Thinking about death

[Güney27]

Hey everyone,

as everybody I'm thinking about death a lot.
It is one of the main questions of humankind.
How should one think about death?
When we see a person die, we see that person losing consciousness and the body disintegrating over time.
So the only thing you learn about the death process is from the third perspective.
But how can you think about the death process from your own perspective, as if you were experiencing it?
I'm not interested in thinking about any statements made by occult teachers.

When we talk about death as it appears to us, it looks as if it is the end of all consciousness.
But how about we think about death from the perspective mentioned above and approach its secrets in this way.

I think this is an interesting and important topic, considering how many people fear death (by that I mean myself too)

[Federica]

Hey everyone,

as everybody I'm thinking about death a lot.
It is one of the main questions of humankind.
How should one think about death?
When we see a person die, we see that person losing consciousness and the body disintegrating over time.
So the only thing you learn about the death process is from the third perspective.
But how can you think about the death process from your own perspective, as if you were experiencing it?
I'm not interested in thinking about any statements made by occult teachers.

When we talk about death as it appears to us, it looks as if it is the end of all consciousness.
But how about we think about death from the perspective mentioned above and approach its secrets in this way.

I think this is an interesting and important topic, considering how many people fear death (by that I mean myself too)

Hey Güney,

When you train yourself, like you are doing, to experience cognitive states that are less and less dependent on the senses, what you are experiencing - despite that fact that you currently have a physical sheath - is that same reality one finds oneself immersed in after passing the threshold of physical death.

In other words, you are training yourself to experience a state of quasi-death. You still have a body, but you manage to do as if you hadn't it (after enough development). The whole point of developing the spiritual organs in this way is precisely to prepare in awareness for that experience, that would otherwise submerge the individual, once devoid of the anchoring point for the sense of selfhood provided by the physical body.

In this way, the incarnated and the disincarnated modes of existence can be bridged under the uninterrupted self-knowledge of the higher self, which means knowledge of its interconnectedness with the moltitude of idea-beings that constitute reality. So death is similar to a delivery, since it's the moment when the (re)birth of the individual into the spiritual worlds is completed. By 'testing' the experience while still incarnated, one is preparing a luminous and intentional birth of the Self into the spiritual worlds, through the event of death/birth - depending on which side of the threshold you look at it from. Does it make sense?

PS: on a different note - thanks so much to you and Ashvin for mentioning your lyre harp order! I was at a loss to find the right Christmas gift idea for a boy, and now I have it

[tjssailor]

As someone who's gone through intense fear of death episodes including panic attacks, a deep study of NDEs helped get me through.

Eventually you come to the realization that I can't see you and you can't see me right now because consciousness cannot be seen or detected in any way.

So how could we say what happens to it at death?

When you really ponder this question: Why am I specifically I and you specifically you ? comes another realization that all forms of materialism fail at even attempting to answer the question of our existence.

At the highest levels of resolution matter is a sea of massless bosons traveling at the speed of light. In other words there is no substance to anything.

Having a spiritual or mystical experience can clue us in to the fact that there is more going on then meets the eye. Read the book "Silicon" where Fredrico Fagin, the inventor of the micro-processor. had his own awakening and turned from technology to studying consciousness.

[lorenzop]

I have never spent much time thinking about death, and what might happen after . . . it's never been a big concern for me.
There are theories, guesses and hunches, and plenty of scriptural references about death, and we can find people that believe each and every possibility.
A few possibilities:
(1) We die and that's it. There is no post death. This is the outcome predicted by Materialism and some versions of Idealism.
(2) some flavor of reincarnation . . . some flavors of reincarnation are effectively are like (1) above in that very little of 'us' actually survives to next life.
(3) the Judeo\Christian\Islam belief; after death there is a judgement, and as a result of this judgement one spends an eternity in hell or heaven.

For myself, of the above, (3) is the least intuitive, least believable.

I would lean towards what happens after death is what we want to happen . . . and we likely don't know what we want. I think I read somewhere that Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj once answered "The dream continues".

[Federica]

I have never spent much time thinking about death, and what might happen after . . . it's never been a big concern for me.
There are theories, guesses and hunches, and plenty of scriptural references about death, and we can find people that believe each and every possibility.
A few possibilities:
(1) We die and that's it. There is no post death. This is the outcome predicted by Materialism and some versions of Idealism.
(2) some flavor of reincarnation . . . some flavors of reincarnation are effectively are like (1) above in that very little of 'us' actually survives to next life.
(3) the Judeo\Christian\Islam belief; after death there is a judgement, and as a result of this judgement one spends an eternity in hell or heaven.

For myself, of the above, (3) is the least intuitive, least believable.

I would lean towards what happens after death is what we want to happen . . . and we likely don't know what we want. I think I read somewhere that Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj once answered "The dream continues".

Lorenzo, a question for you:

Since your position is always "these are theories, guesses and hunches" and there is basically no way to know, and the best one can do is to lean towards their preferred scenario, why do you regularly log in here? I mean, if I was you, with your philosophy, I would go out there and live my life to the fullest, carpe diem, enjoy every moment for what it can give you, without overthinking anything.

Don't you think there is something in your behavior (your participation here, your interest in debating unsolvable philosophical questions) that doesn't match your philosophy?

[Federica]

As someone who's gone through intense fear of death episodes including panic attacks, a deep study of NDEs helped get me through.

Eventually you come to the realization that I can't see you and you can't see me right now because consciousness cannot be seen or detected in any way.

So how could we say what happens to it at death?

When you really ponder this question: Why am I specifically I and you specifically you ? comes another realization that all forms of materialism fail at even attempting to answer the question of our existence.

At the highest levels of resolution matter is a sea of massless bosons traveling at the speed of light. In other words there is no substance to anything.

Having a spiritual or mystical experience can clue us in to the fact that there is more going on then meets the eye. Read the book "Silicon" where Fredrico Fagin, the inventor of the micro-processor. had his own awakening and turned from technology to studying consciousness.

Hej tjssailor,

Reading your reply, a question comes to mind. Since you have come to the realization that consciousness is unfathomable and undetectable in any way, in which sense do you mean that studying NDEs has been helpful?

[lorenzop]

Lorenzo, a question for you:

Since your position is always "these are theories, guesses and hunches" and there is basically no way to know, and the best one can do is to lean towards their preferred scenario, why do you regularly log in here? I mean, if I was you, with your philosophy, I would go out there and live my life to the fullest, carpe diem, enjoy every moment for what it can give you, without overthinking anything.

Don't you think there is something in your behavior (your participation here, your interest in debating unsolvable philosophical questions) that doesn't match your philosophy?

I didn't say or suggest most of the above - perhaps you are projecting?

Do you have something to offer re death?

[Federica]

Lorenzo, a question for you:

Since your position is always "these are theories, guesses and hunches" and there is basically no way to know, and the best one can do is to lean towards their preferred scenario, why do you regularly log in here? I mean, if I was you, with your philosophy, I would go out there and live my life to the fullest, carpe diem, enjoy every moment for what it can give you, without overthinking anything.

Don't you think there is something in your behavior (your participation here, your interest in debating unsolvable philosophical questions) that doesn't match your philosophy?

I didn't say or suggest most of the above - perhaps you are projecting?

I'm not projecting, Lorenzo, I'm reading:

There are theories, guesses and hunches... A few possibilities:
(1) ... (2) ... (3).....

I would lean towards what happens after death is what we want to happen

Christianity doesn't float my boat (not my preference)

the content that you reference; divine will\purpose\meaning, hierarchy of person-beings, etc. . . . it's not my thing. I don't like to wear jeans or socks that are too tight . . . . it's a preference thing

I currently have zero interest in Earthly Kingdoms or Cosmic Bodies. I regard these as a personal preference or option

I'm suggesting that having an interest/proficiency in spiritual objects/being/powers is a personal preference

Etcetera, etcetera...

Do you have something to offer re death?

Yes! That was the first comment in this thread.

[lorenzop]

Federica - I didn't say no one knows, nor did I say it can't be known (what happens after death)

Looks like you favor some sort of reincarnation?

[Güney27]

Hey everyone,

as everybody I'm thinking about death a lot.
It is one of the main questions of humankind.
How should one think about death?
When we see a person die, we see that person losing consciousness and the body disintegrating over time.
So the only thing you learn about the death process is from the third perspective.
But how can you think about the death process from your own perspective, as if you were experiencing it?
I'm not interested in thinking about any statements made by occult teachers.

When we talk about death as it appears to us, it looks as if it is the end of all consciousness.
But how about we think about death from the perspective mentioned above and approach its secrets in this way.

I think this is an interesting and important topic, considering how many people fear death (by that I mean myself too)

Hey Güney,

When you train yourself, like you are doing, to experience cognitive states that are less and less dependent on the senses, what you are experiencing - despite that fact that you currently have a physical sheath - is that same reality one finds oneself immersed in after passing the threshold of physical death.

In other words, you are training yourself to experience a state of quasi-death. You still have a body, but you manage to do as if you hadn't it (after enough development). The whole point of developing the spiritual organs in this way is precisely to prepare in awareness for that experience, that would otherwise submerge the individual, once devoid of the anchoring point for the sense of selfhood provided by the physical body.

In this way, the incarnated and the disincarnated modes of existence can be bridged under the uninterrupted self-knowledge of the higher self, which means knowledge of its interconnectedness with the moltitude of idea-beings that constitute reality. So death is similar to a delivery, since it's the moment when the (re)birth of the individual into the spiritual worlds is completed. By 'testing' the experience while still incarnated, one is preparing a luminous and intentional birth of the Self into the spiritual worlds, through the event of death/birth - depending on which side of the threshold you look at it from. Does it make sense?

PS: on a different note - thanks so much to you and Ashvin for mentioning your lyre harp order! I was at a loss to find the right Christmas gift idea for a boy, and now I have it

Federica
I see your point and your right.

But right now I experience in concentration an increasingly intensity of my thoughts, it's like the inner voice becomes louder and more intense.
If I concentrate long enough, there is some thing like forgetting that I have a body.

In prayer it's diferrent, it's like concentrating in a more feeling full way.

How do you experience the states of concentration and prayer ?