Prayer

[Güney27]

Hello everyone.

Right now I'm reading a book from judith von halle about the Lord's Prayer.

From a conceptual point it is the most important christian prayer.
Christ himself gave us the prayer.
The people wich received the prayer had the experience of the Cosmic meaning from the Lord's Prayer.

Judith von halle explains how the wisdom of the whole evolution of humanity lies in the Lord's Prayer.


I have thought about it and now I'm arrived at the question of how higher beings up to the trinity experience the Prayer from their perspective.
How do higher beings experience our requests.
They probably won't perceive the words we speak internally the way we do ourselves (our as if someone calling them like we do call our friends).
However, they have to notice it, otherwise it would make sense to say the prayer.

The other question is how one should pray.
How do you manage to pray more deeply?
Concentration is important, but feelings must also be involved.

I listen to classical music every now and then to create a feeling of awe in myself, because I can't do it completely on my own (I've noticed that music has an extreme effect on my feelings, both positive and negative)


Post scriptum: Do higher beings pray?

[AshvinP]

Hello everyone.

Right now I'm reading a book from judith von halle about the Lord's Prayer.

From a conceptual point it is the most important christian prayer.
Christ himself gave us the prayer.
The people wich received the prayer had the experience of the Cosmic meaning from the Lord's Prayer.

Judith von halle explains how the wisdom of the whole evolution of humanity lies in the Lord's Prayer.


I have thought about it and now I'm arrived at the question of how higher beings up to the trinity experience the Prayer from their perspective.
How do higher beings experience our requests.
They probably won't perceive the words we speak internally the way we do ourselves (our as if someone calling them like we do call our friends).
However, they have to notice it, otherwise it would make sense to say the prayer.

The other question is how one should pray.
How do you manage to pray more deeply?
Concentration is important, but feelings must also be involved.

I listen to classical music every now and then to create a feeling of awe in myself, because I can't do it completely on my own (I've noticed that music has an extreme effect on my feelings, both positive and negative)


Post scriptum: Do higher beings pray?

Guney,

My understanding is that prayer, concentration, and normal thinking in general is what we call Divine activity when it is stepped down to the level of human consciousness that is tied to the sensory plane. Let's say we are thinking about what we are going to do this evening and preparing for it - perhaps we need to meet a friend for dinner. So now we are structuring our day so that our goals for the evening can also come to fruition - we need to get our studies/work done, do some errands, plan our meals, plan what to wear, etc. so that the evening dinner appointment is met and enjoyed properly. What are we doing here? In a sense, we are concentrating on a future ideal that can then attract our current state of being, i.e. transform it through certain intermediate states that will culminate in the ideal. In our thinking that goes beyond mere immediate sensory impressions, we are always establishing a state of resonance with our future potential states so ideas and insights can inflow into our current state that bridge the present actual with the future potential. Even when are thinking about our past states (memory), we do that to extract certain regularities of experience into principles that will help guide us towards the future potential. For ex. we will rely on thinking memory to extract the principle of how long it takes to get from our house to the restaurant so we can realize the potential state of 'dinner with friend'.

Concentration and prayer can be understood as much more intense and expansive examples of this same principle - instead of seeking to establish resonance with a purely personal future state like 'dinner with a friend', our thinking seeks to establish resonance with transpersonal ideals, like the state of 'purified soul that can act as a conscious and free agent of the Spirit in the World'. Through such resonance, we can inflow insights that allow our current state to be smoothly transformed toward the ideal. Notice how we are always dealing with constellations of spiritual beings. Even in our purely personal goals, it is easy to notice that their attainment depends on the cooperative activity of many other beings, for ex. your friend, the drivers on the road, the people who run the restaurant, the people who prepared the food, etc. If we also understand the very 'substance' through which we move in the World, including our own bodily and soul processes, as the manifestations of higher beings, then this becomes even more clear. So concentration and prayer simply allow us to take a much more conscious stance towards this reality of our unfolding stream of experience. It is a gesture of humility, gratitude, and openness in the face of mysterious forces that attract our current state of becoming towards shared ideals.

In this sense, we can say that all beings pray (and work), because that is the very process by which reality at all nested scales continues to evolve into its higher destiny. Clearly, the cognitive activity involved is vastly different as we leave the human corporeal state and ascend to noncorpreal states. The words-concepts and serial thoughts we experience are only possible in the brain-bound corporeal state. As soon as cross the threshold, such experiences are left behind for more holistic modes of cognition and prayer. The states of being transform much more fluidly and as a more direct reflection of resonant intentions. There aren't so many distractive detours between our current state and the potential state we aim for, as we experience on the corporeal plane. Through higher cognition via concentration and spiritual exercises, we can experience something of the perspectives from which the Divine prayer proceeds and attracts the current manifest state of the whole Earth to its higher potential states.

On the question of how to pray, I think Cleric has addressed that quite extensively. The structured colored sphere prayer that he shared recently has proven very helpful for me. I even try to do a mini-version throughout the day, simply imagining the spheres radiating out from my personal center through all the higher concentric Centers that my personal center is nested within, and sending blessings of peace, joy, wisdom, and harmony to all the beings of the karmic organism. Notice how such prayers also help us develop a feel for the 'zoomed out' intuitive context of our experience, in a similar way as to when we engage in the phenomenology of spiritual activity. It is the same underlying principle, except now we could say we are approaching it more from the pole of Love in contrast to the pole of Wisdom.

[Jonathan Österman]

Hello everyone.

Right now I'm reading a book from judith von halle about the Lord's Prayer.

From a conceptual point it is the most important christian prayer.
Christ himself gave us the prayer.
The people wich received the prayer had the experience of the Cosmic meaning from the Lord's Prayer.

Judith von halle explains how the wisdom of the whole evolution of humanity lies in the Lord's Prayer.


I have thought about it and now I'm arrived at the question of how higher beings up to the trinity experience the Prayer from their perspective.
How do higher beings experience our requests.
They probably won't perceive the words we speak internally the way we do ourselves (our as if someone calling them like we do call our friends).
However, they have to notice it, otherwise it would make sense to say the prayer.

The other question is how one should pray.
How do you manage to pray more deeply?
Concentration is important, but feelings must also be involved.

I listen to classical music every now and then to create a feeling of awe in myself, because I can't do it completely on my own (I've noticed that music has an extreme effect on my feelings, both positive and negative)


Post scriptum: Do higher beings pray?

Guney,

My understanding is that prayer, concentration, and normal thinking in general is what we call Divine activity when it is stepped down to the level of human consciousness that is tied to the sensory plane. Let's say we are thinking about what we are going to do this evening and preparing for it - perhaps we need to meet a friend for dinner. So now we are structuring our day so that our goals for the evening can also come to fruition - we need to get our studies/work done, do some errands, plan our meals, plan what to wear, etc. so that the evening dinner appointment is met and enjoyed properly. What are we doing here? In a sense, we are concentrating on a future ideal that can then attract our current state of being, i.e. transform it through certain intermediate states that will culminate in the ideal. In our thinking that goes beyond mere immediate sensory impressions, we are always establishing a state of resonance with our future potential states so ideas and insights can inflow into our current state that bridge the present actual with the future potential. Even when are thinking about our past states (memory), we do that to extract certain regularities of experience into principles that will help guide us towards the future potential. For ex. we will rely on thinking memory to extract the principle of how long it takes to get from our house to the restaurant so we can realize the potential state of 'dinner with friend'.

Concentration and prayer can be understood as much more intense and expansive examples of this same principle - instead of seeking to establish resonance with a purely personal future state like 'dinner with a friend', our thinking seeks to establish resonance with transpersonal ideals, like the state of 'purified soul that can act as a conscious and free agent of the Spirit in the World'. Through such resonance, we can inflow insights that allow our current state to be smoothly transformed toward the ideal. Notice how we are always dealing with constellations of spiritual beings. Even in our purely personal goals, it is easy to notice that their attainment depends on the cooperative activity of many other beings, for ex. your friend, the drivers on the road, the people who run the restaurant, the people who prepared the food, etc. If we also understand the very 'substance' through which we move in the World, including our own bodily and soul processes, as the manifestations of higher beings, then this becomes even more clear. So concentration and prayer simply allow us to take a much more conscious stance towards this reality of our unfolding stream of experience. It is a gesture of humility, gratitude, and openness in the face of mysterious forces that attract our current state of becoming towards shared ideals.

In this sense, we can say that all beings pray (and work), because that is the very process by which reality at all nested scales continues to evolve into its higher destiny. Clearly, the cognitive activity involved is vastly different as we leave the human corporeal state and ascend to noncorpreal states. The words-concepts and serial thoughts we experience are only possible in the brain-bound corporeal state. As soon as cross the threshold, such experiences are left behind for more holistic modes of cognition and prayer. The states of being transform much more fluidly and as a more direct reflection of resonant intentions. There aren't so many distractive detours between our current state and the potential state we aim for, as we experience on the corporeal plane. Through higher cognition via concentration and spiritual exercises, we can experience something of the perspectives from which the Divine prayer proceeds and attracts the current manifest state of the whole Earth to its higher potential states.

On the question of how to pray, I think Cleric has addressed that quite extensively. The structured colored sphere prayer that he shared recently has proven very helpful for me. I even try to do a mini-version throughout the day, simply imagining the spheres radiating out from my personal center through all the higher concentric Centers that my personal center is nested within, and sending blessings of peace, joy, wisdom, and harmony to all the beings of the karmic organism. Notice how such prayers also help us develop a feel for the 'zoomed out' intuitive context of our experience, in a similar way as to when we engage in the phenomenology of spiritual activity. It is the same underlying principle, except now we could say we are approaching it more from the pole of Love in contrast to the pole of Wisdom.

How much time per day do you spend in prayer, Ashwin?

[AshvinP]

How much time per day do you spend in prayer, Ashwin?

Not enough, but my time devoted to prayer is steadily increasing, and hopefully, the quality of concentration/attention is as well. There are indeed people who have learned to 'pray without ceasing'. They have internalized prayer at such a qualitative level that it has become a natural biological rhythm, like breathing or the pulsation of blood. They even continue to pray while asleep. I don't know if I will make it so far in this life, but I do know that every intention and thought we have during the day can gradually become more prayer-like through the inner path of strengthening intuitive activity.

PS - my name is NOT "Ashwin"

[Güney27]

I want to mention a book about the Jesus prayer.
There is a really good instruction on how to pray.
The book is called "the Jesus prayer" (Das Jesus Gebet in german).
It is really important to be in a pray-full state in the course of live.
It is like nourishment to the soul.

For everyone interested it is definitely a good point to start.

[Federica]

I want to mention a book about the Jesus prayer.
There is a really good instruction on how to pray.
The book is called "the Jesus prayer" (Das Jesus Gebet in german).
It is really important to be in a pray-full state in the course of live.
It is like nourishment to the soul.

For everyone interested it is definitely a good point to start.

Thanks, Güney. Who is the author? There are various books with that title.

[Güney27]

I want to mention a book about the Jesus prayer.
There is a really good instruction on how to pray.
The book is called "the Jesus prayer" (Das Jesus Gebet in german).
It is really important to be in a pray-full state in the course of live.
It is like nourishment to the soul.

For everyone interested it is definitely a good point to start.

Thanks, Güney. Who is the author? There are various books with that title.

Hi Federica,
The name in English is "On the Invocation of the Name of Jesus".
Sorry for the mistake.
I don't know if it is available right now.

[AshvinP]

I want to mention a book about the Jesus prayer.
There is a really good instruction on how to pray.
The book is called "the Jesus prayer" (Das Jesus Gebet in german).
It is really important to be in a pray-full state in the course of live.
It is like nourishment to the soul.

For everyone interested it is definitely a good point to start.

Thanks for sharing, Guney. Another good book on that is The Way of a Pilgrim (by an anonymous Russian peasant).

[Güney27]

I want to mention a book about the Jesus prayer.
There is a really good instruction on how to pray.
The book is called "the Jesus prayer" (Das Jesus Gebet in german).
It is really important to be in a pray-full state in the course of live.
It is like nourishment to the soul.

For everyone interested it is definitely a good point to start.

Thanks for sharing, Guney. Another good book on that is The Way of a Pilgrim (by an anonymous Russian peasant).

Thanks for sharing Ashvin.
I'm reading this book right now and it is very interesting.
It seems like the calling of Jesus christ has some magical power. The Pilgrim experience how his prayer begins to live in him. Would it be the same, if one says some other word instead of Christ? If it would be the same, would that imply that this prayer is really a concentration exercise or something like TM meditation or other eastern mantric exercise?


If one's interested in Christianity I would recommend to start with Omraam mikhaël aïvanhov or Peter deunov. I find there writings more approachable than steiners lectures about Christian themes.

[AshvinP]

I want to mention a book about the Jesus prayer.
There is a really good instruction on how to pray.
The book is called "the Jesus prayer" (Das Jesus Gebet in german).
It is really important to be in a pray-full state in the course of live.
It is like nourishment to the soul.

For everyone interested it is definitely a good point to start.

Thanks for sharing, Guney. Another good book on that is The Way of a Pilgrim (by an anonymous Russian peasant).

Thanks for sharing Ashvin.
I'm reading this book right now and it is very interesting.
It seems like the calling of Jesus christ has some magical power. The Pilgrim experience how his prayer begins to live in him. Would it be the same, if one says some other word instead of Christ? If it would be the same, would that imply that this prayer is really a concentration exercise or something like TM meditation or other eastern mantric exercise?


If one's interested in Christianity I would recommend to start with Omraam mikhaël aïvanhov or Peter deunov. I find there writings more approachable than steiners lectures about Christian themes.

Guney,

Prayers such as these can deeply influence the etheric body, which embodies the principle of repetition. If we look at the plant, for ex., this comes to outer expression in the repetitive patterns of leaves. In the animal, this can also come to outer expression in the repetitive pattern of bristles, scales, feathers, etc. It comes to much more inward expression in the human organism, and a portion of the etheric body is also liberated from structuring the physical body to structuring our life of thinking. We can observe that in our repetitive patterns of thoughts, our symmetrical logic, and so forth. These are all the repetitive habits still conditioned by Nature. Even our normal thought-life, which follows along with sense impressions and instinctive feelings, is conditioned by Nature. It is compelled into unfolding in repetitive forms that obey a strict linear logic.   

The spiritual path, on the other hand, provides a way for us to begin liberating our thinking from this natural conditioning and using the etheric principle of repetition at a higher level, to serve our creative and moral ideals. So the power is that of transforming the etheric body into Life Spirit through repetitive devotional prayers/exercises. Christ is a real being who, at one level, is the archetypal Life Spirit that is attracting our stream of becoming, toward whom we are transforming. He is the 'carrier wave' in which all our Earthly states of being are encompassed. "The purpose of the carrier is... to allow several carriers at different frequencies to share a common physical transmission medium." So our whole Earthly evolutionary stream - including all the differentiated kingdoms of Nature and streams of Culture - is unfolding within the shared ideal medium of the Christ being. In that sense, it certainly matters that we seek to attune our "I" organization with this Being who is its true essence. 

Of course, it's not only the word that matters but even more so the meaning we intend by the word. The word is simply a balance point for a totality of relations that center around the Inspiring forces of the Christ ideal. In that sense, it certainly helps to deepen our knowledge and wisdom surrounding the Christ being and the events he has accomplished for humanity and the Earth. That knowledge, when it penetrates from the head to the heart, can only enrich the power of the repetitive prayer, as the words become more substantial balancing points for the ideal relations they symbolize. You may be right many people with religious feelings should start with writers such as OAM and BD, and only gradually approach Steiner's more detailed discussion of the Christ events. Eventually, though, the latter will be very helpful in thickening our intuitive orientation to the Christ ideal.