechanical, and linear.


Image


The above begs the question - is the 'collective intelligence' of animal and human groups something that can be experientially explored by human individuals as well? All esoteric paths across cultures and time periods have answered "yes" and present us with something akin to initiation through the ancient elements - earth, water, air, fire (and perhaps also the ethers - light, sound, life). For our purposes in this context, that practically means a progressive purification and spiritualization of the soul-structure, the life of thoughts, emotions, desires, and impulses. Our normal intellectual and sensory life is analogous to densely packed atoms with very little leeway for the World-creative Spirit to flow and shine through.

Another effective example!


Image


As we progress with our inner work - for ex. through the six 'subsidiary' exercises given by Steiner in his lectures - we are 'warming' and 'loosening' this dense soul-structure so the water, breath, and warmth of the Spirit is met with more leeway to flow through. That is a process of soul purification (catharsis), spiritual illumination, and spiritual union. We can sense our conceptual thinking and sensory perception becoming more fluid and imaginative, more inspired by lucidly outlined ideals, more intuitive, loving, and motivated to attain the harmonious development of all beings. The liminal spaces in which the Spirit can be active through our soul-life on the physical-perceptual plane have expanded. The above is only a crude metaphor for something that can be inwardly engaged and experienced at levels of profound depth. The ways in which we can intimately experience this depth of spiritual activity are completely unsuspected to our modern habits of thinking. So we need to always approach these things with epistemic humility, appreciation of our living experience, and childlike openness to the unfamiliar and unexpected.
You are wrapping it up very clearly. The whole post works very well, and I hope it will make an impression of your correspondant. As said, the comments on vocabulary and on the text example are only subjective remarks that come from my personal experience of trying to get to grips with these things, that are so unfamiliar at first.
In this epoch we have to be fighters for the spirit: man must realise what his powers can give way to, unless they are kept constantly under control for the conquest of the spiritual world. In this fifth epoch, man is entitled to his freedom to the highest degree! He has to go through that.
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Re: Liminal Spaces of Perception (update)

Post by AshvinP »

Thanks for this feedback, Federica. This is really helpful!
Federica wrote: Mon Oct 30, 2023 2:05 pm For instance, let's consider written text.
I remember this one from the essay :) I tend to think now that the example of written text is complex and maybe not the most straightforward, compared with for example an optical illusion, like the classical picture representing either a vase or two profiles facing each other or similar. The reason is that in text there are added layers of decoding that are not entirely distinguishable from the perceptual visual experience (as Max Leyf said, we paint the labels on the same canvas and with the same brush with which we paint the landscape).

I really like the idea of an optical illusion and will incorporate that later in the post.

I think it will help to explain my reasoning a bit further for using the text (or other examples) with literal spaces. For one, I feel it really helps emphasize that the task of the intuitive thinking path is to gradually unveil what is 'not seen', i.e. the spatial and temporal phenomenal spectrum that is normally aliased by our physical sensory organism and sense-based concepts. Our cognitive activity really does react to these spatial and temporal spaces of perception and it reacts in different ways, depending on the sort of spaces we are dealing with.

Generally, I want to establish a progression from spaces where we can clearly intuit the texture of our cognitive activity as it works with the perceptions, to ones where that intuitive sense is dimmer because there is relatively more subconscious (higher-order) cognitive activity at work. As we have discussed, our own thought-forms and cultural forms are the most proximate to our current thinking space where we clearly intuit the dynamics of our activity. Verbal and written speech/text is the most proximate at the level of outer perception.

Once we get to optical illusions or natural perceptions, we have less intuitive resonance and it is more subconscious layers of feeling and will that are structuring the meaning of our perceptions. That certainly gives us a more intense sense of meaning, but that comes at the expense of clearly intuiting how our thinking works with the perceptions.

The perceptions, in this case, are the letters that make up the words, the words that make up the sentences, the sentences that make up the paragraphs, and so forth.
My impression is, saying that "the perceptions are the letters" somehow already goes beyond 'pure perception', since before recognizing the existence of a code, we don't perceive "letters", we rather perceive a unified visual field with color and light variations. Maybe something like: "we perceive contrasting color patterns in string form" or similar, that is, an outer structure within the visual field?
What actually takes place when these perceptions present themselves to our eyes, in the case of reading? We perceive the outer structure of those words, sentences, paragraphs, etc. - which we call their "syntax"
I think the way you use the word "syntax" could be confusing, since this isn't the common way. Syntax in the usual sense is not the outer structure of a written text. No syntax can be perceived when we see a written text and we don't master the idiom, for example. Conversely, if we master the idiom well enough, the syntax will be clear from hearing the text alone. Syntax in the usual sense it has in linguistics can only emerge as part of the meaning. The syntax of a sentence is the way morphemes and words and clauses are related and connected with each other in meaning, through subordination, coordination, direction, time, etcetera. Maybe "visual organization of the patterns" or similar is less subject to misunderstanding?
- and that syntax stimulates our thought to go searching for the inner conceptual meaning which makes sense of that syntactical structure - which we call the "semantics". No words have semantic meaning in isolation, (disputable? They do have it, but we continually remake meaning as we grasp more of the context around the isolated word, I would say )but rather that meaning lives in the empty spaces between the letters, words, and the sentences (we refer to this whole implicit structure as the meaningful "context").

These are good points and I will adjust the language to be more accurate here.

Maybe this is not the place to dig up this old discussion, but in short, it seems to me that, in the example, what the spaces do is, they make the same personal meaning more or less difficult to arrive at, but I wouldn't say that the meaning lives in them, as if the spaces were a container of meaning. It’s more like the meaning lives in the separation and articulation of the initial visual panorama. In the restricted world of written code, only accessible after formal education, those separations and articulations are normally very obvious, since they are strictly educated, regulated and induced in a purposeful way, to achieve human communication. Maybe other perceptual examples would be easier? If looking at the same spot in nature I read 'leaf' and you read 'toad', this exemplifies how we are uniquely active in the meaning-making activity in connection with our overall intuitive context and the way we organize and read the pixels of our visual panorama, articulating them in concepts. Another example (maybe not for your guy) would be to look at a belladonna plant without clairvoyant sight and see edible blueberries. I would say that these sort of examples, or maybe even better, optical illusions, are easier, since they don't involve the complication of a learned symbolic code. They focus instead on “””natural””” perceptions of the simplest sort and their relation to thinking.

I understand your concern, but I hope that the whole context of the post will make it clear that the meaning doesn't "live in the spaces" as some external container. The spaces simply represent the discontinuities of consciousness that lead to perception of 'outer world' and a stream of memory with dark gaps (including thought-distractions, which I may discuss as well). These discontinuities invite our cognitive activity to bridge the gaps with ever-greater constellations of meaning. The most important thing is to experience the way in which our cognitive activity brings meaning into the perceptual landscape. In other words, it's not only about grasping the concepts involved but really engaging in the examples and sensing the more or less laminar flow of intuitive activity.

So in the example of looking at nature and seeing a leaf or a toad, this may exemplify the conceptual principle that people can reach different interpretations of perceptions and we can logically link that to differences in the structure of our cognitive activity, but it doesn't give us an opportunity to intimately experience that structure. We want to start precisely where our cognitive activity has been educated and therefore we are most intuitively familiar with how it structures perception into constellations of meaning. Only from there can we gradually radiate out towards more peripheral spheres of activity in culture and nature. As said, I do think the optical illusion is a great idea and is one we can radiate out towards to exemplify more subconscious influences on our meaning-making.
Consider the following sentence in three formulations to experience carefully how your own cognitive activity responds when perceiving them. We should try to move slowly through the progression and pay close attention to how our cognitive discernment of meaning changes between them. Most of the value here will come from the intimate experience of what is unfolding - although it is helpful to put this experience into concepts later, we should first focus on the intuitive experience without any prejudices or assumptions.

(1) "hereliesthewhitemousewhowaseatenbythebrowncat".



(2) "hereli esthewhitemo usewhowaseate nbytheb rowncat".



(3) "herelies thewhitemouse, whowas eatenbythe browncat".



What else have I done in formulations #2 and #3 above apart from creating and enlarging (or modifying with punctuation) empty spaces within the syntax of the letters and words for your conceptual activity to penetrate in a different, more inviting way? Nothing else has been done besides that. (Yes, and precisely because you did nothing else, I am able to arrive at the same meaning - same for me - in all three cases) Note how the empty spaces do not automatically bring meaning to the structure, but only reveal it after our cognitive activity has been invited in to assume its 'shape' and we accept the invitation with meaningful engagement. It is through our cognitive activity that the implicit meaningful context becomes manifest in the perceptions.
Yes, but because, with effort, I can arrive at the same meaning in all three cases, I wonder if this is not making the right discernment less intuitive for those who are not familiar with PoF.

Arriving at the same meaning is fine and to be expected. The question is whether you intuitively experience any different texture of cognitive effort in response to the differentiated spacing of the sentence? I understand that examples that show how we reach different meanings for the same perceptions help illustrate the principle that our thinking plays a role in the meaningful landscape of perception, but it doesn't necessarily help us experientially delaminate the layers of our own thinking. That is what I am trying to focus on here.

We can discern that the same principle applies to the 'frames' of our individual and collective streams - the days, months, seasons, and years of our individual existence; the epochs, ages, and aeons of human history. Our individual memories are such frames that are united by an overarching spiritual activity, which we broadly and dimly sense as the quality of our "I"-ness that is present within all memories. We can call those states of being "our memories" because that overarching quality spans them. Yet it is easy to see that the quality of our personal frames, let alone the frames of human history, are not only determined by the spiritual activity of our "I" working within the liminal background. There is also our family and friends, our nation, our historical context, our temperament, our habits, our talents, our biology and physiology. Many of these things we were born with, developed very early in childhood, and/or were influenced heavily by a relatively independent social context. All of these labels emerge from our thinking activity that perceives a nested context through which higher-order spiritual activity structures the frames of its existence. It is only human hubris that rationalizes to itself that these nested contexts lack their own overarching "I"-ness.

"When two or three are gathered in my name, there I am in your midst."

This expansion just above seems more difficult to connect maybe. It requires a stretch for someone who was focused on the 'technicality' of perception, and now is prompted to think about family, society, culture, in a much more encompassing way.

I agree and sensed a similar thing when reading it again. I am working on a more smooth transition for this part. Any ideas are welcome!

That is, the Divine Logos appears in the liminal space where two or three 'personality frames' gather together with lofty thoughts, compassionate feelings, and noble intentions. It is within that space that ideal potential is born into the manifest world that could not be realized by any one personality thinking and acting alone. We often refer to this newborn quality as "collective intelligence".
I would say, the idea of collective intelligence as generally referred to is mainly bottom-up collaboration, not top-down like in the flock. SoI wonder whether the expression helps. But the example of the flock is great!

That's a really good point. I think it would be best to approach in a way that challenges our default habit of attributing all group intelligence to a bottom-up patchwork of ideas and behaviors. Again, any ideas on that are welcome.

As we progress with our inner work - for ex. through the six 'subsidiary' exercises given by Steiner in his lectures - we are 'warming' and 'loosening' this dense soul-structure so the water, breath, and warmth of the Spirit is met with more leeway to flow through. That is a process of soul purification (catharsis), spiritual illumination, and spiritual union. We can sense our conceptual thinking and sensory perception becoming more fluid and imaginative, more inspired by lucidly outlined ideals, more intuitive, loving, and motivated to attain the harmonious development of all beings. The liminal spaces in which the Spirit can be active through our soul-life on the physical-perceptual plane have expanded. The above is only a crude metaphor for something that can be inwardly engaged and experienced at levels of profound depth. The ways in which we can intimately experience this depth of spiritual activity are completely unsuspected to our modern habits of thinking. So we need to always approach these things with epistemic humility, appreciation of our living experience, and childlike openness to the unfamiliar and unexpected.
You are wrapping it up very clearly. The whole post works very well, and I hope it will make an impression of your correspondant. As said, the comments on vocabulary and on the text example are only subjective remarks that come from my personal experience of trying to get to grips with these things, that are so unfamiliar at first.

Thanks again for the feedback! Unfortunately, for reasons that we don't need to get into, the correspondent seems beyond the point of any such post helping, no matter how clear it becomes. But I think it will be very useful as a reference in future discussions, not to mention as an exercise for us in creatively shaping it and clarifying our intuitive orientation.
"Most people would sooner regard themselves as a piece of lava in the moon than as an 'I'"
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Re: Liminal Spaces of Perception (update)

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AshvinP wrote: Mon Oct 30, 2023 3:53 pm Thanks for this feedback, Federica. This is really helpful!
Federica wrote: Mon Oct 30, 2023 2:05 pm For instance, let's consider written text.
I remember this one from the essay :) I tend to think now that the example of written text is complex and maybe not the most straightforward, compared with for example an optical illusion, like the classical picture representing either a vase or two profiles facing each other or similar. The reason is that in text there are added layers of decoding that are not entirely distinguishable from the perceptual visual experience (as Max Leyf said, we paint the labels on the same canvas and with the same brush with which we paint the landscape).

I really like the idea of an optical illusion and will incorporate that later in the post.
I'm glad there's something to make use of in it! I haven't read your whole reply yet, will do later. Note: the optical illusion is Cleric's idea:
Cleric K wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 7:30 pm Intuition is simply the label we put to the purely experiential aspect of our conscious life. It is the ever present meaningful context of our existence. Optical illusions are a good example where we have certain visual perceptions and corresponding intuition, which however turn out to be something else when we expand our field of investigation.
In this epoch we have to be fighters for the spirit: man must realise what his powers can give way to, unless they are kept constantly under control for the conquest of the spiritual world. In this fifth epoch, man is entitled to his freedom to the highest degree! He has to go through that.
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Re: Liminal Spaces of Perception (update)

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Federica wrote: Mon Oct 30, 2023 6:22 pm
AshvinP wrote: Mon Oct 30, 2023 3:53 pm Thanks for this feedback, Federica. This is really helpful!
Federica wrote: Mon Oct 30, 2023 2:05 pm For instance, let's consider written text.
I remember this one from the essay :) I tend to think now that the example of written text is complex and maybe not the most straightforward, compared with for example an optical illusion, like the classical picture representing either a vase or two profiles facing each other or similar. The reason is that in text there are added layers of decoding that are not entirely distinguishable from the perceptual visual experience (as Max Leyf said, we paint the labels on the same canvas and with the same brush with which we paint the landscape).

I really like the idea of an optical illusion and will incorporate that later in the post.
I'm glad there's something to make use of in it! I haven't read your whole reply yet, will do later. Note: the optical illusion is Cleric's idea:
Cleric K wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 7:30 pm Intuition is simply the label we put to the purely experiential aspect of our conscious life. It is the ever present meaningful context of our existence. Optical illusions are a good example where we have certain visual perceptions and corresponding intuition, which however turn out to be something else when we expand our field of investigation.

Yes, but using it in this context is your idea :)

I also used one in Part 3 of my original essay and I have always found them helpful tools to notice our cognitive-perceptual dynamics.
"Most people would sooner regard themselves as a piece of lava in the moon than as an 'I'"
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Re: Liminal Spaces of Perception (update)

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AshvinP wrote: Mon Oct 30, 2023 3:53 pm
We can discern that the same principle applies to the 'frames' of our individual and collective streams - the days, months, seasons, and years of our individual existence; the epochs, ages, and aeons of human history. Our individual memories are such frames that are united by an overarching spiritual activity, which we broadly and dimly sense as the quality of our "I"-ness that is present within all memories. We can call those states of being "our memories" because that overarching quality spans them. Yet it is easy to see that the quality of our personal frames, let alone the frames of human history, are not only determined by the spiritual activity of our "I" working within the liminal background. There is also our family and friends, our nation, our historical context, our temperament, our habits, our talents, our biology and physiology. Many of these things we were born with, developed very early in childhood, and/or were influenced heavily by a relatively independent social context. All of these labels emerge from our thinking activity that perceives a nested context through which higher-order spiritual activity structures the frames of its existence. It is only human hubris that rationalizes to itself that these nested contexts lack their own overarching "I"-ness.

"When two or three are gathered in my name, there I am in your midst."

This expansion just above seems more difficult to connect maybe. It requires a stretch for someone who was focused on the 'technicality' of perception, and now is prompted to think about family, society, culture, in a much more encompassing way.

I agree and sensed a similar thing when reading it again. I am working on a more smooth transition for this part. Any ideas are welcome!

The way I would probably do it is to keep the reference to memory - suggesting that the sum total of a life of diverse perceptions is held together by the overarching sense of I-ness - then I would limit the expansion to only one thing, one example. Maybe I’d say first that, with introspection and meditation, one comes to discover that a similar invisible superordinate principle actually exists “at large”, beyond the sphere of consciousness of the individual. There are subsets of 'mind", chunks of “mind” of various size, quality and shape, held together through intelligent principles. In other words, universal mind is not a homogenous blind soup, but various levels of differentiation-aggregation (of will) can be known, not as a theory, but as an explorative discovery in meditation. Beyond our own, there are other I-ness-es who operate at various levels of aggregation. They interact with each other and with our own I-ness, forming and maintaining a sort of fluid morphology that is accessible to mapping. And I would maybe suggest one example, not sure which one (but not nation, it's too distracting).
In this way, by staying away from words such as "being" "hierarchy" "angels" etc., and by sticking to some BK vocabulary, one can propose a sort of focused statement, rather than a broad overview of the truth of reality (too ambitous). I would hope that there is a chance for the intellectual mind to be captivated - by the idea of "experieceable, differentiated landscape of MAL", so to say. And I would skip the biblical quote at this level, since it may trigger unnoticed but interfering reactions.

Maybe to add something about the porosity of the boundary? That its porosity is underestimated by BK. Porosity is actually not a constant, but we have control over it through the development of our mode of consciousness beyond the brain, and not through chemical action on the brain. When we go beyond ourselves, so to say, bypassing the individual brain (let's remember that brain is an idea according to BK too) we can permeate the boundary (veil) through the morphology of thinking/spiritual activity. We can do it by following the perceptual cracks it shows us. In this way, we start sharing mind-matter with those chunks of mind who are conscious in the "at large" realm. That realm is actually not so blind, rather we tend to be, as long as we stay in our habitual blind spot, blind mode of consciousness, that doesn't inquire enough consciousness and its modes.
AshvinP wrote: Mon Oct 30, 2023 3:53 pm
That is, the Divine Logos appears in the liminal space where two or three 'personality frames' gather together with lofty thoughts, compassionate feelings, and noble intentions. It is within that space that ideal potential is born into the manifest world that could not be realized by any one personality thinking and acting alone. We often refer to this newborn quality as "collective intelligence".
I would say, the idea of collective intelligence as generally referred to is mainly bottom-up collaboration, not top-down like in the flock. SoI wonder whether the expression helps. But the example of the flock is great!

That's a really good point. I think it would be best to approach in a way that challenges our default habit of attributing all group intelligence to a bottom-up patchwork of ideas and behaviors. Again, any ideas on that are welcome.

Maybe something that has to do with group sports? When there’s that magic coordination that flows ‘by itself’, until someone thinks too much, or worries too much. Alternatively, something that has to do with “servant leadership”? There's plenty of discussion about it in present-day global leadership discourse, which in principle is good, since true top-down order does not equal thunderous, overpowering authority, but guidance in the spirit of being of service, like Christ epitomized, and others. But it’s hard to come up with a specific example…
In this epoch we have to be fighters for the spirit: man must realise what his powers can give way to, unless they are kept constantly under control for the conquest of the spiritual world. In this fifth epoch, man is entitled to his freedom to the highest degree! He has to go through that.
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Re: Liminal Spaces of Perception (update)

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Federica wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2023 8:37 pm The way I would probably do it is to keep the reference to memory - suggesting that the sum total of a life of diverse perceptions is held together by the overarching sense of I-ness - then I would limit the expansion to only one thing, one example. Maybe I’d say first that, with introspection and meditation, one comes to discover that a similar invisible superordinate principle actually exists “at large”, beyond the sphere of consciousness of the individual. There are subsets of 'mind", chunks of “mind” of various size, quality and shape, held together through intelligent principles. In other words, universal mind is not a homogenous blind soup, but various levels of differentiation-aggregation (of will) can be known, not as a theory, but as an explorative discovery in meditation. Beyond our own, there are other I-ness-es who operate at various levels of aggregation. They interact with each other and with our own I-ness, forming and maintaining a sort of fluid morphology that is accessible to mapping. And I would maybe suggest one example, not sure which one (but not nation, it's too distracting).
In this way, by staying away from words such as "being" "hierarchy" "angels" etc., and by sticking to some BK vocabulary, one can propose a sort of focused statement, rather than a broad overview of the truth of reality (too ambitous). I would hope that there is a chance for the intellectual mind to be captivated - by the idea of "experieceable, differentiated landscape of MAL", so to say. And I would skip the biblical quote at this level, since it may trigger unnoticed but interfering reactions.

Maybe to add something about the porosity of the boundary? That its porosity is underestimated by BK. Porosity is actually not a constant, but we have control over it through the development of our mode of consciousness beyond the brain, and not through chemical action on the brain. When we go beyond ourselves, so to say, bypassing the individual brain (let's remember that brain is an idea according to BK too) we can permeate the boundary (veil) through the morphology of thinking/spiritual activity. We can do it by following the perceptual cracks it shows us. In this way, we start sharing mind-matter with those chunks of mind who are conscious in the "at large" realm. That realm is actually not so blind, rather we tend to be, as long as we stay in our habitual blind spot, blind mode of consciousness, that doesn't inquire enough consciousness and its modes.

Another metaphor that comes to mind for those who mention psychedelics:

Psychedelics are only one (bad) way to induce a different state of consciousness. Psychedelics are like steroids for the mind. One can surely grow impressive muscle fiber with steroids, but every reasonable person will admit that committed exercise that involves the will, and not only passive use of chemicals is much better, holistic, sustainable, safe and real. The same goes for consciousness, thinking exercises are much better, more long term effective, and safer than drugs. I think this is a convincing metaphor. One has to establish a healthy training routine for consciousness, and work towards going beyond one's personal brain. We can use the research BK mentions, that measured brain activity is very minimal during the psychedelic experience, to suggest that development of consciousness, with psychedelics or with real exercise, has to do with expanding beyond one's physical brain and its perceptible-measurable metabolic activity.

Also, using the word "consciousness" in place of spiritual activity/thinking should help connect the dots for the BK followers. Or explicitly saying that spiritual activity is used to mean consciousness.
In this epoch we have to be fighters for the spirit: man must realise what his powers can give way to, unless they are kept constantly under control for the conquest of the spiritual world. In this fifth epoch, man is entitled to his freedom to the highest degree! He has to go through that.
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Re: Liminal Spaces of Perception (update)

Post by AshvinP »

Federica wrote: Wed Nov 01, 2023 8:53 am
Federica wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2023 8:37 pm The way I would probably do it is to keep the reference to memory - suggesting that the sum total of a life of diverse perceptions is held together by the overarching sense of I-ness - then I would limit the expansion to only one thing, one example. Maybe I’d say first that, with introspection and meditation, one comes to discover that a similar invisible superordinate principle actually exists “at large”, beyond the sphere of consciousness of the individual. There are subsets of 'mind", chunks of “mind” of various size, quality and shape, held together through intelligent principles. In other words, universal mind is not a homogenous blind soup, but various levels of differentiation-aggregation (of will) can be known, not as a theory, but as an explorative discovery in meditation. Beyond our own, there are other I-ness-es who operate at various levels of aggregation. They interact with each other and with our own I-ness, forming and maintaining a sort of fluid morphology that is accessible to mapping. And I would maybe suggest one example, not sure which one (but not nation, it's too distracting).
In this way, by staying away from words such as "being" "hierarchy" "angels" etc., and by sticking to some BK vocabulary, one can propose a sort of focused statement, rather than a broad overview of the truth of reality (too ambitous). I would hope that there is a chance for the intellectual mind to be captivated - by the idea of "experieceable, differentiated landscape of MAL", so to say. And I would skip the biblical quote at this level, since it may trigger unnoticed but interfering reactions.

Maybe to add something about the porosity of the boundary? That its porosity is underestimated by BK. Porosity is actually not a constant, but we have control over it through the development of our mode of consciousness beyond the brain, and not through chemical action on the brain. When we go beyond ourselves, so to say, bypassing the individual brain (let's remember that brain is an idea according to BK too) we can permeate the boundary (veil) through the morphology of thinking/spiritual activity. We can do it by following the perceptual cracks it shows us. In this way, we start sharing mind-matter with those chunks of mind who are conscious in the "at large" realm. That realm is actually not so blind, rather we tend to be, as long as we stay in our habitual blind spot, blind mode of consciousness, that doesn't inquire enough consciousness and its modes.

Another metaphor that comes to mind for those who mention psychedelics:

Psychedelics are only one (bad) way to induce a different state of consciousness. Psychedelics are like steroids for the mind. One can surely grow impressive muscle fiber with steroids, but every reasonable person will admit that committed exercise that involves the will, and not only passive use of chemicals is much better, holistic, sustainable, safe and real. The same goes for consciousness, thinking exercises are much better, more long term effective, and safer than drugs. I think this is a convincing metaphor. One has to establish a healthy training routine for consciousness, and work towards going beyond one's personal brain. We can use the research BK mentions, that measured brain activity is very minimal during the psychedelic experience, to suggest that development of consciousness, with psychedelics or with real exercise, has to do with expanding beyond one's physical brain and its perceptible-measurable metabolic activity.

Also, using the word "consciousness" in place of spiritual activity/thinking should help connect the dots for the BK followers. Or explicitly saying that spiritual activity is used to mean consciousness.

Thanks for these further indications and suggestions, Federica. I think they will spark some new avenues of thought for me to follow in refining the post. I should have a revised version to share soon.

For now, I am trying to keep it somewhat open-ended, not necessarily limited to addressing a person who is aligned with BK and analytic idealism. I am hoping even a materialist can go through it and gain insight into their spiritual activity. I don't want to reinforce the tendency to conceptualize it all as an abstract framework of 'consciousness', whether that is conceived of as having material or mystical causes. So I think it needs to be clear that we are dealing with the experience of first-person thinking activity and I may include a 'phenomenology disclaimer' of the sort that Cleric provided in his latest essay, suggesting to resist the habit of metaphysical speculation into 'what's really going on'.

It's not strictly a phenomenology since, once it gets into the liminal spaces of higher-order thinking, it must rely on conceptual descriptions, loose metaphors, and innuendo. What Cleric often illustrates, the narrowing down of the potential of the intuitive context into concrete thinking-perceptual states, would help here since that is essentially what is happening within the liminal spaces, or put another way, why we experience the liminal spaces. I am still trying to find fresh examples that could make that principle more experientially conscious. I am thinking about maybe using a chess game, crossword puzzle, or something similar as an example of narrowing down the intuitive potential with our thinking acts. Then, within the constrained thinking states, we need to get more creative in working with the liminal spaces to mine new meaningful states.

The metaphor of mind-altering substances to steroids and the idea that our consciousness should instead be exercised is a good one and I will try to work that into the intro as well.
"Most people would sooner regard themselves as a piece of lava in the moon than as an 'I'"
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