Your brain on AYAHUASCA

[lorenzop]

It is the same principle with the stages after death. The Here-and-Now cannot be fully appreciated and enjoyed unless it is experienced within the holistic context that gives it meaning. The very fact that you are still on this forum testifies to this reality - you know there is something deeper to be explored within the Here-and-Now and you are not satisfied with the latter 'as it is'. This is nothing to be ashamed of. If we all became satisfied with the 'now' as it is, all life would die out and evolution would cease. People should be curious about the most certain event of their lives and the lives of everyone they know - death. They should balk at the idea that death should act as some absolute barrier to experience. Yet because of ingrained habits of thinking that imagines discontinuities everywhere, most don't know where to turn for concrete answers. Cleric provided a simple and effective image before:

If someone comes along with a system to investigate the after-death, I'll take a look at it. I'm not motivated to develop such a system for myself - I feel there's more interesting subjects then what happens after we die.

[Jonathan Österman]

Lorenzo, do you blindly believe Ashwin and Cleric ?

Do you believe them that their above schematics of spiritual reality are essentially complete and correct?

How could they possibly know that for sure?
Can they prove it?
Or, at least, can they produce any tiny little piece of credible evidence of it?

Because to me, the above picture of spiritual reality does not look right.
Not even close. There is something very wrong with it.

Lorenzo, if you participate in an authentic Ayahuasca ceremony, then you will see it directly, for yourself, like everyone else has seen and agreed, that spiritual reality looks like the following.

Here you can see first-hand evidence:

















And the following is the image of reality from a bad LSD trip:

[Güney27]

Lorenzo, do you blindly believe Ashwin and Cleric ?

Do you believe them that their above schematics of spiritual reality are essentially complete and correct?

How could they possibly know that for sure?
Can they prove it?
Or, at least, can they produce any tiny little piece of credible evidence of it?

Because to me, the above picture of spiritual reality does not look right.
Not even close. There is something very wrong with it.

Lorenzo, if you participate in an authentic Ayahuasca ceremony, then you will see it directly, for yourself, like everyone else has seen and agreed, that spiritual reality looks like the following.

Here you can see first-hand evidence:

















And the following is the image of reality from a bad LSD trip:

Do you think that spiritual reality is just another plane, with earthly, visual-like pictures, somewhere behind the veil?

Or is it something that gives rise to the activity wich structures the world content (thinking)?

Cleric and Ashvin try to explain something non sensory, and must do it in some form.
So they need pictures for illustration something ( certain intuition).
They don't try to paint abstract Phantasie pictures.

Every scientist use such pictures.
Think of an atom. Do they really look like the pictures we get presented in school?
Or do they try to give a non scientist some basic intuition of something?

[Jonathan Österman]

Cleric and Ashwin try to explain something non sensory, and must do it in some form. So they need pictures for illustration something ( certain intuition).

Güney27, please let me clarify that the above Ayahuasca pictures are pictures of non-sensory spiritual reality for the purpose of illustrating certain intuition about something that gives rise to the activity which structures the world content from behind the total of 42 veils, pseudo-veils, and strong magic veils: viewtopic.php?t=960&start=9

[Güney27]

Cleric and Ashwin try to explain something non sensory, and must do it in some form. So they need pictures for illustration something ( certain intuition).

Güney27, please let me clarify that the above Ayahuasca pictures are pictures of non-sensory spiritual reality for the purpose of illustrating certain intuition about something that gives rise to the activity which structures the world content from behind the total of 42 veils, pseudo-veils, and strong magic veils: viewtopic.php?t=960&start=9

What is it, that this type of psychedelic visuals illustrate?

Did you ever try psychedelics?

[AshvinP]

It is the same principle with the stages after death. The Here-and-Now cannot be fully appreciated and enjoyed unless it is experienced within the holistic context that gives it meaning. The very fact that you are still on this forum testifies to this reality - you know there is something deeper to be explored within the Here-and-Now and you are not satisfied with the latter 'as it is'. This is nothing to be ashamed of. If we all became satisfied with the 'now' as it is, all life would die out and evolution would cease. People should be curious about the most certain event of their lives and the lives of everyone they know - death. They should balk at the idea that death should act as some absolute barrier to experience. Yet because of ingrained habits of thinking that imagines discontinuities everywhere, most don't know where to turn for concrete answers. Cleric provided a simple and effective image before:

If someone comes along with a system to investigate the after-death, I'll take a look at it. I'm not motivated to develop such a system for myself - I feel there's more interesting subjects then what happens after we die.

The path to investigate the after-death must be taken up by the individual in complete freedom. There is no 'system' that can impart this Wisdom because the after-death stages reside within each of us, in the deeper meaningful patterns of our inner life.

However, the conceptual tools, methods, and exercises for exploring this Kingdom within us has been given in many, many different places, including this forum. I don't think one would need to venture very far beyond this forum to make concrete progress. But as it has been spoken before, the initial stages are not flashy and shiny visuals. We won't be lifted into the 'Cosmic expanses' to passively contemplate psychedelic patterns and strange voices that remain inexplicable and irrelevant to the normal stream of experience.

"And he said, Whereunto shall we liken the kingdom of God? or with what comparison shall we compare it? It is like a grain of mustard seed, which, when it is sown in the earth, is less than all the seeds that be in the earth: But when it is sown, it groweth up, and becometh greater than all herbs, and shooteth out great branches; so that the fowls of the air may lodge under the shadow of it."

The entrance to this Kingdom begins in the portal of thinking concentration, in our laser-like focus on the humble thought-image. We must be willing to experience our intimate activity which we normally use to hammer out our theories, models, opinions, and speculations. We have to stop hammering for a while so the more subtle movements of our spirit, which are always present, can shine through and begin irradiating our stream of experience.

[Jonathan Österman]

Cleric and Ashwin try to explain something non sensory, and must do it in some form. So they need pictures for illustration something ( certain intuition).

Güney27, please let me clarify that the above Ayahuasca pictures are pictures of non-sensory spiritual reality for the purpose of illustrating certain intuition about something that gives rise to the activity which structures the world content from behind the total of 42 veils, pseudo-veils, and strong magic veils: viewtopic.php?t=960&start=9

What is it, that this type of psychedelic visuals illustrate?

What is it that this type of psychedelic visuals illustrate, you ask me again.
OK.

Well, let me repeat what I just wrote to you above, that this type of psychedelic visuals illustrate non-sensory spiritual reality.

[Cleric K]

Because to me, the above picture of spiritual reality does not look right.
Not even close. There is something very wrong with it.

Lorenzo, if you participate in an authentic Ayahuasca ceremony, then you will see it directly, for yourself, like everyone else has seen and agreed, that spiritual reality looks like the following.

Jon, there's a simple misconception here. What you call 'spiritual reality' is falling from one experience of Maya into another.

Imagine a population where everyone is blindfolded since birth. Then one persons finds a way to remove the blindfold and is flooded with color experiences. Then he says: "Wow, I now see what reality is in truth!"

Alas, these experiences are just a part of the phenomenal spectrum that the person hasn't been familiar with. Similarly, if a person hears for the first time he may say "Wow, I now hear what reality is in truth!".

The problem is twofold. Not only that these new experiences are still Maya (what makes them Maya is our mistake to take them for the full reality, it's not that the sensations aren't real) but they are also inherently cacophonic. This is something well known in neuroscience. There are instances of people born blind who had sight restoring operations much later in life. However, as we know, when certain abilities are not developed on time, it becomes difficult, if not impossible, to make up for them after the brain has lost its initial plasticity. For this reason, people with sight restoring operations in general can integrate the new sensations in a very limited way. Some are only aware of floods of colors, others experience shapes but can't interpret them, others can't grasp depth and so on.

The situation is similar in the case of psychedelics. The greatest folly is to suggest that someone has to take the pill and will be able to see reality. This works in the Matrix because both the virtual and the real world are of the same sensory nature - we just switch from one source of perceptions to another. But things are vastly different when we have to deal with the spiritual depth of the Cosmos.

The psychedelic state loosens the coupling between the physical and the etheric body. What we experience in this way however, is simply whatever our intellectual habits can make out of the subtler sensations. We experience soul imagery, we feel that it bubbles on the waves of deeper strata of reality, yet our physical habits of cognition continuously collapse the images into visual-like patterns.

Just like the blind person after operation doesn't experience an orderly visual screen but only grasps whatever he can make out of the novel sensations, so the person who has jumped into the etheric streams only grasps whatever his sensory and intellectual capabilities can make out.

Taking the sensory spectrum as the full reality is Maya. But taking the disorganized etheric imagery for reality is Maya squared²! After all, the first kind of Maya at least has been wisely refined in the course of evolution such that it can give us proper orientation within the implicit order of reality - even if this intuitive orientation is somewhat indirect. But taking the fragmented etheric spectrum for 'what spiritual reality is', is much more problematic because we completely blind ourselves for the fact that the experience has such a nature only because our spiritual organization is not yet musically attuned. In other words, we're like a person who after the operation sees some inexplicable color shapes and takes them for 'what reality is', while being completely ignorant that the experience is entirely an artifact of his brain lacking the proper structures to organize the stimuli.

It is true that when it comes to the development of our subtle organization, things certainly don't get easier with age. If we have lived a completely materialistic life until 50 and then decided to set on a path of inner development, obviously we can't expect the same results as someone who has started in their youth. But nevertheless, things are not as hopeless as they are in regards to our physical organization. As long as we have retained some plasticity and mobility of our thinking and feeling life, it is never too late to set on the path of inner transformation.

As a whole, both the sensory and the etheric spectrums will be Maya as long as we believe that we see 'what reality is' in them. But reality can be known only when we unite with the spiritual intents that drive the metamorphoses of the phenomenal World state. In that sense, these spectrums are like a script, like symbolic glyphs that reflect the deeper purely ideal life of the spirit - the Word. We fall into Maya when we are mesmerized by the shapes and colors of the glyphs, while being completely oblivious that they are only the precipitation of the ideal life.

So your initial objection is that spiritual reality doesn't 'look like' the crude scheme. But this scheme doesn't aim to replicate the phenomenal shape of our conscious experience. It is meant as a recipe to set our spiritual being in motion. It is the experience of these self-willed inner movements that the scheme invites us to engage in. In the degrees of freedom that we explore through these movements we awaken to a higher aspect of our spiritual being. And of course, these inner experiences don't 'look like' the scheme. Yet from within them the scheme makes perfect sense. Similarly, the visual shape of the word 'Love' doesn't look anything like the experience of Love. Yet for one who knows how to read the letters are a symbolic pointer to the experience.

[Güney27]

Güney27, please let me clarify that the above Ayahuasca pictures are pictures of non-sensory spiritual reality for the purpose of illustrating certain intuition about something that gives rise to the activity which structures the world content from behind the total of 42 veils, pseudo-veils, and strong magic veils: viewtopic.php?t=960&start=9

What is it, that this type of psychedelic visuals illustrate?

What is it that this type of psychedelic visuals illustrate, you ask me again.
OK.

Well, let me repeat what I just wrote to you above, that this type of psychedelic visuals illustrate non-sensory spiritual reality.

Let me ask it in another way.
What is the underlying meaning which this pictures express?

They illustrate nothing more than sensory like pictures of hallucination.


Cleric and Ashvin don't use pictures and say "this is how spiritual reality looks like", they use this pictures to gave us a new perspective to look at things.


I think you took them as literal.

[Jonathan Österman]

Let me ask it in another way.

What is the underlying meaning which this pictures express?

The above pictures of directly personally experienced Ayahuasca spiritual visions express the underlying meaning of non-sensory spiritual reality.