Esoteric knowledge for skeptics

Any topics primarily focused on metaphysics can be discussed here, in a generally casual way, where conversations may take unexpected turns.
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Federica
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Re: Esoteric knowledge for skeptics

Post by Federica »

Güney27 wrote: Thu Nov 16, 2023 10:36 pm
Federica wrote: Thu Nov 16, 2023 10:20 pm
Güney27 wrote: Thu Nov 16, 2023 9:12 pm Federica,
I don't understand the point of the quote.
Could you explain it to me?
Sorry for not commenting - To comment on your question about reading SS, I was trying to signify with the quote that a spiritual scientific way to read texts and understand concepts is one that extends beyond the process of finding an ordered alignment of those concepts (like young people are taught to do in Universities, Steiner says).
It is necessary to expand the concepts with artistic impulse. Not that the concepts are there and we just pick them up, collect them and reorder their fixed shapes. Rather, we create them anew every time we 'enter' them by lending them our living 'thinking fiber' so that it can livingly interact with the rest of the living thinking forces and landscape - as Goethe did, when he was able to grasp the nature of plant, for example. So unless we attempt an expansion in a similar direction when we read those texts, when we read spiritual science in general, we will remain rudely stuck with our conceptual ruler and compass, rudely refusing to let those beings join us - the benevolent beings who are trying to join us from the Cosmos, to inspire us with the understanding of plant nature. We need to grasp plant nature (life) to be able to lift ourselves above our abstract thoughts before it's too late. As humanity, by nurturing them with so much momentum, we are preparing their unfortunate materialization in the form of a world-wide, spider-like prison-network, able to absorb us entirely in its tentacular fabric.
Federica,

honestly I can't comprehend what you said.
I understand that we shouldn't treat Ss concepts like ordinary information, but the other statements aren't intelligible for me.

Ok, maybe it's because I referred to the quoted lecture too much.
In short, I was just repeating what's been previously said in many ways by Ashvin and Cleric. I wanted to add the perspective and the words of the quoted lecture to illustrate that same point - the necessity to quit the abstract perspective in general, and in particular when reading spiritual science.

One way to say it is that we should try to read Steiner and everything else we read, as artists.
What does that mean? To read with an artistic openness to the novelty of the experience, ready to accept the inflow of unexpected ideas, and resisting the urge to pin down everything, concept after concept, in orderly and univocal manner.
In this epoch we have to be fighters for the spirit: man must realise what his powers can give way to, unless they are kept constantly under control for the conquest of the spiritual world. In this fifth epoch, man is entitled to his freedom to the highest degree! He has to go through that.
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AshvinP
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Re: Esoteric knowledge for skeptics

Post by AshvinP »

Güney27 wrote: Thu Nov 16, 2023 4:52 pm Thanks to everybody who has made efforts to make this things understandable. I think it would be better to change the direction of this thread to make it more fruitful.
How should one read Spiritual scientific texts?
How can one cultivate the skill of meditative reading so to say?

As far as I'm understand, we can't think of spiritual scientific concepts like we think about information (knowledge in form of finished content of Consciousness).
One point of study is to reorient our intellectual
world conception.

Steiner speaks in a couple of lectures, that the study of Ss is the first step on the path of initiation.

Related to what Federica mentions, it could help to approach spiritual science as conveying plotlines, scenes, and characters of a theatrical drama. Essentially, that is what we are dealing with - the dramatic sequence of spiritual beings, waves of life (mineral, plant, animal, human, etc.) who pilgrimage from the spirit worlds through the manifest existence of planetary incarnations (saturn, sun, moon, earth), planes (mainly astral and physical), bodies (lower ego, astral, etheric, physical), ethers, elements, etc. to develop new modes of consciousness, new capacities and virtues, and eventually spiritualize manifest existence through rhythmic ascents back to the spiritual and descents back to the astral (soul) and physical. Along this pilgrimage, the life waves have specific tasks to complete towards the completion of the Divine Plan of perfecting creation, such as those that are expressed through the rhythms of the cultural epochs. Ancient Indian, Persian, Egyptian-Chaldean, etc. all had specific inner qualities and capacities to develop that could serve future evolution. The torch is passed on from epoch to epoch, from soul community to soul community, so that the Flame always remains lit in some form or another, i.e. the dialogue with the spirit worlds and the higher hierarchies always remains open. Whereas in previous epochs the dialogue shrunk to a few initiates in mystery communities receiving inspiration from above, it is now expanding again to encompass more and more thinking individuals who receive inspiration from within


Image

The Chartres labyrinth was probably built 1215-1235. This was when pilgrimage to the Holy City of Jerusalem was made difficult and dangerous by the Crusades. The Church designated seven European cathedrals, mainly in France, to become “Jerusalem” for pilgrims. The labyrinth became the final stage of pilgrimage, serving as a symbolic entry into the Celestial City of Jerusalem.

All seven cathedrals used the 11-circuit labyrinth design but there were some adaptations, such as at Amiens, where the labyrinth was octagonal. These labyrinths were sometimes called ‘new Jerusalem’ or ‘road to Jerusalem’. Some pilgrims completed the labyrinth on their knees as an act of penitence and to gain forgiveness.

The 11-circuit labyrinth has an asymmetrical, mathematically and visually complex pattern in which every quadrant is different. The path twists and turns so that you move towards the centre and out again – as if towards and away from God.

We can understand the broad outlines of many spiritual scientific concepts and also make them intimate to our own stream of development if we keep this overarching pilgrimage in our intuitive context. Our lives are nested rhythms of expansion into the spirit worlds and contraction into the sensory spectrum (or we could say expansion into the sensory spectrum and contraction back to the Spirit, depending on our perspective). The expansion/contraction should be understood in a temporal (not spatial) sense - we essentially expand into all previous and future stages of evolution (from the highest perspective, past and future are unified). These are modes of consciousness that we cycle through to gradually perfect ourselves inwardly and spiritualize the manifest world. The thinking hysteresis (remember TCoTCT) is the most intimate rhythm at our current stage of development, and when we spiral the hysteresis together it becomes the seed point from which the spiritual worlds will once again grow and blossom into manifest existence. 

I shared an interview earlier about how Anthroposophy influenced Star Wars. I'm not sure if you had a chance to watch it, but it's a good example of how the concepts can be artistically related to grand theatric narratives that speak intimately to where we came from, how we got here, what our inner tasks are, and how we can bring them to fulfillment. Just like in the movie, there are real stakes involved and we should keep that in our context when contemplating spiritual science. Everything is pointing to thoughts, feelings, and actions we can embody to consciously participate in the evolutionary drama. It is not something we passively absorb to accumulate information about 'spiritual reality', but something we actively engage with to develop the 'life force' and become 'jedis' working on the side of Light - of Truth, Faith, Hope, and Love. 
"Most people would sooner regard themselves as a piece of lava in the moon than as an 'I'"
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Güney27
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Re: Esoteric knowledge for skeptics

Post by Güney27 »

I realized today that I wanted to understand what intuition, meaning, thinking ...... In form of intellectual, thought-perceptions.
I tried to construct a framework to get a grip on these themes.

Trying to understand thinking, by using thinking (arranging thought perceptions) treats thinking like some objects in nature wich we study.
It's pointless.

I now can see what Ashvin meant in the discussions.

The right way is to try to relate this themes to one's own experience.

I don't know what the deeper nature of this tendency is, but I think it is a reason for the inaccessibility of these things on this forum.

It has nothing to do with the thread but I wanted to share this insights.
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Re: Esoteric knowledge for skeptics

Post by coexistence »

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AshvinP
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Re: Esoteric knowledge for skeptics

Post by AshvinP »

Güney27 wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2023 9:11 pm I realized today that I wanted to understand what intuition, meaning, thinking ...... In form of intellectual, thought-perceptions.
I tried to construct a framework to get a grip on these themes.

Trying to understand thinking, by using thinking (arranging thought perceptions) treats thinking like some objects in nature wich we study.
It's pointless.

I now can see what Ashvin meant in the discussions.

The right way is to try to relate this themes to one's own experience.

I don't know what the deeper nature of this tendency is, but I think it is a reason for the inaccessibility of these things on this forum.

It has nothing to do with the thread but I wanted to share this insights.

Guney,

Thanks for sharing your insight. Yes, that seems to be a consistent source of misunderstanding on the forum. In a sense, it stems from our refusal to confront the fact that we are really in a tragic situation of addiction to one-sided 'left-brain' thinking, the constant rearranging of thought-perceptions into models that are supposed to match the dynamics of reality (physical and spiritual). We first need to honestly confront how diseased our thinking is in that respect. Then we need to take some courageous and radical interventions to heal the addiction. To put it in a crude metaphor, most of the tactics we use are like giving a lifelong smoker a box of nicotine patches. Or trying to rehabilitate someone who hasn't used his legs for 10 years by giving him light leg massages. These things may be helpful supplements but they won't address the root causes of the sickness.

What we need is radical mental exercises (although not at all 'complex' ones), including soul purification exercises (like the 6 subsidiary exercises), that strain and challenge all of our habitual ways of thinking and feeling. Through such exercises we are aiming to intimately experience the connection between our willed activity and the resulting thought-perceptions - this is the only place in our experience where our perceptions are immediately explained by, or transparent to, ideational activity. In all other cases, like the rocks, plants, animals, and other humans in our environment, we can infer that there is ideational activity animating their existence and movements, but we don't experience that activity inwardly. It is through intimate exercises that the holistic 'right brain' functions can become more conscious - normally we only awaken to the finished products of our thinking activity that are expressed as fragmented perceptions (concepts and sense impressions) to analyze by the left brain, but through the portal of concentration exercises, we can awaken 'deeper' in the flow of our thinking activity that structures our perceptual life.

With the liberation of our spiritual activity from the rigid contours of the brain and senses, conditioned by our lower desires and feelings, we can begin to perceive clearly how spiritual themes manifest in the rhythms of our living experiential stream. We gradually awaken to the gravity wells of desire and feeling that attract our thinking-perceptual stream. I mentioned our nested rhythms of expansion/contraction before. We could represent the overarching dynamic as follows. At the outer conceptual-perceptual level, the 'seed point' of Cosmic potential has expanded into the complex physical sphere of perceptual dynamics.


Image


We have awakened into this sphere of complex relations between the natural kingdoms, cultural institutions, and planetary/stellar dynamics. These all delaminated from the unified Cosmic potential. We designate all of that as the planetary incarnations (Saturn, Sun, Moon, Earth), the evolution of the Archai and Humans (at a mineral stage), the Archangels and Animals, the Angels and Plants, the Earthly Humans and Minerals. The evolution of Warmth, of Light and Air, of Tone and Water, of Life and Earth. Physical body, Etheric Body, Astral Body, Ego. Intuition, Inspiration, Imagination, Intellect. We could go on and on with these correspondences between spiritual scientific concepts. The main point is that all of this delaminated from the Cosmic potential, emerging as hollowed-out holistic Intuition, providing support for beings in developing new modes of consciousness and corresponding virtues. It all resulted in our current stage where we reached the true grounds of inner freedom via spiritual activity. The price of this freedom has been our complete experiential isolation from the Cosmic spheres from which we descended.

At the same time, however, the sphere of inner forces has contracted into the 'seed point' of our seemingly atomic head-space, where we experience thought-perceptions lacking all sense of reality (compared to the outer world of sense impressions). We should imagine the outer spectrum expanding as the inner spectrum simultaneously contracts. The outer delamination is a reflection of the inner lamination. The Kingdom of God is truly within us, despite how much this challenges our normal spatial intuition. We only need to remember the physical body is itself a spatial representation of the totality of Cosmic forces and our spiritual activity is therefore not confined to the 'space' of the representation (although we can relate all the Cosmic forces to aspects of our physical organism). The task now is to gradually delaminate the inner forces from within so that our outer conceptual-perceptual experience is simultaneously spiritualized, which practically means we once again experience the rhythms of our collective and individual existence in harmony with the High Intents of the Cosmic organism.
"Most people would sooner regard themselves as a piece of lava in the moon than as an 'I'"
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Re: Esoteric knowledge for skeptics

Post by Cleric K »

Güney27 wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2023 9:11 pm I realized today that I wanted to understand what intuition, meaning, thinking ...... In form of intellectual, thought-perceptions.
I tried to construct a framework to get a grip on these themes.

Trying to understand thinking, by using thinking (arranging thought perceptions) treats thinking like some objects in nature wich we study.
It's pointless.

I now can see what Ashvin meant in the discussions.

The right way is to try to relate this themes to one's own experience.
I'm happy for your realization, Guney! Yes, that's why the example was given - that we try to construct the tree from its fruits - the apples. In fact, the tree - even if it is not made of apples - can never be found as some thing side by side with the apples. We know the tree only if we become one with its life. Gradually we learn to understand ourselves not through what we theorize about ourselves but by learning to experience our spirit's movements as the life of the tree. Thoughts that we speak and visualize are only the testimonies of that life. And if you have read the other post, we can get some feeling for this life when we strain to multiply two numbers, for example. No arrangement of numbers can be said to be equivalent to (or to explain) the lived reality of our efforts through which we have reached the arrangement.
Güney27 wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2023 9:11 pm I don't know what the deeper nature of this tendency is, but I think it is a reason for the inaccessibility of these things on this forum.

It has nothing to do with the thread but I wanted to share this insights.
You are quite right. Alas, this understanding can't be forced on another person, no matter how many explanations are given. Becoming conscious as a creative force within thinking immediately draws after itself many inconvenient consequences. Even though, even on this forum, almost everyone says that materialism is baloney, many actually are in love with the conclusion of materialism that thinking is just the output of unconscious processes, thus there's no need (it is even foolish) to feel causally involved in the stream of thought.
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Güney27
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Re: Esoteric knowledge for skeptics

Post by Güney27 »

AshvinP wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2023 6:30 pm
Güney27 wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2023 9:11 pm I realized today that I wanted to understand what intuition, meaning, thinking ...... In form of intellectual, thought-perceptions.
I tried to construct a framework to get a grip on these themes.

Trying to understand thinking, by using thinking (arranging thought perceptions) treats thinking like some objects in nature wich we study.
It's pointless.

I now can see what Ashvin meant in the discussions.

The right way is to try to relate this themes to one's own experience.

I don't know what the deeper nature of this tendency is, but I think it is a reason for the inaccessibility of these things on this forum.

It has nothing to do with the thread but I wanted to share this insights.

Guney,

Thanks for sharing your insight. Yes, that seems to be a consistent source of misunderstanding on the forum. In a sense, it stems from our refusal to confront the fact that we are really in a tragic situation of addiction to one-sided 'left-brain' thinking, the constant rearranging of thought-perceptions into models that are supposed to match the dynamics of reality (physical and spiritual). We first need to honestly confront how diseased our thinking is in that respect. Then we need to take some courageous and radical interventions to heal the addiction. To put it in a crude metaphor, most of the tactics we use are like giving a lifelong smoker a box of nicotine patches. Or trying to rehabilitate someone who hasn't used his legs for 10 years by giving him light leg massages. These things may be helpful supplements but they won't address the root causes of the sickness.

What we need is radical mental exercises (although not at all 'complex' ones), including soul purification exercises (like the 6 subsidiary exercises), that strain and challenge all of our habitual ways of thinking and feeling. Through such exercises we are aiming to intimately experience the connection between our willed activity and the resulting thought-perceptions - this is the only place in our experience where our perceptions are immediately explained by, or transparent to, ideational activity. In all other cases, like the rocks, plants, animals, and other humans in our environment, we can infer that there is ideational activity animating their existence and movements, but we don't experience that activity inwardly. It is through intimate exercises that the holistic 'right brain' functions can become more conscious - normally we only awaken to the finished products of our thinking activity that are expressed as fragmented perceptions (concepts and sense impressions) to analyze by the left brain, but through the portal of concentration exercises, we can awaken 'deeper' in the flow of our thinking activity that structures our perceptual life.

With the liberation of our spiritual activity from the rigid contours of the brain and senses, conditioned by our lower desires and feelings, we can begin to perceive clearly how spiritual themes manifest in the rhythms of our living experiential stream. We gradually awaken to the gravity wells of desire and feeling that attract our thinking-perceptual stream. I mentioned our nested rhythms of expansion/contraction before. We could represent the overarching dynamic as follows. At the outer conceptual-perceptual level, the 'seed point' of Cosmic potential has expanded into the complex physical sphere of perceptual dynamics.


Image


We have awakened into this sphere of complex relations between the natural kingdoms, cultural institutions, and planetary/stellar dynamics. These all delaminated from the unified Cosmic potential. We designate all of that as the planetary incarnations (Saturn, Sun, Moon, Earth), the evolution of the Archai and Humans (at a mineral stage), the Archangels and Animals, the Angels and Plants, the Earthly Humans and Minerals. The evolution of Warmth, of Light and Air, of Tone and Water, of Life and Earth. Physical body, Etheric Body, Astral Body, Ego. Intuition, Inspiration, Imagination, Intellect. We could go on and on with these correspondences between spiritual scientific concepts. The main point is that all of this delaminated from the Cosmic potential, emerging as hollowed-out holistic Intuition, providing support for beings in developing new modes of consciousness and corresponding virtues. It all resulted in our current stage where we reached the true grounds of inner freedom via spiritual activity. The price of this freedom has been our complete experiential isolation from the Cosmic spheres from which we descended.

At the same time, however, the sphere of inner forces has contracted into the 'seed point' of our seemingly atomic head-space, where we experience thought-perceptions lacking all sense of reality (compared to the outer world of sense impressions). We should imagine the outer spectrum expanding as the inner spectrum simultaneously contracts. The outer delamination is a reflection of the inner lamination. The Kingdom of God is truly within us, despite how much this challenges our normal spatial intuition. We only need to remember the physical body is itself a spatial representation of the totality of Cosmic forces and our spiritual activity is therefore not confined to the 'space' of the representation (although we can relate all the Cosmic forces to aspects of our physical organism). The task now is to gradually delaminate the inner forces from within so that our outer conceptual-perceptual experience is simultaneously spiritualized, which practically means we once again experience the rhythms of our collective and individual existence in harmony with the High Intents of the Cosmic organism.
Ashvin,

Thanks for this insightful post.
There are a lot of things wich I want to discuss further,
but I think it would be the best if you can explain what you mean with the left and right brain dichotomy?
I know it is from Ian McGilchrist's book, but I don't know much about him and his theories.
It seems quite materialistic though.
But I don't know enough to make a statement about him.
~Only true love can heal broken hearts~
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Federica
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Re: Esoteric knowledge for skeptics

Post by Federica »

As I go through Steiner's "Esoteric Lessons", I would like to report an expression that has not been used here, as far as I remember. I want to report it since I believe it gives a simple and ready guideline toward what's really needed: "control of thoughts".

As repressive as it may sound, we need to control our thoughts. Sounds rough, but it's true. For me this idea has the merit to remind me at once of the two things that need happen. For one, developing thinking capacity, sure, but also soul improvement. They both happen via thinking, so I am reminded that, beyond concentration, imagination and all those noble, uplifting efforts towards "higher cognition", I need to work on my character just as much, or maybe more. For example in my case, on controlling judging attitudes and wrong thoughts that easily judge situations and behaviors.

And every time I catch myself scrolling through thoughts of that kind - with or without actual screen scrolling - I have to do my best to make those wrong thoughts right. I have to counteract the judging thought, the metabolic thought, or whatever other uncontrolled thought it was. I try to remember that every time I let my thoughts get sucked into those familiar cracks without opposing any resistance - I'm being manipulated by adversarial forces and their emissaries. And I try to also remember that this happens not just to my own detriment, but to the detriment of humanity as a whole. It's inevitable that it happens, Steiner says, but I think that having the idea "I have to keep thoughts under control" close, during the day, is a good way to maintain an active posture that helps with a sharper, keener vigilance on the constant risk of thought scrolling.

I think our everyday physical screen scrolling habit, so visible in literally all sorts of everyday situations, is the tip of the iceberg of a thinking habit of spiritless scrolling through thoughts. This has become so overpowering that it has now descended into physical manifestation as screen scrolling - the symbol of our threatening, uncontrolled thought habits.
In this epoch we have to be fighters for the spirit: man must realise what his powers can give way to, unless they are kept constantly under control for the conquest of the spiritual world. In this fifth epoch, man is entitled to his freedom to the highest degree! He has to go through that.
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AshvinP
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Re: Esoteric knowledge for skeptics

Post by AshvinP »

Güney27 wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2023 11:39 pm Ashvin,

Thanks for this insightful post.
There are a lot of things wich I want to discuss further,
but I think it would be the best if you can explain what you mean with the left and right brain dichotomy?
I know it is from Ian McGilchrist's book, but I don't know much about him and his theories.
It seems quite materialistic though.
But I don't know enough to make a statement about him.

Guney,

There has been a lot of research into the differentiated disposition/functions of the LB and RB in recent years, and it does seem IM has been at the forefront of that. He approaches it from a very philosophical and spiritual angle, which means he actually uses the RB more to understand the differentiated ways that our cognition approaches the World Content. If we were to put it in esoteric terms, the LB is basically associated with the Ahrimanic intellect that wants to 'spectrum analyze' all holistic ideas at the level of their most fragmented concepts and perceptions. It is highly adapted to pursuing Earthly purposes and functions related to our lower impulses, feelings, and thoughts (that is obviously necessary and is the basis for all modern science/tech). Interestingly enough, the LB is associated with the right hand and Ahriman is considered the right-hand path of evil. The RB can be associated more with the Luciferic impulse to expand out from Earthly details and encompass everything as a whole. It is associated more with imagination and intuition. The key thing is to find the Middle Path that spirals these two together, so that the LB and obey the inflowing wisdom from the RB and the RB can use its higher insight to serve the LB's task of gradually spiritualizing the Earth.

This is a very simplistic way of putting it and can be misleading, so don't take it too rigidly. Like anything else, it should be explored with patience and energetic thinking for a greater understanding of how it fits into our stream of experience. Here is a nice animated summary of IM's work:





It is true that the physical brain is not the cause of these differentiated modes of cognition. Rather, it reflects back to us differentiated aspects of our normally invisible soul-spiritual structure that make use of the visible brain as their instrument. The latter is our sensory representation of a whole complex of spiritual forces that structure our life of thinking. I know it's difficult at first to avoid having materialistic conceptions about the physical body and its role in our spiritual life. It may be helpful to simply think of the physical processes as a symbol for soul-spiritual processes, which incarnate into the 'material' parts of the body to accomplish various tasks on the objective sensory plane. The head area is associated with thinking, the chest area with feeling, and the limbs with willing. Again, none of this should be taken too rigidly, because in reality, as we can see even at the normal sensory level, all the processes and parts are interwoven and interconnected.
"Most people would sooner regard themselves as a piece of lava in the moon than as an 'I'"
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Re: Esoteric knowledge for skeptics

Post by AshvinP »

Federica wrote: Sun Nov 19, 2023 11:04 am As I go through Steiner's "Esoteric Lessons", I would like to report an expression that has not been used here, as far as I remember. I want to report it since I believe it gives a simple and ready guideline toward what's really needed: "control of thoughts".

As repressive as it may sound, we need to control our thoughts. Sounds rough, but it's true. For me this idea has the merit to remind me at once of the two things that need happen. For one, developing thinking capacity, sure, but also soul improvement. They both happen via thinking, so I am reminded that, beyond concentration, imagination and all those noble, uplifting efforts towards "higher cognition", I need to work on my character just as much, or maybe more. For example in my case, on controlling judging attitudes and wrong thoughts that easily judge situations and behaviors.

And every time I catch myself scrolling through thoughts of that kind - with or without actual screen scrolling - I have to do my best to make those wrong thoughts right. I have to counteract the judging thought, the metabolic thought, or whatever other uncontrolled thought it was. I try to remember that every time I let my thoughts get sucked into those familiar cracks without opposing any resistance - I'm being manipulated by adversarial forces and their emissaries. And I try to also remember that this happens not just to my own detriment, but to the detriment of humanity as a whole. It's inevitable that it happens, Steiner says, but I think that having the idea "I have to keep thoughts under control" close, during the day, is a good way to maintain an active posture that helps with a sharper, keener vigilance on the constant risk of thought scrolling.

I think our everyday physical screen scrolling habit, so visible in literally all sorts of everyday situations, is the tip of the iceberg of a thinking habit of spiritless scrolling through thoughts. This has become so overpowering that it has now descended into physical manifestation as screen scrolling - the symbol of our threatening, uncontrolled thought habits.

Thanks Federica, these are great points. Actually, it relates to the LB-RB discussion as well, since one-sided LB thinking is exactly the kind that desires to hurriedly scroll through thoughts without taking much responsibility for controlling them.

Related to that, a tactic I have employed recently is to start my morning on the computer by switching the keyboard and the mouse, so I use the mouse (and the scrolling wheel) with my left hand for at least 15-30 min (I am right-handed). Incidentally, this may also harmonize the intellect more with RB functions, since the latter is associated with left-hand control (but I am not too sure about that). For one thing, it serves as an intentional gesture that I am committed to slowing down the scrolling intellect and doing things on the computer more purposefully. It also supports this intention by making it more difficult for me to indulge the temptation to scroll through things in a hurry, open a million different tabs, switch my focus between several different tasks in rapid succession, etc. In this way, we can start to find small yet important and creative ways of chipping away at our rushed and careless thinking tendencies.
"Most people would sooner regard themselves as a piece of lava in the moon than as an 'I'"
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