Prayer

[Güney27]

Thanks for sharing, Guney. Another good book on that is The Way of a Pilgrim (by an anonymous Russian peasant).

Thanks for sharing Ashvin.
I'm reading this book right now and it is very interesting.
It seems like the calling of Jesus christ has some magical power. The Pilgrim experience how his prayer begins to live in him. Would it be the same, if one says some other word instead of Christ? If it would be the same, would that imply that this prayer is really a concentration exercise or something like TM meditation or other eastern mantric exercise?


If one's interested in Christianity I would recommend to start with Omraam mikhaël aïvanhov or Peter deunov. I find there writings more approachable than steiners lectures about Christian themes.

Guney,

Prayers such as these can deeply influence the etheric body, which embodies the principle of repetition. If we look at the plant, for ex., this comes to outer expression in the repetitive patterns of leaves. In the animal, this can also come to outer expression in the repetitive pattern of bristles, scales, feathers, etc. It comes to much more inward expression in the human organism, and a portion of the etheric body is also liberated from structuring the physical body to structuring our life of thinking. We can observe that in our repetitive patterns of thoughts, our symmetrical logic, and so forth. These are all the repetitive habits still conditioned by Nature. Even our normal thought-life, which follows along with sense impressions and instinctive feelings, is conditioned by Nature. It is compelled into unfolding in repetitive forms that obey a strict linear logic.   

The spiritual path, on the other hand, provides a way for us to begin liberating our thinking from this natural conditioning and using the etheric principle of repetition at a higher level, to serve our creative and moral ideals. So the power is that of transforming the etheric body into Life Spirit through repetitive devotional prayers/exercises. Christ is a real being who, at one level, is the archetypal Life Spirit that is attracting our stream of becoming, toward whom we are transforming. He is the 'carrier wave' in which all our Earthly states of being are encompassed. "The purpose of the carrier is... to allow several carriers at different frequencies to share a common physical transmission medium." So our whole Earthly evolutionary stream - including all the differentiated kingdoms of Nature and streams of Culture - is unfolding within the shared ideal medium of the Christ being. In that sense, it certainly matters that we seek to attune our "I" organization with this Being who is its true essence. 

Of course, it's not only the word that matters but even more so the meaning we intend by the word. The word is simply a balance point for a totality of relations that center around the Inspiring forces of the Christ ideal. In that sense, it certainly helps to deepen our knowledge and wisdom surrounding the Christ being and the events he has accomplished for humanity and the Earth. That knowledge, when it penetrates from the head to the heart, can only enrich the power of the repetitive prayer, as the words become more substantial balancing points for the ideal relations they symbolize. You may be right many people with religious feelings should start with writers such as OAM and BD, and only gradually approach Steiner's more detailed discussion of the Christ events. Eventually, though, the latter will be very helpful in thickening our intuitive orientation to the Christ ideal.

Ashvin,

I tought that practices like this are there to "taim the dragon", I.e to get a control of one lower nature, or in other words, to work on the astral body with our "I".
A lot of Christian mystics seem to use such prayers to annihilate ones own will, to become worthy to connect with God's will.

In antroposophical terminology, they achieve the spirit-self.

[AshvinP]

Thanks for sharing Ashvin.
I'm reading this book right now and it is very interesting.
It seems like the calling of Jesus christ has some magical power. The Pilgrim experience how his prayer begins to live in him. Would it be the same, if one says some other word instead of Christ? If it would be the same, would that imply that this prayer is really a concentration exercise or something like TM meditation or other eastern mantric exercise?


If one's interested in Christianity I would recommend to start with Omraam mikhaël aïvanhov or Peter deunov. I find there writings more approachable than steiners lectures about Christian themes.

Guney,

Prayers such as these can deeply influence the etheric body, which embodies the principle of repetition. If we look at the plant, for ex., this comes to outer expression in the repetitive patterns of leaves. In the animal, this can also come to outer expression in the repetitive pattern of bristles, scales, feathers, etc. It comes to much more inward expression in the human organism, and a portion of the etheric body is also liberated from structuring the physical body to structuring our life of thinking. We can observe that in our repetitive patterns of thoughts, our symmetrical logic, and so forth. These are all the repetitive habits still conditioned by Nature. Even our normal thought-life, which follows along with sense impressions and instinctive feelings, is conditioned by Nature. It is compelled into unfolding in repetitive forms that obey a strict linear logic.   

The spiritual path, on the other hand, provides a way for us to begin liberating our thinking from this natural conditioning and using the etheric principle of repetition at a higher level, to serve our creative and moral ideals. So the power is that of transforming the etheric body into Life Spirit through repetitive devotional prayers/exercises. Christ is a real being who, at one level, is the archetypal Life Spirit that is attracting our stream of becoming, toward whom we are transforming. He is the 'carrier wave' in which all our Earthly states of being are encompassed. "The purpose of the carrier is... to allow several carriers at different frequencies to share a common physical transmission medium." So our whole Earthly evolutionary stream - including all the differentiated kingdoms of Nature and streams of Culture - is unfolding within the shared ideal medium of the Christ being. In that sense, it certainly matters that we seek to attune our "I" organization with this Being who is its true essence. 

Of course, it's not only the word that matters but even more so the meaning we intend by the word. The word is simply a balance point for a totality of relations that center around the Inspiring forces of the Christ ideal. In that sense, it certainly helps to deepen our knowledge and wisdom surrounding the Christ being and the events he has accomplished for humanity and the Earth. That knowledge, when it penetrates from the head to the heart, can only enrich the power of the repetitive prayer, as the words become more substantial balancing points for the ideal relations they symbolize. You may be right many people with religious feelings should start with writers such as OAM and BD, and only gradually approach Steiner's more detailed discussion of the Christ events. Eventually, though, the latter will be very helpful in thickening our intuitive orientation to the Christ ideal.

Ashvin,

I tought that practices like this are there to "taim the dragon", I.e to get a control of one lower nature, or in other words, to work on the astral body with our "I".
A lot of Christian mystics seem to use such prayers to annihilate ones own will, to become worthy to connect with God's will.

In antroposophical terminology, they achieve the spirit-self.

Right, and as Cleric has mentioned before, we shouldn't conceive the layers of consciousness as separate 'floors' of a building that we need to ascend one by one. Many of our spiritual efforts can simultaneously influence the sheaths, particularly the astral and the etheric. Actually, everything we experience and do first works its influences in the astral and, with sufficient intensity and devotion, can be imprinted as a more solid idea or habit in the etheric body. That is why Steiner mentions, for ex., that we only truly remember something we experienced in a lasting way once we have slept on it for a few nights and it has been imprinted into the etheric.

In general, you are correct that the primary task is to purify the astral body of its lower impulses. Praying for the insight, courage, and strength to carry out this work will clearly be a vital aspect of the process. Something like the Jesus prayer, however, is aimed to work even deeper than the insight needed for personal soul purification. It can work right into our life processes, into our physiology, and provide continual inspiration for the collective responsibilities and tasks ahead of us. To be honest, I have only examined the Jesus prayer from the outside so to speak. I haven't worked with it to any significant degree and, in a certain sense, I don't think I am prepared to yet. I think there is a good deal of soul purification work needed first. And, that way, we don't need to 'annihilate our will' in any mystical sense, but simply put it in voluntary service to the Divine Will as we receive the latter's intuitions and inspirations in full consciousness. It is a continual process of sacrificing pieces of our selfish personality that may culminate in a more pronounced mystical union with the Will, but we should always do it out of freedom and love, not a rushed expectation or gratification of our desires for higher experiences.

[Güney27]

Guney,

Prayers such as these can deeply influence the etheric body, which embodies the principle of repetition. If we look at the plant, for ex., this comes to outer expression in the repetitive patterns of leaves. In the animal, this can also come to outer expression in the repetitive pattern of bristles, scales, feathers, etc. It comes to much more inward expression in the human organism, and a portion of the etheric body is also liberated from structuring the physical body to structuring our life of thinking. We can observe that in our repetitive patterns of thoughts, our symmetrical logic, and so forth. These are all the repetitive habits still conditioned by Nature. Even our normal thought-life, which follows along with sense impressions and instinctive feelings, is conditioned by Nature. It is compelled into unfolding in repetitive forms that obey a strict linear logic.   

The spiritual path, on the other hand, provides a way for us to begin liberating our thinking from this natural conditioning and using the etheric principle of repetition at a higher level, to serve our creative and moral ideals. So the power is that of transforming the etheric body into Life Spirit through repetitive devotional prayers/exercises. Christ is a real being who, at one level, is the archetypal Life Spirit that is attracting our stream of becoming, toward whom we are transforming. He is the 'carrier wave' in which all our Earthly states of being are encompassed. "The purpose of the carrier is... to allow several carriers at different frequencies to share a common physical transmission medium." So our whole Earthly evolutionary stream - including all the differentiated kingdoms of Nature and streams of Culture - is unfolding within the shared ideal medium of the Christ being. In that sense, it certainly matters that we seek to attune our "I" organization with this Being who is its true essence. 

Of course, it's not only the word that matters but even more so the meaning we intend by the word. The word is simply a balance point for a totality of relations that center around the Inspiring forces of the Christ ideal. In that sense, it certainly helps to deepen our knowledge and wisdom surrounding the Christ being and the events he has accomplished for humanity and the Earth. That knowledge, when it penetrates from the head to the heart, can only enrich the power of the repetitive prayer, as the words become more substantial balancing points for the ideal relations they symbolize. You may be right many people with religious feelings should start with writers such as OAM and BD, and only gradually approach Steiner's more detailed discussion of the Christ events. Eventually, though, the latter will be very helpful in thickening our intuitive orientation to the Christ ideal.

Ashvin,

I tought that practices like this are there to "taim the dragon", I.e to get a control of one lower nature, or in other words, to work on the astral body with our "I".
A lot of Christian mystics seem to use such prayers to annihilate ones own will, to become worthy to connect with God's will.

In antroposophical terminology, they achieve the spirit-self.

Right, and as Cleric has mentioned before, we shouldn't conceive the layers of consciousness as separate 'floors' of a building that we need to ascend one by one. Many of our spiritual efforts can simultaneously influence the sheaths, particularly the astral and the etheric. Actually, everything we experience and do first works its influences in the astral and, with sufficient intensity and devotion, can be imprinted as a more solid idea or habit in the etheric body. That is why Steiner mentions, for ex., that we only truly remember something we experienced in a lasting way once we have slept on it for a few nights and it has been imprinted into the etheric.

In general, you are correct that the primary task is to purify the astral body of its lower impulses. Praying for the insight, courage, and strength to carry out this work will clearly be a vital aspect of the process. Something like the Jesus prayer, however, is aimed to work even deeper than the insight needed for personal soul purification. It can work right into our life processes, into our physiology, and provide continual inspiration for the collective responsibilities and tasks ahead of us. To be honest, I have only examined the Jesus prayer from the outside so to speak. I haven't worked with it to any significant degree and, in a certain sense, I don't think I am prepared to yet. I think there is a good deal of soul purification work needed first. And, that way, we don't need to 'annihilate our will' in any mystical sense, but simply put it in voluntary service to the Divine Will as we receive the latter's intuitions and inspirations in full consciousness. It is a continual process of sacrificing pieces of our selfish personality that may culminate in a more pronounced mystical union with the Will, but we should always do it out of freedom and love, not a rushed expectation or gratification of our desires for higher experiences.

Synchron to our conversation, I found this video



I know that people like these can have a weird "aura" at the first look, because of his clothing ect.
But he speaks about very important spiritual wisdoms.

Maybe he understands Christ in another way than steiner, but his videos help many people to evolve in a good direction.